Swung by the local Ford dealer today...

[SVT666]

Which means nothing because the general population is stupid. Sales numbers and demand meaning nothing!

You have so missed the point. ? What doesn't matter is the general population's intelligence.? The only thing that matters in this case is the sales numbers and demand.  You still think I'm arguing that the GT500 is better because it sells more don't you?

Acceleration, at least 0-60, is equal between the GT500 and Cobra, which is #1 since these are straight line cars we're talking about here.

Again, you're wrong.? The best MM&FF could get from a stock Terminator Cobra was 4.6 seconds to 60 mph while they got the GT500 there in 4.4 seconds.

[SVT666]

I couldn't imagine spending 70 grand on it.? For 70 grand you could mod up a regular GT and still have enough money for a GTI.?

Neither could I.  I can't even imagine spending MSRP on the thing.  I could build a better, faster, and sharper looking car from a 2005 Mustang GT for a shit load less money.  Of course, it doesn't have the Shelby name or a warranty, but who cares, I could smoke it if I ever had to.

[the Teuton]

How much do Roush Stage 3s and Saleen S281Es cost?

[SVT666]

Can anybody actually prove that every GT500 is going for $70,000? I'd like to see it.

You're right.  Some go for more.

There's one in Dawson Creek, BC that has a window sticker of $108,000.  A single dealership in Edmonton sold 3 for $105,000 in a month.  Prices in Edmonton and Calgary right now are pretty stable at $85,000 everywhere I checked and what's being advertised.  Across Canada I found the prices range from a low of $67K to a high of $108K.  In Canada the GT500's MSRP is $56K.  2007 Corvette Z06s are going for anywhere between $75K and $96K with an MSRP of $90 - $95K depending on options.  In Canada at least the prices seem very comparable between the two with the Z06 going for less then MSRP for the most part.

[SVT666]

How much do Roush Stage 3s and Saleen S281Es cost?

A Saleen S281E has an MSRP of $72,000 USD.

[TBR]

You have so missed the point.   What doesn't matter is the general population's intelligence.  The only thing that matters in this case is the sales numbers and demand.  You still think I'm arguing that the GT500 is better because it sells more don't you?
Again, you're wrong.  The best MM&FF could get from a stock Terminator Cobra was 4.6 seconds to 60 mph while they got the GT500 there in 4.4 seconds.

How are sales numbers the least bit relevent to anything from an enthuisist's perspective? They just don't matter. Hell, the S2000 used to have 10-15k mark-ups, but it doesn't any more though it is now an even better car. The only thing that a GT500 going for $70k proves is that there are a bunch of people who are so blindly biased towards Mustangs and the accompanying nostalgia that they will ignore numerous better cars available for similar prices.

[the Teuton]

And pretty soon the 4 seater 400 hp M3 will be raising hell for about the same price.  That is, unless it's marked up significantly.

[SVT666]

How are sales numbers the least bit relevent to anything from an enthuisist's perspective? They just don't matter. Hell, the S2000 used to have 10-15k mark-ups, but it doesn't any more though it is now an even better car.

Oh.....my.....god.  Are you even on the same planet as the rest of us?  We aren't talking about which is the better car.  This thread is all about demand and sales...that's it.  The demand for the car is the reason for the dealer markups.  That's all we're talking about. 

The only thing that a GT500 going for $70k proves is that there are a bunch of people who are so blindly biased towards Mustangs and the accompanying nostalgia that they will ignore numerous better cars available for similar prices.

Absolutely.  We agree on something.  This is the reason for the thread and the reason for the sales prices and the demand for the car.  I have never said that the GT500 is the better car.  In fact I even stated I would buy a Z06 over the GT500.  You are so biased against the GT500 you couldn't even see that which is why post after post from you in this thread has called me out for thinking the GT500 is better...which I never did.

[TBR]

You said it was more appealing, a truly inaccurate statement. Whether you can see it or not, your just exhibiting your Mustang fanboyism here, in no context should sales numbers of a performance vehicle mean squat (yet you're still talking about it, bragging about $20k mark ups), unless the brand sells solely performance vehicles. Otherwise, the numbers just don't matter from a business POV either.

[SVT666]

You said it was more appealing, a truly inaccurate statement. Whether you can see it or not, your just exhibiting your Mustang fanboyism here, in no context should sales numbers of a performance vehicle mean squat (yet you're still talking about it, bragging about $20k mark ups), unless the brand sells solely performance vehicles. Otherwise, the numbers just don't matter from a business POV either.

What???  Are you serious?  Since when do sales numbers NOT reflect the appeal of a performance car?  Especially when compared to another performance car that sells for similar dollars?    My "fanboyism" is NOT showing through in the least, since I even stated I would personally buy the Z06.  How many drugs are you on TBR?

[ChrisV]

Which means nothing because the general population is stupid. Sales numbers and demand meaning nothing!

\




"Waahh, they don't like the same thing I like so they are stupid!"

Such bullshit. Such fucking egotistical bullshit coming from you.

And that's the tone of the naysayers in this thread. Such closed minded worthlesness. "We don't like it so no one else should. And anyone that does is stupid."

Simply put, Hemi's right. the reason there is STILL markups like that on the car is that enough people feel the car is worth it. Doesn't make it better or worse than another car that sells in teh same price range. Just means that people still feel teh Mustang is worth that sort of dollar figure.the performance of both is vastly above any reasonable street use, so as Soup said, the difference is pointless bragging rights in bench racing. The Mustang is rarer and has more cachet. So it commands a higher street price than MSRP, whether YOU would pay it or not.

But the insulting BULLSHIT needs to stop.

[GoCougs]

Is it insulting to state that it is insanity to pay $70k USD for this car? I guess it's really not much removed than paying $70k USD for a classic muscle car. I still think that it's incongruent.

However, I still remain skeptical that the cars are actually selling with this much of a premium. How is this known? If I'm a dealer there's no way I'm showing my cards, to be used against me by other potential buyers. Basing sales prices off asking prices is a bit dubious as well.

In committing the sin of anectodal evidence as a data, I drive by a lot of new Ford dealers, and every single one of them has multiple GT500s on display.

[Cobra93]

Checking eBay completed listings, it looks like you can get them for mid 50's. I'm sure some dealers are getting more than that, but that's still ridiculous, IMO. If they'll come down to MSRP or less, I'll have to start thinking seriously about one.

[omicron]

\




"Waahh, they don't like the same thing I like so they are stupid!"

Such bullshit. Such fucking egotistical bullshit coming from you.

And that's the tone of the naysayers in this thread. Such closed minded worthlesness. "We don't like it so no one else should. And anyone that does is stupid."

Simply put, Hemi's right. the reason there is STILL markups like that on the car is that enough people feel the car is worth it. Doesn't make it better or worse than another car that sells in teh same price range. Just means that people still feel teh Mustang is worth that sort of dollar figure.the performance of both is vastly above any reasonable street use, so as Soup said, the difference is pointless bragging rights in bench racing. The Mustang is rarer and has more cachet. So it commands a higher street price than MSRP, whether YOU would pay it or not.

But the insulting BULLSHIT needs to stop.

Agree. If it sells for amounts higher than MSRP, then full credit to Ford for doing so. I wouldn't buy it, but I applaud them for advertising a given retail price, and being able to sell the car for well above that price.

[VetteZ06]

Such closed minded worthlesness.

But the insulting BULLSHIT needs to stop.

[Soup DeVille]

Agree. If it sells for amounts higher than MSRP, then full credit to Ford for doing so. I wouldn't buy it, but I applaud them for advertising a given retail price, and being able to sell the car for well above that price.

There's my problem with such high dealer mark-ups though: Ford agreed to sell the cars to a dealer at a fixed price, and they did so. They also suggested the price at which they would like to see it sold.

The dealer figured that price was about 20 grand too low, so they resell it for that. None of that extra money goes to Ford: but Ford still foots the bill on any warranty work done on that car. With the financial difficulties they're in, wouldn't it benefit Ford if they got some of that money too?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

How are sales numbers the least bit relevent to anything from an enthuisist's perspective? They just don't matter. Hell, the S2000 used to have 10-15k mark-ups, but it doesn't any more though it is now an even better car. The only thing that a GT500 going for $70k proves is that there are a bunch of people who are so blindly biased towards Mustangs and the accompanying nostalgia that they will ignore numerous better cars available for similar prices.

It's been like that since '93 when the new Z28/TAs where whooping GTs .Back to the subject,i wonder how much these GT500s will be worth in 5 to 10 years?Will paying such a large premium pay off in the end? 

[SVT666]

It's been like that since '93 when the new Z28/TAs where whooping GTs .Back to the subject,i wonder how much these GT500s will be worth in 5 to 10 years?Will paying such a large premium pay off in the end??

Probably not with 30,000 GT500s being built before the run is over.

[TBR]

\




"Waahh, they don't like the same thing I like so they are stupid!"

Such bullshit. Such fucking egotistical bullshit coming from you.

And that's the tone of the naysayers in this thread. Such closed minded worthlesness. "We don't like it so no one else should. And anyone that does is stupid."

Simply put, Hemi's right. the reason there is STILL markups like that on the car is that enough people feel the car is worth it. Doesn't make it better or worse than another car that sells in teh same price range. Just means that people still feel teh Mustang is worth that sort of dollar figure.the performance of both is vastly above any reasonable street use, so as Soup said, the difference is pointless bragging rights in bench racing. The Mustang is rarer and has more cachet. So it commands a higher street price than MSRP, whether YOU would pay it or not.

But the insulting BULLSHIT needs to stop.

The last part is just hilarous, you are more than happy to insult respected members time after time, I am just insulting the general population's taste.

What is Hemi even talking about here? Yes, the GT500 is selling for $20k more than sticker. All that means is that some dealers are really making out good, it doesn't help Ford, it doesn't make the car any better, it is just a number that means nothing unless you happen to be a Ford dealer with a GT500 sitting in your show room.

Sorry, but people who buy cars based purely on appearance are stupid, this includes the thousands of peoples who buy Hondas because they are Hondas and Toyotas because they are Toyotas.

I like the GT500's styling very much, it is a real nice looking car, but I wouldn't buy one because, for the price, the performance isn't up to par (not acceleration necessarily which is still disappointing imho), and that is at $45k, not $65k.

[IrishGuy]

\




"Waahh, they don't like the same thing I like so they are stupid!"

Such bullshit. Such fucking egotistical bullshit coming from you.

And that's the tone of the naysayers in this thread. Such closed minded worthlesness. "We don't like it so no one else should. And anyone that does is stupid."

Simply put, Hemi's right. the reason there is STILL markups like that on the car is that enough people feel the car is worth it. Doesn't make it better or worse than another car that sells in teh same price range. Just means that people still feel teh Mustang is worth that sort of dollar figure.the performance of both is vastly above any reasonable street use, so as Soup said, the difference is pointless bragging rights in bench racing. The Mustang is rarer and has more cachet. So it commands a higher street price than MSRP, whether YOU would pay it or not.

But the insulting BULLSHIT needs to stop.

Breathe... it will all be OK.

[Onslaught]

Can anybody actually prove that every GT500 is going for $70,000? I'd like to see it.

We sold one a few months ago. I'll try and look into how much the thing went for.

[SVT666]

The last part is just hilarous, you are more than happy to insult respected members time after time, I am just insulting the general population's taste.

What is Hemi even talking about here? Yes, the GT500 is selling for $20k more than sticker. All that means is that some dealers are really making out good, it doesn't help Ford, it doesn't make the car any better, it is just a number that means nothing unless you happen to be a Ford dealer with a GT500 sitting in your show room.

Sorry, but people who buy cars based purely on appearance are stupid, this includes the thousands of peoples who buy Hondas because they are Hondas and Toyotas because they are Toyotas.

I like the GT500's styling very much, it is a real nice looking car, but I wouldn't buy one because, for the price, the performance isn't up to par (not acceleration necessarily which is still disappointing imho), and that is at $45k, not $65k.

I don't disagree with anything you said (except the dissapointing acceleration), but you have missed the point of this thread entirely.  You have misunderstood my arguments from the beginning and you seem to completely want to refuse to even try to understand what this thread is about.  You still think I'm trying to say the GT500 is a better car then it is....I'm not. 

[nickdrinkwater]

The appeal of the Mustang is mainly that it is a 'sports' car for a budget price.  So spending US$70,000 on one makes no sense at all IMO.

[SVT666]

The appeal of the Mustang is mainly that it is a 'sports' car for a budget price.? So spending US$70,000 on one makes no sense at all IMO.

I agree, but people are.  So what are you gonna do?

[Eye of the Tiger]

I agree, but people are.  So what are you gonna do?

Steal their money, and slap them across the face with it.

[TBR]

I don't disagree with anything you said (except the dissapointing acceleration), but you have missed the point of this thread entirely.  You have misunderstood my arguments from the beginning and you seem to completely want to refuse to even try to understand what this thread is about.  You still think I'm trying to say the GT500 is a better car then it is....I'm not. 

What are your arguments? This thread is about GT500s going for ridiculously high prices which is a fact, no one is arguing about what price GT500s are going for. You're the one that wants to argue over my point, the only reason people are overpaying for the GT500 is because they are so biased by the past and the GT500 invokes those emotions of nostalgia far better than anything else.

And, it isn't a sports car.

[nickdrinkwater]

I agree, but people are.? So what are you gonna do?

Give credit to Ford's marketing department!

[TBR]

$20k mark-ups hurt Ford, they don't help the company one bit and tarnish the already hurting reputation of Ford's dealer network.

[SVT666]

What are your arguments? This thread is about GT500s going for ridiculously high prices which is a fact, no one is arguing about what price GT500s are going for. You're the one that wants to argue over my point, the only reason people are overpaying for the GT500 is because they are so biased by the past and the GT500 invokes those emotions of nostalgia far better than anything else.

I haven't told you that you are wrong at all.  You're the one who wants to argue the GT500's merits which have nothing to do with what we're talking about.  You're also the one who wants to argue that sales numbers and demand don't mean anything....which absolutely makes no sense whatsoever.

And, it isn't a sports car.

Where the hell did this come from?  Nobody said it was.

[SVT666]

$20k mark-ups hurt Ford, they don't help the company one bit and tarnish the already hurting reputation of Ford's dealer network.

Absolutely.  Dealer markups do nothing but piss me off because they take a car that maybe one day I would be able to afford and they put it in another realm that I can only dream about.