This weekend our traffic enforcement

[bing_oh]

Michigan requires that right now- but it's noly enforced as a question on a form- "have you applied for work within x number or days?"
All they hadve to do is mark the yes and make up a couple of companies they claim to applied for- and no follow up is done by the welfare people.  Welfare is a joke-

Even if they do followups, it's not like it's difficult to beat the system. They just apply for jobs that they have no chance of getting and aren't qualified for.

How did this get to welfare anyway?  Pretty cool that this thread is so interesting to people.

I'm not exactly sure how we got onto welfare. I may have contributed to the death of the traffic portion of this thread when I went off on James Young...

[rohan]

Even if they do followups, it's not like it's difficult to beat the system. They just apply for jobs that they have no chance of getting and aren't qualified for.

I'm not exactly sure how we got onto welfare. I may have contributed to the death of the traffic portion of this thread when I went off on James Young...

I dont' care where it goes- I think it's cool that people are just that interested in this whole thing.  I didn't realize that the people here are so knowlegable- it makes me feel pretty stupid!

[bing_oh]

Actually, we all just make this shit up. I don't know a damn thing, but my vocabulary makes it sound like I'm intelligent...

[rohan]

 

[Raza]

Actually, we all just make this shit up. I don't know a damn thing, but my vocabulary makes it sound like I'm intelligent...

Not that intelligent...




(You set yourself up for that one)

[GoCougs]

After owning a 10 unit apartment building for a time, I came to the simple conclusion that poor people simply choose to be poor; a choice that is increasingly easier to make with the ever burgening welfare state. IMO, by far and away the number choice is having children out of wedlock.

There will always be poor people - the demographic bell curve is simply an inherent basic fact of the human condition. Leftism's profound failure on the subject begins with rejecting this simple principle.

A while back I gave up on putting much effort into thinking too much about the subject. I've just accepted that it's a natural progression that the US will slide further and further into a (more) socialist state. Simply look to Europe and Canada for the US's fate on the subject. <SHIVERS>

The altruistic actions of trying to flatten the demographic bell curve is in practice a hegemonic class war against the top 80%. It's a war that is somewhat succeeding IMO - just look to the current state of the US House and Senate (DNC control), and the comments of the DNC '08 presidential contenders.

My efforts are far better spent just trying to MYOB myself into an insulating finanical cocoon.

[rohan]

I have no reason for posting that- I just like it. 

[rohan]

We're runnnig another weekend of multiple traffic cars again- I'll let you know the results later.  This weekend we have 3 traffic enforcement only cars on 2 shifts a day for 4 days. 

[TheIntrepid]

This thread is too long. *yawn*

[James Young]

We're runnnig another weekend of multiple traffic cars again- I'll let you know the results later.  This weekend we have 3 traffic enforcement only cars on 2 shifts a day for 4 days. 

There are only three results that matter:  the fatality rate, the injury rate and the crash rate, each per 100 million vehicle miles traveled.  Please let us know what those rates were before this mini-campaign and then after.

[rohan]

There are only three results that matter:  the fatality rate, the injury rate and the crash rate, each per 100 million vehicle miles traveled.  Please let us know what those rates were before this mini-campaign and then after.

Well they;'re OWI enforcement grant cars so that's not even close to the only thing that matters.  But that's not a bad idea- I'll see if I can come up some info on that.  But we're not targeting "everyday" types of crash areas we're focusing on drunk driving - other vehicle/alcohol like open intox- and some other safety stuff but that's not our focus so not sure how that's going to matter?

[James Young]

I guess I forgot this post during my ?unretirement? and return to work, my move and computer replacement.

bing_oh writes on 10/5/07:

Malfeasance, incompetence, and hypocricy?!?! Why the fuck do I even bother responding to you, James? I try to hold a civil discussion and you accuse me and all other police of being narrow-minded, criminal idiots.

So the public shouldn?t point out malfeasance, incompetence and hypocrisy within law enforcement because to do so is an accusation of narrow-mindedness and criminality of all officers?  I don?t think so because to inhibit exposure of wrongdoing and prevent criticism of a public institution undermines the very concepts that the police were created to protect.  Our job as citizens is to observe, comment and work to correct such unacceptable ? many times even criminal --  behavior.  While that includes your role as citizen, you also bear even greater responsibility to expose and correct such bad behavior because of your commission granted by us.  Great authority carries great responsibility.

Disagreement is hardly incivility.  I don?t attack you personally but your mistaken beliefs, your unsupported allegations, and your refusal to examine alternative explanations.
 

Bravo. You figured out how to operate within the system. Why are you still on a message board bitching instead of continuing your lobbying to the politicos?

I still lobby in several places and support others who do so at the federal level.  Message boards can be important to that lobbying effort because somebody who reads what I have to say here may begin to realize that the conventional wisdom is wrong and alter their thinking or their approach to the problem.  Public discourse is drifting into more individual media, Internet forums rather than letters to the editor, niche-market cable rather than CBS, and blogs rather than books. 

I got to watch some of the video footage from Rodney King that the media never thought was good enough for public dissemination. I got to hear the reports from the first officer on the scene, a female, who almost SHOT King before her supervisor showed up on the scene. I watched the "beating" and compaired it to the training for the PR24 baton, realizing that the officers were poorly trained on that particular weapon, were using it incorrectly and contrary to its proper use, and were using it on a man with high levels of cocaine in his system. I got to watch video of Rodney King STANDING UP WITH 6 OFFICERS ON HIS BACK!!! Rodney king was the biggest bunch of media-induced, whitewashed bullshit of the 20th century!

Rodney King is a very limited individual, borderline retarded with an IQ of 84 and certainly incapable of rational decisions.  However, Rodney King isn?t the important factor in this entire episode.  The important factor present here that was absent in 20+ years of prior allegations of police abuse is George Holliday?s video tape.  Until the tape surfaced on KTLA, LAPD treated the King arrest as ?just another [minority] resisting arrest.?  And I have seen the whole original tape during some graduate classes at UCLA.

That first female officer ? Chippie-trainee Melanie Singer ? had her gun drawn with King in position with his hands on the roof of the car but it was LAPD Sgt. Stacey Koon who took over and immediately tasered King, telling Officer Singer that they would take care of it from there.  King was certainly disrespectful ? waving at the helicopter and grabbing his butt ? but disrespect is hardly a crime except in the minds of cops.

The tape was undeniable proof that the allegations were true, that LAPD (and other regional agencies) were abusing minorities.  Here was proof of officers kicking a suspect, something that they had denied. 

Once again we have an officer trying to excuse the beating by retreating to jargon ? ?training for the PR24 baton? ? and unsubstantiated claims.  King was intoxicated on alcohol.  However, toxicology results show that he had no PCP in his system contrary to the usual claims of police apologists and the specific allegations of Sgt. Koon who called King ?dusted.?  We do not know if he tested positive for cocaine.

Trying to turn this into mutual combat rather than an uncontrolled savage beating has been the sine qua non of police apologists since the event.  The emphasis has been on justifying what we did see because of what we did not see but is merely alleged. 

What the police refuse to understand is that this is not what we the public want to see from them.  The behavior exhibited on the tape is unacceptable and can be neither justified nor even rationalized.  To me, the saddest part of this whole sorry episode is that instead of using the incident as a wakeup call and correcting policy, procedure and actual behavior to comport more closely with societal wishes and benefit, law enforcement continues to try to justify actions that the rest of the world condemns. 

"Viewed from the outside, it was hard to understand how the verdict could possibly square with the video."  George H. W. Bush

Rodney King, a very large violent crack addict, should have been shot when the first officer arrived on the scene.

Now, that is frightening.  Are you sure that you want to assume the role of judge, jury and executioner as well as officer?

BTW, the very first officers ? Chippies Tim and Melanie Singer ? reported that King was ?speeding? on the 210 at an estimated but unmeasured 120 mph in his Hyundai Excell, a car limited to about 80 mph.  Melanie later altered her story during testimony that the actual chase speeds were ?50 mph? and that King had stopped for a traffic signal after exiting the freeway. Thus, the entire stop was predicated upon false premises.   

Let's talk about the LA Riots. Yea, that was all about Rodney King and pent-up racial discord. No better way to show your outrage over racial mistreatment than to BURN NEIGHBORHOODS COMPRISED MOSTLY OF MINORITY RESIDENTS, right? Yea, nothing says "we want better treatment" than stealing TV's. Want to know why the LAPD didn't respond to your calls during the riots? BECAUSE THEY WERE OVERWHELMED WITH TRYING TO CONTROL RIOTS!!!! Even the largest police forces in the nation are miniscule compaired to the number of people that they police.

Do not assume that I agree with the rioters? actions; I do not.  Let?s see your evidence that LAPD was ?overwhelmed with trying to control riots.?  They were not; they abandoned the area.

Also, do not overlook the arrogance of LAPD, the change of venue to Simi Valley, where many LAPD cops live, the stacked jury, and the sham trial.  The very idea that they could and should get away with it is stunning. 

Let's talk about Waco. . . .Don't spout off the conspiracy theory bullshit...I'm not swallowing it.

Glad to see that you?re so open-minded about learning from mistakes. . .

I'm done with your crap, James. I'm done pounding my head into the wall. I'm done with taking your snide comments and your insults. Argue with somebody else.

Respond or don?t.  My goal here is hardly to elicit specific responses but to present a different perspective to those who would otherwise not even hear it much less consider anything outside that same tired old institutional mantra.  If the truth is snide and insulting then so be it. 

[rohan]

I guess I forgot this post during my “unretirement” and return to work, my move and computer replacement.

bing_oh writes on 10/5/07:

So the public shouldn’t point out malfeasance, incompetence and hypocrisy within law enforcement because to do so is an accusation of narrow-mindedness and criminality of all officers? 

No but calling all cops stupid and uneducated is insulting. 

[dazzleman]

I made it home from a trip to Boston without any tickets, despite going well over the speed limit almost the whole way.....

How's that for the effectiveness of traffic enforcment? 

[J86]

I made it home from a trip to Boston without any tickets, despite going well over the speed limit almost the whole way.....

How's that for the effectiveness of traffic enforcment? 

Only problem with rubbing it in is at some point you know youre gonna get screwed

[GoCougs]

Now that I changed jobs (used to work from home) I now commute ~60 miles a day (have been doing so for the last month). I never do the speed limit, and at least a couple times each way I use the carpool lane to zip around left lane slow pokes. I certainly have it coming, but a ticket every so often is worth keeping pace with traffic or otherwise being prudent.

[James Young]

rohan writes:

No but calling all cops stupid and uneducated is insulting.

If find such a person, I?ll condemn them.  While we enjoy many rights as human beings, not being insulted is not one of them.

Make no doubt, there are stupid and uneducated cops just as there are stupid and uneducated lawyers, teachers and artists.  However, as a rule, cops are better educated and brighter than the populace as a whole.  My issue is not with their abilities but with their performance and their refusal to clean up their own house.  As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Every day we?re assaulted with news of police incompetence or corruption ? not to mention the overzealous enforcement of superfluous laws ? and extremely rarely does exposure come at the hands of other cops.  Pointing that out is hardly insulting.

[dazzleman]

Only problem with rubbing it in is at some point you know youre gonna get screwed

I know, but it's still worth it.  I can handle it, man....

[dazzleman]

Now that I changed jobs (used to work from home) I now commute ~60 miles a day (have been doing so for the last month). I never do the speed limit, and at least a couple times each way I use the carpool lane to zip around left lane slow pokes. I certainly have it coming, but a ticket every so often is worth keeping pace with traffic or otherwise being prudent.

From what you've said in the past, I never got the impression that you were a lead-foot.  I got the impression that you're the type of guy who does 10 mph or less over the speed limit.

I agree with you that a ticket every so often is worth it, in order to be able to maintain a reasonable speed.

[J86]

I know, but it's still worth it.  I can handle it, man....

I know you can!  It's us poor starving college kids who cant!!

[dazzleman]

I know you can!  It's us poor starving college kids who cant!!

That doesn't seem to stop you from indulging your disordus rightus footus.....guys like you just can't help living on the edge...

[J86]

That doesn't seem to stop you from indulging your disordus rightus footus.....guys like you just can't help living on the edge...

That's gonna hafta be on hold for a bit, right now it's deer 1, Accord 0

[Catman]

rohan writes:

If find such a person, I?ll condemn them.  While we enjoy many rights as human beings, not being insulted is not one of them.

Make no doubt, there are stupid and uneducated cops just as there are stupid and uneducated lawyers, teachers and artists.  However, as a rule, cops are better educated and brighter than the populace as a whole.  My issue is not with their abilities but with their performance and their refusal to clean up their own house.  As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

Every day we?re assaulted with news of police incompetence or corruption ? not to mention the overzealous enforcement of superfluous laws ? and extremely rarely does exposure come at the hands of other cops.  Pointing that out is hardly insulting.

Incompetence is a government trademark and the police are not immune from it.  Unfortunately, unlike good private sector companies, government doesn't put the resources into leadership and management development that it should.  I believe most of the organizational problems stem from that and the fact that unions stifle any progress in that direction because it often ties in directly to accountability. But, I've been involved with local government both at work and the town I live in to realize that taxpayers don't value a higher level of training for managers either.  No one wants to pay for it.  So, in a round about way that adage about getting the government one deserves is true on this level also.

[dazzleman]

Incompetence is a government trademark and the police are not immune from it.  Unfortunately, unlike good private sector companies, government doesn't put the resources into leadership and management development that it should.  I believe most of the organizational problems stem from that and the fact that unions stifle any progress in that direction because it often ties in directly to accountability. But, I've been involved with local government both at work and the town I live in to realize that taxpayers don't value a higher level of training for managers either.  No one wants to pay for it.  So, in a round about way that adage about getting the government one deserves is true on this level also.

People definitely get the government they deserve.  The major achilles heel to self-government is that most of the public is notoriously short-sighted.  They don't want to deal with any problem until it's a crisis.  The training is a perfect issue; the public doesn't want to pay for it, but then will complain about the effects from the lack of it.

OTOH, you can't blame everything on the public.  Much of government is inherently wasteful, and that has made the public skeptical when government tells them something is 'needed.'

[TheIntrepid]

Now that I changed jobs (used to work from home) I now commute ~60 miles a day (have been doing so for the last month). I never do the speed limit, and at least a couple times each way I use the carpool lane to zip around left lane slow pokes. I certainly have it coming, but a ticket every so often is worth keeping pace with traffic or otherwise being prudent.

GoPubes, don't use the carpool lane. Only jackasses do that.

[Raza]

GoPubes, don't use the carpool lane. Only jackasses do that.

He uses carpool lanes to pass people, not to commute in.  Hell, I've used shoulders before when I was really in a hurry.

[Eye of the Tiger]

He uses carpool lanes to pass people, not to commute in.  Hell, I've used shoulders before when I was really in a hurry.

Passing on shoulders... sometimes you just have no choice.

[Soup DeVille]

GoPubes, don't use the carpool lane. Only jackasses do that.

If I lived in an area that had carpool lanes: and one that also opened them up to hybrid vehicles: I would have no choice but to buy an older Insight and swap an ITR engine into it...

[bing_oh]

People definitely get the government they deserve.  The major achilles heel to self-government is that most of the public is notoriously short-sighted.  They don't want to deal with any problem until it's a crisis.  The training is a perfect issue; the public doesn't want to pay for it, but then will complain about the effects from the lack of it.

OTOH, you can't blame everything on the public.  Much of government is inherently wasteful, and that has made the public skeptical when government tells them something is 'needed.'

It's true that much of the government is inherently wasteful...usually the bigger the government, the more waste there is. That inherent waste not only makes the public cynical but hurts the "worker bees" in government who actually do the nuts and bolts work that serves the public directly. After all, do you think the high muckamucks in their ivory towers do without when the funding gets cut because the public has become cynical with overspending? Nope. It's the actual workers who go without...and have to keep doing the jobs that the public needs without proper resources.

[Catman]

It's true that much of the government is inherently wasteful...usually the bigger the government, the more waste there is. That inherent waste not only makes the public cynical but hurts the "worker bees" in government who actually do the nuts and bolts work that serves the public directly. After all, do you think the high muckamucks in their ivory towers do without when the funding gets cut because the public has become cynical with overspending? Nope. It's the actual workers who go without...and have to keep doing the jobs that the public needs without proper resources.

Hear hear