Flashing High Beams for Speed Trap Warnings

[BartsSVO]

I flash my headlights to warn of speed traps all the time. Why? Because most places I see cops is where enforcement is NOT needed for safety, but is rather to exploit an under-posted speed limit or an inadequately posted drop in the speed limit (like the 4 lane that runs a couple of miles from my house, I had been driving on it for 6+ months and never noticed it went down to 45 until my wife pointed it out to me one night...the new speed limit sign is about 2/3rds the size of all the other signs on the road).

Start enforcing the limit on a regular basis AWAY from a 55-65 mph highway and I'll beleive that its not all about looking good on a review or a town making extra money to build a new community center.

[bing_oh]

The second is that lower speed limits translate to lower driving speeds that mitigate the physics of crashes.? Again, the physics are not in dispute.? However, the reason we have all those crumple zones and bumpers, airbags, padded interiors, and seatbelts is so that we can travel faster because faster has a very real value.

You have more confidence in vehicle safety technology than I do, that's for sure. I don't imagine that anything I say will change your opinion one iota, but I wouldn't rely too heavily on that technology to save you in a serious high-speed crash. Technology has its limits, and I've seen what happens when those "high tech innovations" come face-to-face with physics. Physics remains but the technology tends to be shredded and scattered across a corn field.

[James Young]

Could you tell me what insurance company gives out free radar units?

GEICO, State Farm, Allstate.  Also IIHS, the tax-exempt lob bying arm of the insurance industry.

[bing_oh]

GEICO, State Farm, Allstate.? Also IIHS, the tax-exempt lob bying arm of the insurance industry.

Once again, I can locate absolutely no unbiased information that indicates that any of these insurance companies or the IIHS regularly donate speed measurement devices to police agencies. The only mention of this supposed practice shows up on "motorists rights" sites that tell you how to (supposedly) get out of a ticket and give you the contact info for traffic attornies and places like buyradardetectors.com.

At this point, I'm not believing this at all. It sounds like some sort of giant anti-driver conspiracy theory between the cops and the insurance companies. Apparently, you guys don't realize that we probably hate the insurance companies more than you do! They're the bastards that keep making our crash reports longer, more complicated, and more time-consuming! Plus, we pay insurance premiums just like everybody else...

[the nameless one]

Roads are roads.? The 85th and 95th percentile speeds automatically adjust for the road type.? I think the bigger issue is that you are just obsessively opposed to reasonable speeds.

Roads are NOT "just roads". There are plenty of non-Interstate roads that can clearly not handle anywhere near the speeds you'd like to drive on them. Your definition of "reasonable speeds" would be downright reckless around here. If western states with flat open roads wants to up the speed limit a few MPH, which they've done in the past few years..then fine. To say there should be NO speed limit though? Sorry, can't agree there.


[ quote]
Not self-centered at all since everybody? benefits from rational laws.

Doing away with speed limits does not constitute a "rational law".

[James Young]

Once again, I can locate absolutely no unbiased information that indicates that any of these insurance companies or the IIHS regularly donate speed measurement devices to police agencies. The only mention of this supposed practice shows up on "motorists rights" sites that tell you how to (supposedly) get out of a ticket and give you the contact info for traffic attornies and places like buyradardetectors.com.

At this point, I'm not believing this at all. It sounds like some sort of giant anti-driver conspiracy theory between the cops and the insurance companies. Apparently, you guys don't realize that we probably hate the insurance companies more than you do! They're the bastards that keep making our crash reports longer, more complicated, and more time-consuming! Plus, we pay insurance premiums just like everybody else...

They used to publicize such donations as a PR gimmick, their contribution to highway traffic safety.  Now, they obfuscate and sidestep.

Of course, we can all believe what we want, including Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and truth in advertising.  The economics of such donations dictates that the insurance industry provide such units to enforcement.  As a beginning to any critical analysis complying with Ockham's Razor, we must determine which explanation provides the best explanation of any institutional behavior.  This model tells us far more than any alternative.

It does not require any conspiracy at all but a mere convergence of interests.  Insurance companies benefit from providing radar/laser units to the police because they generate tickets that, in turn, generate surcharges, literally a charge for nothing.  That is a great business model.  A convergence of interests requires only that independent parties perform certain actions that are good for them and coincidentally benefit another independent party.  It isn?t necessary that they even cooperate, much less like each other.

OTOH, the police benefit because they get equipment that they would otherwise have to pay for.  This way, they can get  K-9 unit or a radio.

[Soup DeVille]

Roads are NOT "just roads". There are plenty of non-Interstate roads that can clearly not handle anywhere near the speeds you'd like to drive on them. Your definition of "reasonable speeds" would be downright reckless around here. If western states with flat open roads wants to up the speed limit a few MPH, which they've done in the past few years..then fine. To say there should be NO speed limit though? Sorry, can't agree there.

I don't think i've ever seen James argue for the complete abolishment of speed laws: I've seen him argue for changes in the way we set and enforce them, but never have I once seen him say anything about outright abolishing them.

[ChrisV]

GEICO, State Farm, Allstate.  Also IIHS, the tax-exempt lob bying arm of the insurance industry.

Geico was a founding member of the IIHS.

[ChrisV]

I don't think i've ever seen James argue for the complete abolishment of speed laws: I've seen him argue for changes in the way we set and enforce them, but never have I once seen him say anything about outright abolishing them.

None of us have. We've advocated using engineering principles and common sense. Apparently petulance is rampant amongst police officers who seem to think that if we don't like the current laws (or the way they are enforced), we must not want ANY laws. That sort of extremist argument/response is childish.

[ChrisV]

Oh, and there's a beautiful example of a speed trap on my way to work. A 35 mph road (wide, 2 lane street) that has a downhill curve in it that halfway through this sweeping curve, the speed limit drops to 25 mph, and right after that sign, officers regularly sit radaring traffic coming down the hill around the corner. The sign sneaks up on you and by the time you see it, it's hard to get slowed down in time to miss getting caught on radar at 35 (which is now 10 over). Heaven forbid you were doing 5 over in the 35 zone. A LOT of tickets are generated there, and I always flash to warn people to spow down after I go by it in the other direction.

Oh, and the speed limit rises back to 35 a block or so after the corner...

I go the opposite way and for some reason they never look that direction.

[Raza]

Oh, and there's a beautiful example of a speed trap on my way to work. A 35 mph road (wide, 2 lane street) that has a downhill curve in it that halfway through this sweeping curve, the speed limit drops to 25 mph, and right after that sign, officers regularly sit radaring traffic coming down the hill around the corner. The sign sneaks up on you and by the time you see it, it's hard to get slowed down in time to miss getting caught on radar at 35 (which is now 10 over). Heaven forbid you were doing 5 over in the 35 zone. A LOT of tickets are generated there, and I always flash to warn people to spow down after I go by it in the other direction.

Oh, and the speed limit rises back to 35 a block or so after the corner...

I go the opposite way and for some reason they never look that direction.

There's one near a dealership area 40 minutes.  Four lanes, 45mph, and a steep enough downhill that if you're not actively on the brakes, you'll gain 10-15mph just coasting down.