Saw a new Accord sedan in the flesh

[Morris Minor]

All of these are top-of-the-line spec EX models.

1993 Accord 185.3" long, weight NA
1997 Accord 188.4", 3285 lbs.
2002 Accord 189.4", 3,329 lbs.
2007 Accord 191.1", 3,435 lbs.
2008 Accord 194.3, 3,600 lbs.

2007 Acura TSX 183.5", 3,257 lbs.

UK-Spec Honda Accord (length: 183.7")
2.0i EX
Weight: 3009 lbs (manual). 3088 lbs (auto)
2.4i EX
Weight: 3082 lbs (manual). 3167 lbs (auto)

[565]

Hey guess what guys.  This weekend I've been driving the Camry, Altima and Accord (08) snoozefest trio.  My folks wanted to buy a basic runaround for around 20K that was easier on fuel, the kind of car they could leave parked anywhere and not worry about dings etc. I decided to tag along cause I have no life.  I guess my parents really are getting old, because my father used to be into sports cars (he used to own the Supra) but now I guess he likes quiet and easy to drive. 

Well anyway my mom invited me to tag along cause they know I'm car crazy and would never forgive them if they bought anything without my advice first.  The 3 of us switched off driving so we all got a feel for the cars.  We looked at the Camry LE (no options), Altima S (no options), and the Accord LX (no options).  All were around 20K.

First we looked at the Camry.  Well I first sat in the back while my father drove it around.  The back seat seemed rather roomy.  I will say I felt that the Camry had the best structure.  It felt rock solid.  You can feel some bumps but you can never hear them. Overall sitting in the Camry, I was rather impressed.  Then I took the wheel.  The Camry's brakes are easy to modulate, and I didn't push it at all so I couldn't say much about handling.  The steering was light, it wasn't bad.  Acceleration was slow, and the 4 banger was buzzy and loud.  The Camry came with a power seat, which was nice.

Then we took the Altima for a Spin.  Even the base S trim comes with starter button and intelligent key.  The backseat room was a little tight.  The brakes were a bit grabby and the car seemed to dive a bit under braking.  The engine power was much better than the Camry, and the CVT was fun.  Handling was good too the car felt light on it's feet, and it was fun to shift up and down gears with the CVT selector.

Finally it was the 08 Accord.  The rear seat is huge, my legs are almost not long enough to make the cushion comfortable.  The exterior isn't that bad looking in person.  The car didn't look as big in person as I thought it would.  The Accord's small steering wheel felt alot better than the others.  The dash wasn't any better or worse than the others.  All materials in this class seemed to have gone down some.  The steering feel seemed to be better than the others, but didn't return to center as eagerly.  The structure for some reason didn't feel as solid as the Camry's and it seemed to crash over bumps. 

In the end my mother absolutely didn't care which one my father bought, they seemed all the same to her. This was rather annoying because we just couldn't milk a opinion out of her. My father was completely against the Camry, I personally didn't see what was wrong with it, he just didn't like it.  He had a hard time choosing between the Accord and the Altima.  I asked him if he liked the starter button, he said no.  What about the CVT, he didn't care about that either.  His main reason for liking the Altima was because of the chrome dual tailpipes instead of a single pipe. Ultimately I told him that he should get the Accord, because it comes with VSC while the Altima does not.  He and my mother have both lost control of their cars in the rain before.

So anyway today they just finished the paperwork on a Silver (snore) 2008 Accord.  I'm very happy with their decision.  The Accord is one of those cars that you may not want to drive yourself, but you definitely want your loved ones to drive. 

[CJ]

Pics?

[Raza]

Should have gotten Refrigerator White!

I don't know anything about the current Altima, but the last one was pretty bad (the 2.5, anyway).  Terrible materials, weak interior design, coarse, rough engine, and loads of wind and tire noise.

Basically you came to the same conclusion that most magazines do.

[TheIntrepid]

Should have gotten Refrigerator White!

I don't know anything about the current Altima, but the last one was pretty bad (the 2.5, anyway).  Terrible materials, weak interior design, coarse, rough engine, and loads of wind and tire noise.

Basically you came to the same conclusion that most magazines do.

Weak interior design?

[/img]


As opposed to..


[URL=http://www.netcarshow.com/mazda/2002-6_sedan/]

And the 2002-2006 Camry interior sucks ass too.

[Raza]

That's the newest Altima...

[Submariner]

Weak interior design?

[/img]


As opposed to..


[URL=http://www.netcarshow.com/mazda/2002-6_sedan/]

And the 2002-2006 Camry interior sucks ass too.

The Interior design is worse on the new one (IMO) but the materials are better (only slightly, though)

[Morris Minor]

Basically you came to the same conclusion that most magazines do.

Except that he tested the base models; magazines usually get the luxury-laden versions with the big engines.  In their way I think base versions reveal a lot more about manufacturers' integrity than their six cylinder gadget-laden, leather-lined cocoons.

[Raza]

Except that he tested the base models; magazines usually get the luxury-laden versions with the big engines.  In their way I think base versions reveal a lot more about manufacturers' integrity than their six cylinder gadget-laden, leather-lined cocoons.

Plus they're more representative of the majority of cars sold.  I agree.

[the Teuton]

UK-Spec Honda Accord (length: 183.7")
2.0i EX
Weight: 3009 lbs (manual). 3088 lbs (auto)
2.4i EX
Weight: 3082 lbs (manual). 3167 lbs (auto)

I hope Honda doesn't screw up the next TSX.  They have the formula down perfectly, IMO.

[565]

Alright I dropped by my folks place and took their new baby for a bit of a spin now that they've brought it home.  First off I understand now what they mean when they say Accords have road noise.  There was alot of road noise. It various from thuds and bumps to a constant roar over rough roads. Also there seems to be a shocking lack of sound deadening in the Accord.  For example when I'm sitting inside my Z06 I can barely hear the crickets chirping and speech from people outside is severely muffled.  When I climbed inside the Accord and closed the door, I could hear the crickets and my father's voice very clearly outside.  Maybe the higher level Accords have more sound proofing.

I climbed in the back seat just to confirm my previous observations.  The backseat is huge, it's a better place to be than the front seats.  The grey interior theme is rather dull.  The beige one looked better, but was unavailable in silver.  I have to say that the trunk is alarmingly flimsy.  I felt I could tear the thin sheet metal apart with my bare hands. When starting the car the 4 cylinder seems to have a bit of vibration, it was the same with the other three.  Actually driving the car, experience is alright.  I can't really say much about it.  It goes and turns and stops, and ummmmmm that's about it.  The steering is heavier than the Camry's, and I've sorta forgotten how much steering effort the Altima had.  Seriously all these cars are so forgetable that the memory of all these test drives is rapidly leaking from my brain as I type.

I'll try to get some pics later.  The more I look at it, the more okay it becomes.  I'm glad I got to drive so many family sedans.  It makes me realize that they aren't leaps and bounds easier to drive or more civilized than my Z06.  Seriously cruising at around 80mph on the highway, the Accord wasn't that much more quiet or compliant than the Z06.

I think if I was spending my own money I'd get the Altima.  That CVT transmission was the single fun thing about any of these three cars, it's responses were video game sharp (though you do kind of feel silly because it will accelerate faster in D anyway).  Still in terms of safety features, the Accord came with VSC and tire pressure monitoring standard, and that was a definite advantage.

[TheIntrepid]

Can't wait to see pics!

[the Teuton]

When did Honda start differentiating the Accord for different markets?

[omicron]

When did Honda start differentiating the Accord for different markets?

Fifth generation, I believe - 1994. There were different engines and trim for different markets in previous generations, but the fifth generation was the first time there was a fundamentally different car for two markets.

The US, Australia and Japan got this:



and Europe got this:

[ifcar]

That's just a minor restyle; it seems to be the same car.

[FordSVT]

Ford Taurus - 3650 lbs (V6)
Toyota Camry - 3307 lbs (4 banger)
Chevrolet Impala - 3555 lbs (V6)
Hyundai Azera - 3629 lbs (V6)
Ford Fusion - 3158 lbs (4 banger)
Ford Fusion - 3280 lbs (V6)

The only large sedan that weighs less that I could find is the Ford Fusion.  I didn't realize it was so light.  It's too bad Ford didn't make it sportier with that weight.

Outside of the Mazda 6, I challenge you to find any mid-sized sedan in that price-range that handles as well as the Fusion. Even the new Altima has lost some of it's sportiness. Could it have been a better handler? Probably, but then all the people who buy new Accords and Camrys would bitch that it wasn't soft enough.

IMO, it's kind of sad to see the always light, sporty, nicely packaged Accord go the way of the Camry. I guess I'll have to drive one to find out if the handling's gone to the crapper, but the looks certainly do nothing for me.

On the bright side, it could have looked like a larger Civic.

[omicron]

That's just a minor restyle; it seems to be the same car.

Says Wiki:

'In 1994, the Honda Accord was moved to a yet larger "CD" chassis, primarily to better suit the requirements of the North American market. It grew in width but oddly shrunk in length, leaving it classified as a compact car in North America. It thus became too wide to fit within the favorable tax bracket in Japan, where its role was to be partially taken over by the smaller second-generation Honda Ascot and Honda Rafaga.

The launch of the CD Accord also marked the first time Honda marketed a Europe-only Accord model, made in its Swindon factory in the United Kingdom. The European Accord sedan was, however, not related directly to the CD Accords, but rather to the previous CB Accord, as it was a slightly reworked version of the above mentioned Honda Ascot Innova. The Swindon-built Accord sedan was accompanied in European markets by the coupe and Aerodeck estate imported from the US. Concurrently, the British Rover Group, Honda's partner at that time, launched a model called Rover 600, which was developed together with the European Accord sedan.'

This is the Ascot Innova; a JDM-only sedan based on the fourth-generation Accord, and released in Europe with some styling changes as their fifth-generation Accord:

[565]

I called the folks today to ask them how their new ride is.  Naturally my mother has already made a list of everything that is wrong with it. 

1) the head rest makes her head dip forward too much.
2) the tire roar is too much over some roads.
3) there is a rustling wind noise over 75mph, she thinks the window seal is bad.
4) there is a rattling noise from the rear of the car.
5) the range of the keyless entry is pitiful even on a full charge
6) the radio is really bad
7) alot of the trim pieces were flimsy
8) she has also noticed that the trunk is flimsy as well.
9) she says alot of the panel gaps were ill fitting and inconsistant
10) there is an awful lot of vibration through the steering wheel at idle (I noticed this too)

I kinda wonder how I managed to miss all this during the test drive, as it didn't seem to compare too poorly to the Altima and Camry then.  I did notice the poor quality materials (which the Camry and Altima all have too), the slightly poor fitting panel gaps, the road noise, and the steering wheel vibration when I drove the car later.   And now she says she always liked the Altima better.  At this my father and I got rather angry and asked her why she didn't just tell us she preferred the Altima in the first place, then she wouldn't have been stuck with a car she didn't like.  During the buying process she acted completely neutral to all of the cars (except saying no to the G35).

I will say that I personally thought that the Altima did look better built, was more fun to drive because of the CVT, and noticably quieter and maybe a touch smoother.  Honda really got my parents' money this time because I was trying to push VSC on them (their reflexes aren't what they used to be).  If Nissan and Toyota fitted VSC onto their cars as standard, then I can't see too many convincing reasons to get the Accord.

[TheIntrepid]

Says Wiki:

This is the Ascot Innova; a JDM-only sedan based on the fourth-generation Accord, and released in Europe with some styling changes as their fifth-generation Accord:

How is Toyota able to use the name "Innova" to name this Indian market car, if Honda already had the name?

[TheIntrepid]

1) the head rest makes her head dip forward too much.
2) the tire roar is too much over some roads.
3) there is a rustling wind noise over 75mph, she thinks the window seal is bad.
4) there is a rattling noise from the rear of the car.
5) the range of the keyless entry is pitiful even on a full charge
6) the radio is really bad
7) alot of the trim pieces were flimsy
8) she has also noticed that the trunk is flimsy as well.
9) she says alot of the panel gaps were ill fitting and inconsistant
10) there is an awful lot of vibration through the steering wheel at idle (I noticed this too)

I kinda wonder how I managed to miss all this during the test drive, as it didn't seem to compare too poorly to the Altima and Camry then.  I did notice the poor quality materials (which the Camry and Altima all have too), the slightly poor fitting panel gaps, the road noise, and the steering wheel vibration when I drove the car later.   And now she says she always liked the Altima better.  At this my father and I got rather angry and asked her why she didn't just tell us she preferred the Altima in the first place, then she wouldn't have been stuck with a car she didn't like.  During the buying process she acted completely neutral to all of the cars (except saying no to the G35).

I will say that I personally thought that the Altima did look better built, was more fun to drive because of the CVT, and noticably quieter and maybe a touch smoother.  Honda really got my parents' money this time because I was trying to push VSC on them (their reflexes aren't what they used to be).  If Nissan and Toyota fitted VSC onto their cars as standard, then I can't see too many convincing reasons to get the Accord.

My Camry Hybrid has VSC standard. I don't know if the base model has it or not.

The materials on the Camry feel nice, and they look well put-together. The Camry's outside door handles feel a little flimsy, which they don't on teh Altima.

I don't feel any vibration and I've had the car up to its limit. It's amazingly smooth at that speed, even more so than the Intrepid is past 180-190km/h.

I can't say anything about the radio, since my Camry's got the JBL premium stereo.

In conclusion, I do say that the Camry Hybrid is the car my mom bitches about the least. She's complained about every car our family has ever had, including the Touareg and the W116 300SD my dad once had, but so far not a peep about the Camry.

[the Teuton]

I called the folks today to ask them how their new ride is.  Naturally my mother has already made a list of everything that is wrong with it. 

1) the head rest makes her head dip forward too much.
2) the tire roar is too much over some roads.
3) there is a rustling wind noise over 75mph, she thinks the window seal is bad.
4) there is a rattling noise from the rear of the car.
5) the range of the keyless entry is pitiful even on a full charge
6) the radio is really bad
7) alot of the trim pieces were flimsy
8) she has also noticed that the trunk is flimsy as well.
9) she says alot of the panel gaps were ill fitting and inconsistant
10) there is an awful lot of vibration through the steering wheel at idle (I noticed this too)

I kinda wonder how I managed to miss all this during the test drive, as it didn't seem to compare too poorly to the Altima and Camry then.  I did notice the poor quality materials (which the Camry and Altima all have too), the slightly poor fitting panel gaps, the road noise, and the steering wheel vibration when I drove the car later.   And now she says she always liked the Altima better.  At this my father and I got rather angry and asked her why she didn't just tell us she preferred the Altima in the first place, then she wouldn't have been stuck with a car she didn't like.  During the buying process she acted completely neutral to all of the cars (except saying no to the G35).

I will say that I personally thought that the Altima did look better built, was more fun to drive because of the CVT, and noticably quieter and maybe a touch smoother.  Honda really got my parents' money this time because I was trying to push VSC on them (their reflexes aren't what they used to be).  If Nissan and Toyota fitted VSC onto their cars as standard, then I can't see too many convincing reasons to get the Accord.

I have to ask, why didn't they broaden the spectrum for shopping to, say, a Saturn Aura, if they weren't completely satisfied with what their choices had to offer.  As much as some may disagree, there's always a better car out there for the money.

[565]

I have to ask, why didn't they broaden the spectrum for shopping to, say, a Saturn Aura, if they weren't completely satisfied with what their choices had to offer.  As much as some may disagree, there's always a better car out there for the money.

Cause they are Asian, and middle aged.  They only would consider the Japanese big three and assume no one else can properly build a car.  I even dragged my father out to a Subaru dealer, but he flat out refused to drive a Legacy.  I wasn't even gonna attempt to get them to drive a domestic car. Every time either of my parents see the interior on the Z06 they just poke the dash plastics and shake their heads.

[SVT666]

Outside of the Mazda 6, I challenge you to find any mid-sized sedan in that price-range that handles as well as the Fusion. Even the new Altima has lost some of it's sportiness. Could it have been a better handler? Probably, but then all the people who buy new Accords and Camrys would bitch that it wasn't soft enough.

That's very true, although the Mazda6 is smaller then the Fusion as well.  The Fusion handles well, but it certainly isn't sporty.  I wish Ford would build an SVT version with a turbo and AWD.

[the Teuton]

Cause they are Asian, and middle aged.  They only would consider the Japanese big three and assume no one else can properly build a car.  I even dragged my father out to a Subaru dealer, but he flat out refused to drive a Legacy.  I wasn't even gonna attempt to get them to drive a domestic car. Every time either of my parents see the interior on the Z06 they just poke the dash plastics and shake their heads.

On both the Subaru and the domestic offerings, I can say that they are truly missing out.  They did not buy the best car for the money if they are still complaining about it.  You're supposed to buy a car if it makes you feel happy -- not just for A to B transport.  They lost, IMO.

That's very true, although the Mazda6 is smaller then the Fusion as well.  The Fusion handles well, but it certainly isn't sporty.  I wish Ford would build an SVT version with a turbo and AWD.

I couldn't agree more.  Mazdaspeed Fusion...or maybe just a turbo Duratec.

[SVT666]

I couldn't agree more.  Mazdaspeed Fusion...or maybe just a turbo Duratec.

I would buy an SVT Fusion if one came out on the market.  A 350 hp AWD Fusion with a 6 speed transmission.  I bet Panama_Chopster could make a Fusion look pretty damn cool too.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I would buy an SVT Fusion if one came out on the market.  A 350 hp AWD Fusion with a 6 speed transmission.  I bet Panama_Chopster could make a Fusion look pretty damn cool too.

Hells yeah. Getting rid of those fugly-ass chrome grilles is a good start.
FS Werks was supposed to develop a turbo kit for the 2.3 Fusion a couple of years ago, but I don't know what happened to that.
These days, when V6 Camry's do 0-60 in 6 seconds, Ford just needs to drop a V-8 in there make it RWD. In a sedan the size of the Fusion, that would be kick ass.

[Raghavan]

Hells yeah. Getting rid of those fugly-ass chrome grilles is a good start.
FS Werks was supposed to develop a turbo kit for the 2.3 Fusion a couple of years ago, but I don't know what happened to that.
These days, when V6 Camry's do 0-60 in 6 seconds, Ford just needs to drop a V-8 in there make it RWD. In a sedan the size of the Fusion, that would be kick ass.

They should make the Fusion on a stretched RX-8 platform.

[Vinsanity]

Cause they are Asian, and middle aged.  They only would consider the Japanese big three and assume no one else can properly build a car.  I even dragged my father out to a Subaru dealer, but he flat out refused to drive a Legacy.  I wasn't even gonna attempt to get them to drive a domestic car. Every time either of my parents see the interior on the Z06 they just poke the dash plastics and shake their heads.

LOL my parents are Asian and closing in on 60, and on separate occasions almost ended up with a Ford 500 and later a Buick Lucerne in their driveway. Both times, depreciation ended up being the deal breaker.

[Eye of the Tiger]

LOL my parents are Asian and closing in on 60, and on separate occasions almost ended up with a Ford 500 and later a Buick Lucerne in their driveway. Both times, depreciation ended up being the deal breaker.

I just have to say, I think it's completely retarded that depreciation is calculated even before a new model comes out - based purely on the name of the car - people are just assholes.
(not your parents, just all people (BTW, I'm not saying your parents aren't people - I'm sure they are good people (I hate people, but I'm not saying I hate you parents (I don't even know your parents))))

[the Teuton]

Look at Eddie.  His family likes Fords for some reason.  He's an exception to a rule.