Fighter Jets

[sandertheshark]

Out of all my drunken posts, that's one of them.  I also forgot to come back and explain that.

In response to this:

So what he's basically saying is Russian jets >>>> American jets.

Not really.  The last generation of Russian fighters is the MiG-29 Fulcrum and the Su-27 Flanker series.  These are far superior to the last American fighters from the Cold War era - the F-14, 15, 16, and the first-generation F/A-18 (not the new Super Hornet.)  In the early eighties when we started to see what the Russians were capable of, the Air Force realized immediately that our fighters would be outmatched in a straight fight.  That's when we started the Advanced Tactical Fighter program that led to the development of the F-22.  But until the end of the Cold War we had some really worried dudes in the Pentagon.   In the The Advanced Tactical Fighter Statement of Operational Need (a strongly-worded document that convinced Congress to pony up the cash for the Raptor) one Air Force general remarked "Basically we're running around in a bunch of old Camaros and the other guys want to race us in their Ferraris."  At the time it was a fairly accurate comparison.

Since then we've upgraded everything in our inventory and brought in some new heavy hitters.  But the Russians are getting better too.  I'd say the Super Hornet and Raptor match up pretty well against the Super Flanker, but then I haven't flown any of them.  The guy I know who has, the one who did that car comparison, said the only American fighter he'd want to take into a close-quarters dogfight against either a Flanker or Fulcrum is a Super Hornet.

Now the Raptor and the Lightning II also have the advantage of stealth but that disappears as soon as you turn on your radar.  The key factors in the performance and survivability of modern fighter are top speed, acceleration, G-limit, and ECM systems.  The Russians win top speed.  The Fulcrum can do 2.2 Mach and the Flanker does 2.6 Mach.  The only Mach 2 fighter we still have is the soon-to-be-retired  F-15.  The Raptor can cruise at supersonic speed but it tops out at just 1.8 Mach.  The Super Hornet can supposedly break Mach 2 but only flying clean (no weapons or external fuel tanks) but that would be when it's time to run anyway.  Acceleration is our strong suit - the Super Hornet is the quickest plane in the world going from 100 to 600knots, and the Raptor isn't far behind it.  Russian engines are more peaky, so they can accelerate pretty well from mid-range but not from low speed.  That's part of the Corvette vs. Ferrari comparison again.  G-limit is pretty even across the board.  All of them can take more punishment than the human body anyway.  ECM is a slam dunk for the Americans, especially the Super Hornet.  That think is basically immune to missiles.  The Raptor his harder to acquire but easier to hold on to once you have a radar lock.  The Russians really haven't got a prayer if they're engaged at range, which is where the Raptor is designed to fight.  But once they move in close then ECM doesn't matter so much.

[Onslaught]

I have no doubt that this is true. But the military always says what they have is junk when they want something new.  It's always "these things are unsafe or outdated" when other forces use them for years after us with no problems. It's a good way to make it sound like you have to have it.

[FoMoJo]

You're in Toronto, right?


I was on the 401 monday, near the 427 when I saw a sweet military jet flying south towards the lake.? When I finally caught a good glimpse of it, I couldn't believe my eyes, it was a friggin' F-22!? ? I was wondering just what in the fuck it was doing over Toronto until I read about the CNE airshow the next day

I was there on Sunday...great weather for an airshow.? The F22, imo, was, by far, the most impressive.? That and the P51...the sweetest of them all!

[S204STi]

F16 for me!  F14 Tomcat is a very close second.

[TheIntrepid]

You're in Toronto, right?


I was on the 401 monday, near the 427 when I saw a sweet military jet flying south towards the lake.  When I finally caught a good glimpse of it, I couldn't believe my eyes, it was a friggin' F-22!    I was wondering just what in the fuck it was doing over Toronto until I read about the CNE airshow the next day

You should have PMed. The intersection of 401 and 427 is literally 5 minutes from me.

[Pancor]

You should have PMed. The intersection of 401 and 427 is literally 5 minutes from me.

Which Kwik-E-Mart?   


Yeah, If I'm ever in the city its probably because it happens to be between where I was and where I'm going.  I hate it   Lol.   I wish I went to the Toronto meet, it looked fun.  Could have used another white country boy to even things out, too.  Next time!

[etypeJohn]

They aren't trashing them, they're just retiring them from frontline fleet duty.  Naval Reserve Fighter Wing FTW.

Yeah, my old squadron VF 101, the Grim Reapers stood down about 2 years ago.  They were the last F14 fleet replacement squqdron in the Navy.  I saw the first public exibition of the Tomcat at Norfolk naval Air Station in May of 74.  If flew over from pax River and did a flyby.  Highly impressive.

You left out my two favorites.

The F4 Phantom II  A VF 101 pilot once described the glide characteristics of the F-4 as being about the same as the glide characteristics of a set of car keys.

and this bad boy.



Obviously not a fighter, but.................

[GoCougs]

I'd vote for an F-4. Of those listed, I'd opt for the F-22.

The Russians have a significant issue in out-of-country logistics: they have but one aircraft carrier. The Su-37 is also a non-issue. There are none in service. Beyond that, it will be a battle of logistics, and the Russians would think twice about a major engagement with the US (it wouldn't be pretty though).

All in all, the goal is to not get in a dog fight. The preferred method is to get 'em without them knowing. The F-22 was designed for this - and it by far and away at the top of the food chain.

[3.0L V6]

I like the F-35 Lightning II just cause it's a modern 'jack of all trades' aircraft. Doesn't excel in any one area, but looks like a well rounded aircraft. Kind of like the original F-18 Hornets.

[TheIntrepid]

Which Kwik-E-Mart?   


Yeah, If I'm ever in the city its probably because it happens to be between where I was and where I'm going.  I hate it   Lol.   I wish I went to the Toronto meet, it looked fun.  Could have used another white country boy to even things out, too.  Next time!

VTEC was there; and he's a white guy from the outskirts of Hamilton. :P

And seriously if you're ever in the Mississauga/Oakville/Brampton area hit me up with a PM and we'll do something.

[Onslaught]

The greatest of all time! If this was on the list I would pick it.

[sandertheshark]

All in all, the goal is to not get in a dog fight. The preferred method is to get 'em without them knowing. The F-22 was designed for this - and it by far and away at the top of the food chain.

That's what we thought about the F-4 when we designed the Phantom II without a gun.

[redbloodedamerican]

Speaking of, do you wonder why we never hear anything about British fighters?

[SVT_Power]

zomg RBA made a funny p0st!