New BMW 1er tii

[Raza]

Got a link?

If so, that's a little discouraging, unless BMW somehow made them significantly more hard-edged (which I doubt, because while the 3er is refined, the steering feel really is E36-esque). In my mind, the main thing the 1er had going for it was that I thought it would be significantly lighter and thus a rocket.

UK figures, so they might not translate perfectly:
135i M Sport Coupe:  1560kg (unladen, manual), 3,439lb.
335i M Sport Coupe:  1600kg (unladen, manual), 3,527lb.

They're both fat fuckers. 

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Got a link?

If so, that's a little discouraging, unless BMW somehow made them significantly more hard-edged (which I doubt, because while the 3er is refined, the steering feel really is E36-esque). In my mind, the main thing the 1er had going for it was that I thought it would be significantly lighter and thus a rocket.

http://forums.caranddriver.com/auto/board/message?board.id=BMW&thread.id=171

[LonghornTX]

What weight savings materials are on the E92?  Last I heard the E92 weighs more than the E90. 

A greater amount of the suspension on the E90/E92 is built out of aluminum than on the E83/E87.  In addition, the E92 uses plastic front fenders to reduce weight.

And no, the e92 does not weight more than the e90.

[LonghornTX]

Yeah, but the E92 is a significantly larger car. No matter how many weight saving materials are used, I would think the 1er should still be a lot lighter...

But what do I know...

BMW just updated their information and it shows that 135i is 198lbs lighter than the 335i coupe.  For a car that employs less of the weight saving measures I mentioned in my other post, I think that is to be expected.

Ever wonder why the 535i is less than 100lbs heavier than the 335i sedan?  Same thing, the increased price point allows BMW to further utilize pricey weight saving options.

[LonghornTX]

UK figures, so they might not translate perfectly:
135i M Sport Coupe:  1560kg (unladen, manual), 3,439lb.
335i M Sport Coupe:  1600kg (unladen, manual), 3,527lb.

They're both fat fuckers. 

They are heavy, but they are not bare bones race cars either.  BTW, BMW lists the 135i as 3373lbs on their website now, so it is not THAT bad, especially compared to some contemporaries like the new EVO and Mustang, even the R32 last I checked.  It even is pretty close to a 350z which lacks rear seats. 

Maybe whatever the Tii comes as will be lighter?  But the fact is, modern cars are getting heavy and pretty much no car in this price range with this amount of power will ever be under 3000lbs again, at least until lightweight composites become more cost feasible.

[r0tor]

UK figures, so they might not translate perfectly:
135i M Sport Coupe:  1560kg (unladen, manual), 3,439lb.
335i M Sport Coupe:  1600kg (unladen, manual), 3,527lb.

They're both fat fuckers. 

keep in mind that BMW's unladen weigh includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 165lb driver, and another 20 or so pounds of junk in the trunk

[Raza]

keep in mind that BMW's unladen weigh includes a 90% full fuel tank, a 165lb driver, and another 20 or so pounds of junk in the trunk

Supposedly.

[sandertheshark]

UK figures, so they might not translate perfectly:
135i M Sport Coupe:  1560kg (unladen, manual), 3,439lb.
335i M Sport Coupe:  1600kg (unladen, manual), 3,527lb.

They're both fat fuckers. 

That's not fat.  Compared to an Audi S5, that's anorexic.

[TheIntrepid]

That's not fat.  Compared to an Audi S5, that's anorexic.

How much does the S5 weigh?

[LonghornTX]

How much does the S5 weigh?

I think ~3800lbs, though it is not easy find the exact number on the Audi website.

[MidnightDave]

I'm seriously thinking about a 135 with Euro delivery to replace the MINI as a track car / DD...maybe I'll wait till the 2nd year of production, though, they typically clean up a few niggly complaints--of course, it's been in Europe for a while, so...

[sportyaccordy]

Doesn't unladen by definition mean, not burdened by superfluous weight? Why would BMW publish curb weight figures with a driver, gas, etc. included? There's no way a 535i weighs 3400# w/nobody in it, etc...

This thing is a porker. Money-wise it is a bargain. However, the E92 is more practical, and it looks 2222222200000000000000000x better. I would gladly pay the premium if the weight savings are not there...

Now again, if they had some kind of 4-cyl model, then we'd be cooking with grease. A 200HP screamer would be perfect for the 1...

[Raza]

I'm seriously thinking about a 135 with Euro delivery to replace the MINI as a track car / DD...maybe I'll wait till the 2nd year of production, though, they typically clean up a few niggly complaints--of course, it's been in Europe for a while, so...

Yeah, I don't think you need to bother with a bug cleaning period for a car that's been out in Europe for almost two years.

[LonghornTX]

Doesn't unladen by definition mean, not burdened by superfluous weight? Why would BMW publish curb weight figures with a driver, gas, etc. included? There's no way a 535i weighs 3400# w/nobody in it, etc...

This thing is a porker. Money-wise it is a bargain. However, the E92 is more practical, and it looks 2222222200000000000000000x better. I would gladly pay the premium if the weight savings are not there...

Now again, if they had some kind of 4-cyl model, then we'd be cooking with grease. A 200HP screamer would be perfect for the 1...

I guess it is all relative.  I like the 135i's more aggressive design compared with the flowing, almost japanese like design of the E92.  It is more BMW-esque IMO.

I also really don't understand why everyone labels the 135i as a porker.  Compared to what?  The 135i is essentially the same weight as a 350z yet it also has a set of rear seats.  It is lighter (by published figures) than the Mustang GT, A3 3.2, R32, upcoming EVO,  and G37.  The point is, 3373 lbs for a car with this amount of power, luxory, and the price isn't that bad.

[CALL_911]

I guess it is all relative.  I like the 135i's more aggressive design compared with the flowing, almost japanese like design of the E92.  It is more BMW-esque IMO.

I also really don't understand why everyone labels the 135i as a porker.  Compared to what?  The 135i is essentially the same weight as a 350z yet it also has a set of rear seats.  It is lighter (by published figures) than the Mustang GT, A3 3.2, R32, upcoming EVO,  and G37.  The point is, 3373 lbs for a car with this amount of power, luxory, and the price isn't that bad.

Yeah, the weight isn't bad at all.

[Raza]

I guess it is all relative.  I like the 135i's more aggressive design compared with the flowing, almost japanese like design of the E92.  It is more BMW-esque IMO.

I also really don't understand why everyone labels the 135i as a porker.  Compared to what?  The 135i is essentially the same weight as a 350z yet it also has a set of rear seats.  It is lighter (by published figures) than the Mustang GT, A3 3.2, R32, upcoming EVO,  and G37.  The point is, 3373 lbs for a car with this amount of power, luxory, and the price isn't that bad.

If you put a fat guy in a room of fat guys, does he become less fat?

[sandertheshark]

If you put a fat guy in a room of fat guys, does he become less fat?

relatively, yes.

[Raza]

relatively, yes.

Relatively. 

Whatever, man.  If you guys are happy with all cars getting too heavy, then that's fine.  If you think 3400 pounds is an acceptable weight for a compact car, then I don't know what to do with you.



That really is true, then.

[Raghavan]

Relatively. 

Whatever, man.  If you guys are happy with all cars getting too heavy, then that's fine.  If you think 3400 pounds is an acceptable wait for a compact car, then I don't know what to do with you.

Raza made a grammar mistake??

[the Teuton]

And this is why I want a 2,200 lbs. BMW, right?

[Raghavan]

And I thought the 1er would come in at about 2900-3k lbs...
3300 lbs sucks bigtime. Isn't the Audi A4 even lighter?

[Raza]

Raza made a grammar mistake??

It's been a long day.  Even happens to me.  Mind thinks "weight", says "weight", and the fingers type "wait". 

[Raghavan]

It's been a long day.  Even happens to me.  Mind thinks "weight", says "weight", and the fingers type "wait". 

It happens I guess.
Even 93JC made a grammar mistake once.

[LonghornTX]

Relatively. 

Whatever, man.  If you guys are happy with all cars getting too heavy, then that's fine.  If you think 3400 pounds is an acceptable weight for a compact car, then I don't know what to do with you.



That really is true, then.

A compact car with 300hp and 6-piston brakes among other standard items.  I guess I just think logically, instead of in some idealistic manner that is completely removed from the idea of market economies or the slow commercialization of large-scale weight saving technologies like CFP, to mention a few. 

Cars are getting heavier for a multitude of reasons, but my original point stands- The 135i is no heavier than most of its common contemporaries.  Thus, if you want to bitch about the 135i than you better bitch about almost every car on the market being too heavy as well. 

Not every car is a Lotus.  Your Boxster is only ~400 lbs less and it is a dedicated two-seat sports car with a starting price almost 20k more.  I would hardly consider that acceptable for a two seat dedicated sports car of that price range, judging by your seemingly idealistic standards.  Maybe I should consider you a sucker by your own standards for purchasing that Porsche? 

[LonghornTX]

And I thought the 1er would come in at about 2900-3k lbs...
3300 lbs sucks bigtime. Isn't the Audi A4 even lighter?

Not according to Audi.  The V6 models (and above) are not even close.

[r0tor]

Supposedly.

i'm by no means a BMW troll, but when C&D (and everyone else that cares) puts the 335i on the scales its a good 200lbs lighter then then official BMW unladen weight - i think that means something

[SJ_GTI]

i'm by no means a BMW troll, but when C&D (and everyone else that cares) puts the 335i on the scales its a good 200lbs lighter then then official BMW unladen weight - i think that means something

Good point. I have leaned more toward Audi recently, but BMW is definitely better at keeping weight down, even if their published numbers don't reflect it. I can't find the article, but I do remember reading the article where the 335i was significantly lighter than its published weight. Do you have a link to the article by any chance? I searched on C&D but their website is not set up very well at all.

[r0tor]

download the "Players" chart... http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13173/the-lightning-lap-2007.html

the 335i was weighed by C&D at 3366lbs 

[Whats Up DOHC]

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/11733/2007-bmw-335i-coupe-specs-page4.html

http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2007/bmw/3_series/specifications.html

Weight varies from 3340-3570# for the 335i.

3350# for the 335i is phenomenal, as would be 3100# for the 135i.

On one hand, on paper they are both excellent cars that definitely perform better than their weight would suggest.

However, like others have said, I don't care what you do, there is just no substitute for taking weight off a car. A difference as small as 3% can be felt in every form of acceleration...

I think we will have to see the 1 in person to really make an assessment of how 'weight efficient' it is. Right now though I see it as a 3 series with less room for less money, which is not necessarily a horrible thing.

[TBR]

You can't feel 100 lbs, or at least I can't.