2007 Awards - Entry Luxury

[nickdrinkwater]

Would you consider the 911 to look dated?  Its shape has been around for 40 years. 

The 911 is an iconic design and the fact that it has looked the same for so long is one of the reasons why it so successful.

I wouldn't call the A4 an iconic design.

[ro51092]

The 911 is an iconic design and the fact that it has looked the same for so long is one of the reasons why it so successful.

I wouldn't call the A4 an iconic design.

Fuck you. 

[nickdrinkwater]

At least I kept the Porsche in you happy 

[Raza]

Yes.

What about the current Mustang?

[Raza]

The 911 is an iconic design and the fact that it has looked the same for so long is one of the reasons why it so successful.

I wouldn't call the A4 an iconic design.

My disagreement here is that subtle changes (B6 to B7) tend to keep the cars from looking dated.  When companies go through drastic design changes (such as BMW or Cadillac), that tends to date the looks.  The forthcoming crop of Mercedes cars will look dated soon as well. 

[SVT666]

What about the current Mustang?

Porsche has done a fantastic job of keeping the 911 shape looking current for 40 years.? My problem with the shape is that every 911 in 40 yearrs has had the same shape...although more modern with every rendition.? The Mustang hasn't looked the same for 40 years.  I couldn't spend $100,000 on a car that most people can't differentiate from a 20 year old example of the same car.

[Raza]

Porsche has done a fantastic job of keeping the 911 shape looking current for 40 years.? My problem with the shape is that every 911 in 40 yearrs has had the same shape...although more modern with every rendition.? The Mustang hasn't looked the same for 40 years.? I couldn't spend $100,000 on a car that most people can't differentiate from a 20 year old example of the same car.

But isn't going retro making a car dated on purpose?

[SVT666]

But isn't going retro making a car dated on purpose?

The difference is that the Mustang doesn't look like all the Mustangs that came before it.  The 911 does.

[JYODER240]

Porsche has done a fantastic job of keeping the 911 shape looking current for 40 years.? My problem with the shape is that every 911 in 40 yearrs has had the same shape...although more modern with every rendition.? The Mustang hasn't looked the same for 40 years.? I couldn't spend $100,000 on a car that most people can't differentiate from a 20 year old example of the same car.

It's supposed too. The design is supposed to be evolutionary. It's supposed to have a cohesiveness to it so that when people see it they know it is a 911. The same way current Audis look alike, and Mercedes look alike, and Cadillacs look alike, etc. Chevy has done the same with the Vette only not as well.

and please are you telling me that most people can't tell these two apart

[heelntoe]

Porsche has done a fantastic job of keeping the 911 shape looking current for 40 years.  My problem with the shape is that every 911 in 40 yearrs has had the same shape...although more modern with every rendition.  The Mustang hasn't looked the same for 40 years.  I couldn't spend $100,000 on a car that most people can't differentiate from a 20 year old example of the same car.

the thing with that is that even if someone mistook the car for a 40 year old one, a 40 year old porsche is just as awesome if not awesommer.

[Raza]

The difference is that the Mustang doesn't look like all the Mustangs that came before it.? The 911 does.

Since when does looking dated mean it bears resemblance to other cars in its evolutionary line?  What I take it to mean is that it looks like it came from an era that has passed.

[SVT666]

Since when does looking dated mean it bears resemblance to other cars in its evolutionary line?? What I take it to mean is that it looks like it came from an era that has passed.

Design is subjective.  I find it looks dated.  You don't.  Big deal.  Any time someone says something you don't like about a Porsche it's the end of the freakin world.

[Raza]

Design is subjective.? I find it looks dated.? You don't.? Big deal.? Any time someone says something you don't like about a Porsche it's the end of the freakin world.

Design's actually not subjective, but that's another issue.

I honestly think we're arguing over semantics here.  I think you think you think it looks dated.  I think dated is the wrong word. 

[SVT666]

You don't think that a car can be beautiful to one person and not to another?

[Raza]

You don't think that a car can be beautiful to one person and not to another?

Two things go into the way a car looks:

Design and styling.

Design is not subjective. 

Styling is, though.  That's the difference. 

Take two cars as an example; the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300.  They have the exact same design.  But the styling is different.  I hate the 300, but I love the Charger.  But that comes down to styling, not design, since the proportions are wrong.  It's mostly a semantic issue, though. 

[SVT666]

Two things go into the way a car looks:

Design and styling.

Design is not subjective.?

Styling is, though.? That's the difference.?

Take two cars as an example; the Dodge Charger and the Chrysler 300.? They have the exact same design.? But the styling is different.? I hate the 300, but I love the Charger.? But that comes down to styling, not design, since the proportions are wrong.? It's mostly a semantic issue, though.?

You know what I meant.  Semantics can be a killer.

[Raza]

You know what I meant.? Semantics can be a killer.

Yeah, but you know I'm pretty strict about that shit.

[nickdrinkwater]

My disagreement here is that subtle changes (B6 to B7) tend to keep the cars from looking dated.  When companies go through drastic design changes (such as BMW or Cadillac), that tends to date the looks.  The forthcoming crop of Mercedes cars will look dated soon as well. 

I agree with you.  Evolution is definitely better than revolution, and yeah I do think that the latest Mercs will date quickly.  However, I don't think the A4 has evolved quite enough over recent years - they can still evolve from the current shape, just a little bit more significantly - like the Audi 80 - Audi A4 for example.  The current A4 evolution has just been a little to subtle.

[MexicoCityM3]

3er. In any trim. Big surprise.