With the success of the Z why don't manufacturers make more sports cars???

[SVT666]

I'd go for it, but EVERYONE knows those engines are only good for about 125,000 kms.? ?

[ChrisV]

I think they should go with a high-po 2.3L... 200-210HP sounds nice

And ChrisV... the 3 series has done pretty well for the past few years. If they make it a good car people will buy it.

While the argument is old, the 3 series overall is NOT A SPORTS CAR. it's a small sedan/coupe based on sedan principles, not sports car principles. yes, it works good.  That just means they did their homework when it comes to vehicle dynamics, making a sedan work like a sports GT. It sells well because it has the right price on the right badge, and most of the sales go to the 4 door sedan...

[Zcarnut]

I thought we had plenty of sports car to choose from now? Especially in the more "affordable" price ranges.
The market dried up alot in the 90's but that was partially due to a couple things:
1) SUV/truck popularity
2) The Japanese sports cars started getting expensive and priced themselves out of the market,the only American one was the Vette,and nothing affordable from Europe existed untill the Z3 hit (which IMO started kicking off the "cheaper" sports car trend were still enjoying).

[Yawn]

Unfair question: some of those cars failed because they had a habit of breaking down or catching fire. Some didn't fail in the market at all, but were discontinued for other reasons. Some were replaced. Some were crap.

Strong Yen as well so the prices were alot higher than today.. It was about 85 yen per dollar and now is 122 yen (avg) per dollar..

[Onslaught]

Why not? They USED to put rotaries in every car they made, including sedans, station wagons, and their pickup truck...

Did they!!!!??? I never knew that!! 
I think the car would sell better and probably be less expensive if they used the 2.3 they have now in their other cars. Rather than a hand made motor with limited production capacity.
That and it would get better after market support with a piston engine.

[Onslaught]

? GM built the solstice sky twins and aimed them directly at the well established Miata.? They've managed to beat the Miata in sales.

Not this year. That is unless you add Sky and Solstice sales together.

[SVT666]

Not this year. That is unless you add Sky and Solstice sales together.

What are the sales numbers so far?  Personally I do put the Sky and Solstice sales together because the cars are identical (even suspension settings) except for the body.  If the Miata had a Ford counterpart that was exactly the same except for sheetmetal, I would do the same.

[MX793]

I agree, there need to be more RWD fixed roof coupes for under 30K.  Convertibles hold absolutely zero appeal for me.  I would love a 240SX type of car.  Less than 3000 lbs, fully independant suspension, and a motor kicking out 170-200 hp and getting fuel economy in the high 20 mpg range.  If GM made a coupe version of the Solstice or Sky (I loved the Solstice coupe concept) and priced it at the same starting point as the 'vert, I'd be all over it.  Or if Mazda decided to make the Kabura.

[Soup DeVille]

Strong Yen as well so the prices were alot higher than today.. It was about 85 yen per dollar and now is 122 yen (avg) per dollar..

Not all the cars listed were of Japanese origin.

[Onslaught]

What are the sales numbers so far?? Personally I do put the Sky and Solstice sales together because the cars are identical (even suspension settings) except for the body.? If the Miata had a Ford counterpart that was exactly the same except for sheetmetal, I would do the same.

I can look them up but I saw a post that last month that July was the first time this year that the Solstice outsold the MX-5. It's been very close
this year but the "must have" push for the Skystice looks to be cooling down. I see them on the lots all the time. As well as MX-5's.
And I don't put them together. They are different cars with different names sold by related but different manufactures.
And if Ford sold a MX-5 car for them selfs then I wouldn't add it to the MX-5's total number. I wouldn't even acknowledge it!
Not that I even care who sells more in the first place really.

[SVT666]

I can look them up but I saw a post that last month that July was the first time this year that the Solstice outsold the MX-5. It's been very close
this year but the "must have" push for the Skystice looks to be cooling down. I see them on the lots all the time. As well as MX-5's.
And I don't put them together. They are different cars with different names sold by related but different manufactures.
And if Ford sold a MX-5 car for them selfs then I wouldn't add it to the MX-5's total number. I wouldn't even acknowledge it!
Not that I even care who sells more in the first place really.

Why not?  They aren't different cars except for sheetmetal.  The same suspension tuning, same engines, same everything except sheetmetal.

[Onslaught]

I realize that they are basically the same thing. Even more so then say a Probe and a MX-6, Ranger and B truck or a Ford and Mercury. But to me having different sheet metal and names and brands makes you a different car.
Or so much so that I don't add their numbers together because of that. But GM gets all the money sold by them so it makes no difference in the end. One good thing is that MX-5 sales are up this year over past years so it shows that
the market has room for all these small convertibles. We can all get what we want.

That is unless you want a MX-5 coupe like I do.

[r0tor]

going back to the original question... manufacturers don't line-up to make sports cars because a "successful" sports car may sell 20-30k units a year while a "successful" sedan will sell that in a month or two.  PLus sports cars need to be continually updated or sales plummet year after year while a sedan can remain unchanged for 5 years and still be selling as good as ever.

You only produce sports cars to give the company a credible performance reputation and/or to draw buyers into showrooms so they buy your sedans while gawking at your sports car...

[Onslaught]

Very true. I think Toyota shows that making a sports car isn't necessary at all if selling a shit load of cars is your goal.

[NomisR]

Very true. I think Toyota shows that making a sports car isn't necessary at all if selling a shit load of cars is your goal.

People are more into buying plain jane vanilla ice cream than into buying exotic durian flavor icecreams or something like that..  It's what sells.. whenyou have to put more money into sports cars than into sedan, and you don't sell as may of the former, what would you do?  Well people on this board would probably still produce the sports cars but that's why we're not running car companies..

[SJ_GTI]

I can look them up but I saw a post that last month that July was the first time this year that the Solstice outsold the MX-5. It's been very close
this year but the "must have" push for the Skystice looks to be cooling down. I see them on the lots all the time. As well as MX-5's.
And I don't put them together. They are different cars with different names sold by related but different manufactures.
And if Ford sold a MX-5 car for them selfs then I wouldn't add it to the MX-5's total number. I wouldn't even acknowledge it!
Not that I even care who sells more in the first place really.

The reason people tend to put them together is because they are made on the same assembly line. The Solstice sales had to go down when they made the Sky, simply as a matter of production availability. Same thing when they started exporting the Opel GT. If the Sky is popular its automatically going to limit the number of Solstice sales.

I am not saying its the right thing to do, but its the main reason people do it as far as I can tell. Its not like GM has cut back on Kappa production or sales, they just changed the mix.

[Raza]

If I don't want a canvas top the count goes down is all I'm saying. There should be more solid top sports cars GTs in the low 20K range. Because if I want a roof, the only choices are

Mustang
RX-8
350Z

Then we start spending money:

328i/335i
G37

Or buying roofs for convertibles, which IMO is pointless. You still pay the high insurance and you don't get any structural rigidity from the thing.

See how much easier that is to type?

[SVT666]

Quit being so fucking anal.

[TheIntrepid]

Quit being so fucking anal.

+1

[Soup DeVille]

Quit being so fucking anal.

Careful, phrases like that tend to attract spammers.

[Raza]

Careful, phrases like that tend to attract spammers.

Might get this site blocked at some Spinners' workplaces.  That wouldn't be great.



I'm going to start calling all GT cars trucks from now on.  We'll see how much it gets on your (collective) nerves....






In any case, the success of the Z doesn't mean anything.  Companies would need to make sure they could build a profitable car, and having it be bespoke and low volume doesn't usually mean high profits.  Look at the MR-2 Spyder.  Great car.  In my opinion, clearly the best drivers' car under 30 grand when it was on sale.  But, it just died, in relative obscurity because its company didn't devote enough resources to it. 

[Michael Estorol]

Along with the fact that, most automaker's lineup is filled with FWD Sedans, you don't have any sort of platform sharing at all or a lot of parts.? I suppose you can share a lot of the interior parts but most everything have to start from scratch.. which means $$$

actually, a FWD sedan can be a pretty good basis for a mid-engine RWD sports car.? The MGF was done on the cheap because it could use an off-the-shelf Austin-Rover drivetrain turned ass-backwards; which in turn was the basis for the Lotus Elise...

[edit : see also the Fiat X1/9 and Lancia Monte Carlo]

[MX793]

actually, a FWD sedan can be a pretty good basis for a mid-engine RWD sports car.  The MGF was done on the cheap because it could use an off-the-shelf Austin-Rover drivetrain turned ass-backwards; which in turn was the basis for the Lotus Elise...

[edit : see also the Fiat X1/9 and Lancia Monte Carlo]

Drivetrain is one thing, platform is another.  Rover didn't turn a FWD sedan platform into a mid engine sports car, they developed the chassis and then just used their FWD powertrain to save the cost of also developing a means of driving the wheels.

[sportyaccordy]

Here's a quick business plan for Honda.

Make a RWD platform similar to Nissan's FM platform.

Put all your Acuras on it (your consumers wouldn't know any better, for the most part. And you could market having the same layout as a BMW).

Make a 25K GT with the current TSX's motor. Call it the Prelude and watch the young single guys like myself and secretaries flock to it.

I suppose if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But one day a Honda engineer will wake up after the release of a 370HP FWD TL, and say 'what the hell were we thinking??? when will the madness end???'

[TBR]

This Prelude of yours will need more than 200hp to get my money, especially if it is based on a heavy luxury platform (ie: FM).