Why's the NY/NJ Speed Limit for low?

[the nameless one]

If everyone is going 80 you'll have a lot fewer people dodging through traffic.

How do you figure. Its not like its going to go away; everyone would just be moving faster.

[BartsSVO]

How do you figure. Its not like its going to go away; everyone would just be moving faster.

I have noticed that on multi-lane roads with under posted limits traffic tends to back up much faster than on ones where it is posted correctly, simply because there is always the 20-30% of people on the road who insist on drive the PSL and feel that is their right to do so in any lane on the road. Keeping the limit up around the 85th percentile speed greatly lessens this problem and keeps traffic flowing.

[Tave]

I'd tend to agree with that.

@ 50 mph the same amount of cars will be on a given length of road for a longer period of time than @ 75 mph

When traffic is truely congested, no one can weave through it @ 90 mph

There's a very small window when traffic is partly flowing and partly backed up. It's usually either one or the other, at least in my experience. Those times when it is half-and-half, it's usually only the outer left lanes who are moving at any sort of speed.

On the 101 in Phoenix traffic was either free, 10 or 20 to 45-ish, or plain gridlocked. I hardly ever noticed a time when one could weave in and out of congested groups of cars. Traffic patterns and the sheer volume of automobiles simply didn't allow that to be a reality.

[TBR]

How do you figure. Its not like its going to go away; everyone would just be moving faster.

Because a lot of the people dodging back and forth in traffic are going eighty, most won't go faster merely so that they can switch lanes more often. Of course, I've never seen speed enforcement in the areas where people do dart between lanes, there is just no safe way for a cop to set-up on a busy city freeway. My main concern with speed limits is on rural highways, especially interstates (which were designed for 70+ back in the '50s, road and vehicle technology is much more advanced these days, which is why fatalities per miles consistently decreases, even when the speed limit when down and back up, it still decreased both times ('76 and '96 IIRC)).

[the nameless one]

Because a lot of the people dodging back and forth in traffic are going eighty, most won't go faster merely so that they can switch lanes more often. Of course, I've never seen speed enforcement in the areas where people do dart between lanes, there is just no safe way for a cop to set-up on a busy city freeway. My main concern with speed limits is on rural highways, especially interstates (which were designed for 70+ back in the '50s, road and vehicle technology is much more advanced these days, which is why fatalities per miles consistently decreases, even when the speed limit when down and back up, it still decreased both times ('76 and '96 IIRC)).

I thought we were discussing specific urban highways in this thread.

[NomisR]

I wasn't, my original post wasn't really urban setting as a lot of the 55mph roads are mostly rural or suburban, which would've been at least 70 mph or 75 in CA (which is too low IMO as well)

[MX793]

Here's something else to consider:  Snow.  While parts of CA get snow, SoCal does not.  Post high speed limits and I can guarantee you that some morons will try to drive at it in the winter time when it is simply unsafe to do so.  Just this past spring there was a highway fatality on I90 near me where a woman (an out of state driver) was going too fast and lost control in the slushy conditions, crossed over the median and went head-on into a semi.

Also, what's the wildlife situation like in Cali as far as largish animals running into the road?  The deer run rampant up here, even in populated areas and near major highways, though they are at their worst in the rural and suburban areas.  Maybe not so much in NYC, but they are all over the place in upstate.

[James Young]

Don't forget those meteorites.  They are everywhere.

[MX793]

Don't forget those meteorites.  They are everywhere.

I'm not kidding about the deer.  When I was in college, I was driving in the middle of Syracuse, right near the university, and just about hit a pair of deer walking along on city streets.  And this wasn't a one time thing, I saw deer in the middle of the city and around the university multiple times.  More recently, on my way to work a month or so ago I saw a pickup with the front end all busted up and a big old carcas on the side of the road on I-90.  They're not even afraid of people around here.  I live in a pretty typical suburban neighborhood with some thinly wooded areas between parallel streets.  I was walking my dog this summer and there were three of them in a neighbor's lawn eating from some bushes not more than 15 yards from me and they didn't give me more than a glance.  They just casually kept going about their business.  To tell you the truth, I see more deer and other wildlife now living in a suburban area than I did when I lived in a rural area in which you'd actually expect to see these kinds of animals.  I suspect it has something to do with the fact that people can't hunt in suburban and urban areas because there are houses too nearby and the deer and other animals have caught on.  There was also a bear seen wandering around not too far from my house last month which was hit and killed on a nearby highway.

[TurboDan]

OK, here's the deal on this:

80% of NJ has a 65 limit.  The only places that have 55 limits are within 20 or so miles from NYC.  The rest of the state is 65.  Of course, there are some areas where it gets lower, like where the Turnpike splits with I-295 into the Delaware Memorial Bridge, etc.  Within the 65 limit, I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for anything less than 83.  I routinely do 80 in the 55 zone on the NJ Turnpike and have never gotten pulled over.  We're talking about every single day, passing marked cars, etc.  They simply won't pull you over on the NJ Turnpike unless you're doing something incredibly stupid, or unless you're in a car that would make them suspicious.

In NY, the situation is a little different.  While the NJ highways sometimes have a reduced limit due to congestion, many NY highways have a reduced limit because the roadways are old and do not meet the modern DOT standards.  Though not necessarily true in the suburbs, it is true for the majority of NYC highways.

[TBR]

I thought we were discussing specific urban highways in this thread.

True enough, but you ignored the other half of my post that was relevent to the topic. There is simply put no way to safely enforce speed limits on urban highways (and to do so unsafely would obviously defeat the purpose). I was recently in Houston, for example, and though the speed limit was 55 the flow of traffic was 80. A cop even passed us while we were going eighty (no lights). I don't think this speeds are necessarily safe (at least with how most people drive in city traffic) but there is no reason to be in denial about it and post low speed limits if everybody is going to break them.