The latest on jaguar

[ChrisV]

Why not? It is gorgeous and a true evolution of early Jaguar sedan styling.

I agree that it's a good looking car. But what it needs to compete properly is to, instead of evolving away from it's classic design, be replaced with a forward looking, radically modern sedan to take on the Audi and BMW on their own terms, rather than being a retro design. The XJ has a direct, unbroken, evolutionary history back to the Mk X/420, so it's not retro. The S type is a modern car that tried to grab the styling of the original '60s S Type, with no evolutionary history inbetween. With no real model history, it can afford to be revamped to be a thoroughly modern sport sedan like the 5 series and M5 especially (not in looks, but in concept).

[ChrisV]

It's always the same old defense for Jaguar, that they overstretched the brand by trying to sell volumes.  First of all, if Porsche can sell a 5 passenger SUV successfully without diluting the brand, Jaguar has no excuses for not being able to manage a simple 3 sedan + sports coupe lineup.

Porsche is an independent company that shared it's SUV development costs with another company. Jaguar was sharing some development costs with Ford, but since Ford owns Jaguar, it was sharing development costs with itself, a significant difference. Secondly, Porsche sells in far smaller volumes than Jaguar was trying to sell at with the X type and S type. Thirdly, the X type was overpriced for what it was, when the sharing with Ford should have left it wit a much cheaper car overall, which would have sold in higher volumes and been considered a success.

It wasnt' a case of diluting the brand through different models but diluting the brand due to the thrust for more volume than it could sustain.

Jaguar's no Bentley or Rolls, they can't sell 'boutique' cars.  Only the most ardent/deluded British nationalists would buy Jags for prices significantly higher than those of equivalent BMWs and Benzes. 

I'm not talking about HIGHER prices than equivalent BMWs or Mercedes. I'm talking about developing cars that compete on content and ability at those price points, while retaining Jaguar style and class. The XJ is almost there. The S type is sadly lacking compared to the 5 series and E class, and the X type simply didn't do it for enough people to compete with the 3 series or C class. The XK is a great car, but ALMOST there, not 100% in the realm of performance. It needs to be at Z06 levels of performance, not regular Corvette.

Dump the X type, replace teh S type with a modern sport sedan to compete with the 5er, and let the XJ perform on par with the 7 series and S calss, with the XK being a high performance sports car with world class performance that the original E type had when new. Give people content and they will buy.

TVR and Morgan don't give enough modern content. TVR has quality issues and is almost a kit car with a decent engine. Morgan is simply an oddity in that it's still built like it was in the '30s, and sells like it always has. Neither has EVER been more than a cottage company.

[heelntoe]

aren't they already testing the next s-type. it's supposed to look a lot like that concept they released.

[ChrisV]

aren't they already testing the next s-type. it's supposed to look a lot like that concept they released.

With the sale pending, I wonder if that's up in the air.

[etypeJohn]

With the sale pending, I wonder if that's up in the air.

I wouldn't think so.  It's suppose to be unveiled this fall and on dealer floors in the spring of 08.  I can't see how it would help Jaguar or Ford to put that on hold.  But Jaguar USA web site does say "Customer deliveries of the new Jaguar XF will commence in spring 2008, dependent on market."  That phrase "dependent on the market" could cover a lot of situations, so you never know.   

[ChrisV]

true, it HAS been spotted in production trim after doing extensive testing...

holy large pics batman!

[TBR]

I agree that it's a good looking car. But what it needs to compete properly is to, instead of evolving away from it's classic design, be replaced with a forward looking, radically modern sedan to take on the Audi and BMW on their own terms, rather than being a retro design. The XJ has a direct, unbroken, evolutionary history back to the Mk X/420, so it's not retro. The S type is a modern car that tried to grab the styling of the original '60s S Type, with no evolutionary history inbetween. With no real model history, it can afford to be revamped to be a thoroughly modern sport sedan like the 5 series and M5 especially (not in looks, but in concept).

I see what you're saying, though I personally think the S-type (at least before the screwed up the rear) looks better than the XJ (which is also gorgeous).

And the pictured car looks great, if they can pull off the front better than they did with the XK.

[Raghavan]

The XF looks gorgeous so far.

[red_shift]

true, it HAS been spotted in production trim after doing extensive testing...

holy large pics batman!

XF looks pretty good. Any word on whether XF will be using Aluminum body like the XJ?

[SVT32V]

Jaguar was sharing some development costs with Ford, but since Ford owns Jaguar, it was sharing development costs with itself, a significant difference.

IMHO, they should have shared more development with Ford.  Was there really a need to produce another tiny V8 DOHC engine when the mod motors were already around and producing more hp?  Yes the mod motor is big, but they could have built the car around them.  Now they are stuck with a small engine that even in supercharged form is not competitive with the likes of the big MBs and BMWs.  A nice Al Ford GT engine in the beautiful XJR would be perfect and at least match the power of the big boys.

The S-type and Lincoln LS could have been produced cheaper with the mod motor and the power more competitive, with the savings used to make the cars otherwise better for dash strokers etc.

The X-type chassis already came with mod motors in australia, they could have made that a bargain hot rod.

Overall though,  IMO Jag makes some of the nicest looking cars that manage to be elegant without the overuse of chrome or the bling-bling styling so prevalent with the teutonic offerings.

My friend has an XK, as beautiful as it is, the 300 hp engine was far from impressive, especially moving all that weight around.  A Jag shouldn't seem strained to move out.

An E-type was an incredible perfromer for its time, yes there were faster vettes, but the E-type was such a complete sports car, really unrivalled at its price.  The XK should od the same.

[Submariner]

That's not dated.  Thats perfection.

It seems like many on here have similar ideas for what Jaguar needs to become.

- XJ:  An elegant large luxury saloon that handles and feels like a smaller car.  Could take a lesson or two from Mercedes or Audi on interior detail, but still, by favorite large sedan out there (actually, one of my favorite vehicles in production.

- XK:  I love this car, top to bottom.  Perhaps a sport version that goes toe to toe with the SL 55 is needed, along with a stronger base engine.  A sports package would be nice, but not necessary.

- S-type:  Something more...radical...that can be compared to an E-class or a 5-series, not an older DeVille

- X-type:  Even though the X-type wasn't a bad car, it was, a warmed over ford.  If they do decide to platform share, they need to make it a bit less obvious.

[SVT_Power]

That's not dated.  Thats perfection.

my god that is beautiful.

[ChrisV]

The X-type chassis already came with mod motors in australia, they could have made that a bargain hot rod.

The X-type uses the Mondeo chassis that was used for our Contour. It is a transverse FWD chassis that got AWD in the X-type. I doubt there was a mod-motor variant in Australia or anywhere...

[SJ_GTI]

XF looks pretty good. Any word on whether XF will be using Aluminum body like the XJ?

Nope, the XF will use a steel body. Aluminum was deemed too expensive.