This weekend our traffic enforcement

[James Young]

My point is that *I* know the ticket to be true and accurate. It would not have been written otherwise. Go ahead and argue its validity, *I* know it to be the truth.

No, in fact you don't know that.  You merely assert it to be truth.  Cops make errors all the time and occasionally just make stuff up.

If the driver gets to the end of the ramp and theres no place to merge into, they absolutely have to stop or slow until an opening comes along. They cannot merge into a place there is no place to merge into without causing an accident. THAT is the scenario I'm thinking of. You apparently would insist that the driver continue to merge unsafely even though doing so would cause an accident.

No, I would not insist on that.  What I would insist upon is that the merging driver be able to pick a spot as he starts down the ramp, well before a problem occurs.  If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be driving.  Any driver getting to the end of the merge lane -- past the gore point -- with no safe place to put his vehicle is an idiot and should be barred from ever driving again.

Merging onto I-15 northbound from Rancho Calfifornia Road is typically at 75-80 mph, the prevailing speed of traffic that has already established the ROW.  A few weeks ago, I had to adjust while on the ramp and hit traffic at 90 mph, sliding right in without incident.  This is not rocket science.  Every driver in America should be able to do it as second nature.

[Champ]

If the driver gets to the end of the ramp and theres no place to merge into, they absolutely have to stop or slow until an opening comes along. They cannot merge into a place there is no place to merge into without causing an accident. THAT is the scenario I'm thinking of. You apparently would insist that the driver continue to merge unsafely even though doing so would cause an accident. All because you as a driver behind the one at the top of the ramp might feel a little inconvenienced because you had to wait a few seconds. It is your view that is the menace to traffic safety.

I can honestly say in the last 9 years of driving I've never failed to make a merge and had to slow down to much below the speed of traffic.  Now when I get stuck behind people who do, on the same ramps I never have a problem with - I have to imagine it is operator error and not just some blue moon event where there is no where to merge.  It also doesn't help their case when people travel one speed (not accelerating) down a merge ramp, then get to the end and look over their shoulder to check traffic.

[the nameless one]

No, in fact you don't know that.  You merely assert it to be truth.  Cops make errors all the time and occasionally just make stuff up.

In fact IO DO know that. If I have the slightest doubt that I am correct, the person gets a pass.

No, I would not insist on that.  What I would insist upon is that the merging driver be able to pick a spot as he starts down the ramp, well before a problem occurs.  If they can't do that, then they shouldn't be driving.  Any driver getting to the end of the merge lane -- past the gore point -- with no safe place to put his vehicle is an idiot and should be barred from ever driving again.

I've seen plenty of short ramps where theres very little time to be able to pick a spot in the flow of traffic to merge into. if the people in the driving lane don't move over, the person on the ramp gets stuck waiting for an opening. Apparently you want that person to just bull their way into the lane.

[Raza]

In fact IO DO know that. If I have the slightest doubt that I am correct, the person gets a pass.

I've seen plenty of short ramps where theres very little time to be able to pick a spot in the flow of traffic to merge into. if the people in the driving lane don't move over, the person on the ramp gets stuck waiting for an opening. Apparently you want that person to just bull their way into the lane.

What really gets me are the ramps that have stop signs on them.  I guess they could be there for a reason, such as poor visibility, but for ones that are permanent (i.e. not construction zones) why don't they do something about it?  I mean, hell; they've been working on some roads out here for the past 8 years, they could certainly fix a ramp. 

But people who can't merge also really get me angry.  I have a merging technique.  I hammer down, evaluate the situation, and slot into traffic.  Just like James said; you pick a spot, and take it.  Although there are people who speed up to try and get in front of you while you're merging; poopieheads. 

[Raza]

Also, recently a member on this forum witnessed a cop pull over the wrong motorcyclist.  Guess they are fallible after all...

[hounddog]

No, he didn't; he's just confused.

Sorry, he did, and made you look like a liar and bully in the process.

[hounddog]

Also, recently a member on this forum witnessed a cop pull over the wrong motorcyclist.  Guess they are fallible after all...

What kind of non-sense is that?   Of course police make
mistakes.  Only a twit would not recognize that.  

[Rupert]

Sorry, he did, and made you look like a liar and bully in the process.

I disagree that James has been made to look like a liar or a bully.

[hounddog]

I disagree that James has been made to look like a liar or a bully.

Well, that is your opinion.  And, you have the right to it.  Even if he did make statements that were in direct conflict with one another.

[Rupert]

You wanna show me those statements?

[hounddog]

You wanna show me those statements?

Try reading back a ways. 

[Rupert]

I did.

[Soup DeVille]

What kind of non-sense is that?   Of course police make
mistakes.  Only a twit would not recognize that.  

Nameless claims he's infallible, so there's your answer.

[Catman]

Also, recently a member on this forum witnessed a cop pull over the wrong motorcyclist.  Guess they are fallible after all...

So the witnessed incident is fact?  Cops do make mistakes but, speaking for myself, if I have even a shade of doubt I let them go.  I was stopped in error back in 94 or so.  The officer apologized and let me go.  I would say that 99% of officer mistakes are related to errors in paperwork and not so much observation.  I would expect mistakes to happen though as even highly educated doctors occasionally amputate the wrong head, etc.

[Catman]

Shit, I hit 10,000 posts and didn't even notice!

[Rupert]

No! Bring out the time machine...

[James Young]

hounddog writes:

Sorry, [rohan] did, and made you look like a liar and bully in the process

hounddog writes to Psilos:

Well, that is your opinion.  And, you have the right to it.  Even if he [James Young] did make statements that were in direct conflict with one another.

Yet, neither you nor he can point those out contradictions.  He posted quotes of me that were complementary rather than contradictory. I don?t mind being labeled as bully,  but you can?t even show where I was wrong, much less posted a false assertion with intent to deceive. 

Mr. Psilos, thank you for your support.

[Raza]

So the witnessed incident is fact?  Cops do make mistakes but, speaking for myself, if I have even a shade of doubt I let them go.  I was stopped in error back in 94 or so.  The officer apologized and let me go.  I would say that 99% of officer mistakes are related to errors in paperwork and not so much observation.  I would expect mistakes to happen though as even highly educated doctors occasionally amputate the wrong head, etc.

I don't trust doctors either.

[the nameless one]

Nameless claims he's infallible, so there's your answer.

I didn't say I was infallible. I said I know the ones getting tickets here did what the ticket says they did. They can claim they are innocent all they want. I know otherwise.

[Soup DeVille]

I didn't say I was infallible. I said I know the ones getting tickets here did what the ticket says they did. They can claim they are innocent all they want. I know otherwise.

Why do you bother arguing with me in the first sentence just to prove my point in the second?

[Raza]

[Rupert]

hounddog writes:

hounddog writes to Psilos:

Yet, neither you nor he can point those out contradictions.  He posted quotes of me that were complementary rather than contradictory. I don?t mind being labeled as bully,  but you can?t even show where I was wrong, much less posted a false assertion with intent to deceive. 

Mr. Psilos, thank you for your support.

No Mister, just Psilos. You're welcome. I'm rather tired of the three bully cops around here insisting that they are the law and us mere citizens can't even begin to understand it.

[Soup DeVille]

No Mister, just Psilos. You're welcome. I'm rather tired of the three bully cops around here insisting that they are the law and us mere citizens can't even begin to understand it.

I don't see any of them as bullies. Hounddog and Rohan have both fallen a little bit too hard for their own propoganda, but they mean well and rarely fall into the trap of saying things just to win arguments. Bing-Oh and Catman are both remarkably even handed. The obviously take their jobs seriously, but they should. Nameless is just funny.

[Eye of the Tiger]

A friend of mine just got a $300+ ticket for 80 in a 65 and an expired inspection sticker in his Caviler.
It sux because he just got a new truck (2000 F150 V6 5spd 2wd), and he's taking that shitty Cavalier to the scrapyard next week.
What he told me, is that he was actually going the same speed as the traffic around him (5-6 cars doing about 80), and they passed 5-6 cops parked in the median, and every one of those cars got pulled over! The intention there was obviously just to write as many tickets as possible.

[Raza]

I don't see any of them as bullies. Hounddog and Rohan have both fallen a little bit too hard for their own propoganda, but they mean well and rarely fall into the trap of saying things just to win arguments. Bing-Oh and Catman are both remarkably even handed. The obviously take their jobs seriously, but they should. Nameless is just funny.

I agree with that assessment.  Bing-Oh and Cat are rather cool headed.


Unlike me, of course.

[Rupert]

I don't see any of them as bullies. Hounddog and Rohan have both fallen a little bit too hard for their own propoganda, but they mean well and rarely fall into the trap of saying things just to win arguments. Bing-Oh and Catman are both remarkably even handed. The obviously take their jobs seriously, but they should. Nameless is just funny.

Well, if we're gonna name names... I think Catman is good, and bing_oh hasn't been around long enough to make a really good assessment, but he's generally pretty good. Hounddog is the main bully, resorting to football lineman debate tactics, and Rohan just sort of follows him around. I don't even consider Nameless to be a cop.

[hounddog]

Well, if we're gonna name names... I think Catman is good, and bing_oh hasn't been around long enough to make a really good assessment, but he's generally pretty good. Hounddog is the main bully, resorting to football lineman debate tactics, and Rohan just sort of follows him around. I don't even consider Nameless to be a cop.

For the record, I have no problem being named specifically regarding this.  Also for the record, I used to be more even headed.  I have alot of trouble with my temper, something that is new to me these days, and I find myself needing to apologize to people far more often because of it.  My intention is not to be a bully.  If I am being one, I will definately try to correct it.  I am just really passionate about this general topic, and sometimes I display far too much vim and vigor.  I will attempt to curtail some of that in the future. 

As for Randy, I think to say he follows me around is a bit too harsh.  I trained him and was his partner for a few years, so naturally he and I will agree in many areas.  Beyond that, we are like brothers and spend lots of free time together.  He friendship has been unconditional and has helped my family recover from some very bad times.  He has, without any input from me other than the reference phone call, ascended to a high position within only a four year time at his new department.  One that displays just how much he is valued as a police officer within that county.  He is very experienced, and extremely knowledgable even though sometimes not well spoken.  He is a blue~collar fella who is grateful to have been given the opportunities he has.  In my own opinion, most would be lucky to have him as a friend.

[dazzleman]

A friend of mine just got a $300+ ticket for 80 in a 65 and an expired inspection sticker in his Caviler.
It sux because he just got a new truck (2000 F150 V6 5spd 2wd), and he's taking that shitty Cavalier to the scrapyard next week.
What he told me, is that he was actually going the same speed as the traffic around him (5-6 cars doing about 80), and they passed 5-6 cops parked in the median, and every one of those cars got pulled over! The intention there was obviously just to write as many tickets as possible.

What are you angry about Nick?  They were speeding, at well over the limit.  What do you suggest the police do?

If you think the speed limits are too low (as I do in many cases), that's a different issue.  But it's hard to argue against enforcement of laws.  If the laws shouldn't be enforced, then they should be repealed.

Are you for repeal of speed limits?  I know some are, but I am not.

[Eye of the Tiger]

What are you angry about Nick?  They were speeding, at well over the limit.  What do you suggest the police do?

If you think the speed limits are too low (as I do in many cases), that's a different issue.  But it's hard to argue against enforcement of laws.  If the laws shouldn't be enforced, then they should be repealed.

Are you for repeal of speed limits?  I know some are, but I am not.

The police were doing their jobs, and I can't hold that against them. But, the whole idea of what happened is just ridiculous.

I'm angry that they pulled over an entire group of traffic that was going the same speed, and was probably no less safe than if they had been traveling at or below the speed limit.

I should be happy that the crime rates are very low around here, but I'm angry that 5-6 cops had nothing better to do that sit on the side of the highway and point their radar guns at traffic. Is it really about "serving and protecting" at that point? I don't want my taxes paying for that kind of bullshittery.

I'm angry because the vast vast vast vast majority, let's make that 99.9%, of drivers could legally be issued a ticket nearly every time they drive. Any law that turns everybody into a lawbreaker is not a just law. Yet, nobody with any power can fight it, because safety has become directly associated with speed, and nobody wants to promote unsafety.

[hounddog]

I'm angry because the vast vast vast vast majority, let's make that 99.9%, of drivers could legally be issued a ticket nearly every time they drive. Any law that turns everybody into a lawbreaker is not a just law. Yet, nobody with any power can fight it, because safety has become directly associated with speed, and nobody wants to promote unsafety.

Just because people do it does not make it right.  Sorry to include this, but the Bible is pretty clear when it comes to "Obey man's laws."  I know, we all speed including me when I drove.  Unlike most, as an accident investigator and a police officer, I knew first hand the possible dangers of my speeding.

You (not you specifically, you meaning the general public) must understand that the laws of physics are also pretty clear when it comes to speed.  When you multiply speed times mass you get 'unsafe' very quickly regardless of what safety measures are designed into modern cars.  For instance, the damage to a car that hits a post at 5 mph is more than significantly less than if the car was going say 55mph. Included in that is the FACT that as you increase your speed, you are exponentially more likely to become injured in a that crash.  In this case, mathematics and statistics do not lie.  More physical and measurable evidence of that is we have more auto related fatalities than ever before.  IF the modern measures of better roadside traffic crash reducers/barriers and the safety measures built into our cars were enough, we should see fatal and serious injury accidents fall dramatically in correlation.  They have not. 

It has been established by every single accident expert in the world that the faster you go, the more likely you are to be injured in a crash, and the more severe those injuries should be.  Those two things are absolutely synonimous with one another.  What is not included, or eluded to, is that if you go faster the odds of you crashing go up.  But, I do believe that there is evidence to support that depending on a number of variables to include; time of day, weather, road condition (condidtion of the pavement/concrete), level of traffic on the roadway, etc. 

I think that when an officer issues a ticket for speed, most officers genuinely believe they are doing it for the greater good of society.  We are trying to make the roads safer for those around you, not nessecarily you. 

If you live near a major Interstate and can scan the police frequencies, try listening for a while.  The interstates produce an extremely large (and growing) number of cell phone calls to 911 for specific speed or reckless enforcement, often including license plate numbers and descriptions.  I would guess, just a guess at that,  that on average in the Detroit area for one day, most districts or jursdictions receive 20+ calls about bad driving on the freeways.  Whatever the number really is, it is evidence that those calling for an elimination of speed restrictions are in the vast minority.