The FWD Superduty

[Tave]

IIRC, it is also unlawful to carry a load that extends more than 6" beyond the driver's side and 18" beyond the passenger side of the vehicle.

I wish I still had this picture on my phone: I was on the 101 in pheonix helping a friend move early one morning and we saw a man in a 70's sedan driving around with a foot-wide wooden plank sticking at least 6 feet out his driver's-side rear window. He was in the far right lane of the freeway, and he was occupying the entire lane next to him. R_E_D_I_C_U_L_O_U_S!

[etypeJohn]

You're saying that anything loaded behind the rear wheels is loading the truck wrong because it takes weight off the front wheels.

Can you find where I said that?

[SVT666]

Can you find where I said that?

It's what you are indirectly saying.

[etypeJohn]

The heaviest thing I ever seen loaded into the back of a standard half ton was a full pallet of cement. It was on the bump stops, and the front of the truck was sitting so high we didn't think the owner would be able to steer it, but he insisted on taking it that way, and from what I heard, was successfull in getting the load home.

When I was fresh out of high school I worked for a trucking company, first as an order writer in the repair shop then as a dispatcher.

We had tanker trailers too damaged to be repaired way out in the yard.  One day the boss got the bright idea of cutting them up and selling them for scrap.  It would earn money and clear out some parking space. 

By the time we hired a guy with a sniffer to make sure the truck wouldn't blow up when we started cutting it up, paid for the O2 and acetylene, and the time of the mechanics I doubt that we came close to breaking even. 

Add to the loses the pickup truck I used to carry the scrap to the salvage yard. A 68 Chevy half ton, about 1 year old at the time.  One load weighed over 4300 pounds.  We damn near destroyed the truck hauling that cut up tanker.  But hey, the boss was happy.

[etypeJohn]

It's what you are indirectly saying.

No, its not what i'm saying directly or indirectly at all.  I am saying that if you load a truck, at or near the load limit with the CG of the load significantly aft of the axle you are loading the truck improperly.

Just like too much tongue weight on a trailer.  Sure you can tow it, but it isn't the proper way to do it.

[SVT666]

No, its not what i'm saying directly or indirectly at all.  I am saying that if you load a truck, at or near the load limit with the CG of the load significantly aft of the axle you are loading the truck improperly.

Just like too much tongue weight on a trailer.  Sure you can tow it, but it isn't the proper way to do it.

I've loaded trucks with the CG right over the rear axle and even in front of it and it still pulls the front end up.  It's the nature of having the load bed over the rear axle.

[etypeJohn]

I've loaded trucks with the CG right over the rear axle and even in front of it and it still pulls the front end up.  It's the nature of having the load bed over the rear axle.

OK, but probably not dangerously so.  Now imagine the load CG practically at the tailgate hinge; its even worse.  Sure you can do it and people do all the time but its not the right way to haul a load.

[SVT666]

OK, but probably not dangerously so.  Now imagine the load CG practically at the tailgate hinge; its even worse.  Sure you can do it and people do all the time but its not the right way to haul a load.

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that's where they put the majority of the weight.  I certainly didn't, and I never have loaded a truck in that manner, but that doesn't stop the weight being pulled off the front tires.

[Tave]

I've loaded trucks with the CG right over the rear axle and even in front of it and it still pulls the front end up.  It's the nature of having the load bed over the rear axle.

Of course, it's not like a pickup handles perfectly under no load.

[SVT666]

I took this picture of my truck.  The load is placed, if anywhere, in front of the rear axle and the wheel well gap in the front is substantially larger then it is without a load.  Now, imagine if this truck was FWD.

[etypeJohn]

I took this picture of my truck.  The load is placed, if anywhere, in front of the rear axle and the wheel well gap in the front is substantially larger then it is without a load.  Now, imagine if this truck was FWD.

Looks very familiar.

I'm not arguing a front wheel drive truck is better or equal to a rear wheel drive.  All I said was it would probably work if you moved the rear axel as far back as you could -  to the very rear of the bed.

[Tave]

I took this picture of my truck.  The load is placed, if anywhere, in front of the rear axle and the wheel well gap in the front is substantially larger then it is without a load.  Now, imagine if this truck was FWD.

Hmm. seems like it wouldn't be too different from driving a heavy, RWD truck under no load, excepting steering.

In any event, that's not the intended application for the FWD truck. I don't think anyone is suggesting FWD as a pure substitute for normal trucks. All anyone is saying is they have their purpose.

[etypeJohn]

I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that's where they put the majority of the weight.  I certainly didn't, and I never have loaded a truck in that manner, but that doesn't stop the weight being pulled off the front tires.

No, I was referring to Ron who said he hauled 14" 2X10s.  That would have put the laod CG about 1 foot in front of the tailgate, assuming an 8' bed.

[SVT666]

Hmm. seems like it wouldn't be too different from driving a heavy, RWD truck under no load, excepting steering.

Actually it isn't.  Despite the rear end of a truck being lighter then the front end of the truck, the rear end is still heavy.  The day I hauled that load home, the truck was hesitant to turn until I had turned the wheel a great deal further then under normal conditions.

In any event, that's not the intended application for the FWD truck. I don't think anyone is suggesting FWD as a pure substitute for normal trucks. All anyone is saying is they have their purpose.

FWD pickups do not have a purpose which is why no manufacturer builds them.

[Ron From Regina]

No, I was referring to Ron who said he hauled 14" 2X10s.  That would have put the laod CG about 1 foot in front of the tailgate, assuming an 8' bed.

Right, and I was citing an extreme example of why FWD has no practical application in pickup trucks. I wasn't arguing on how to properly load a truck, or would I advocate hauling loads like that. I am simply pointing out that it happens, and from my experience at the lumber yard, is fairly common.

However, Hemi has provided a more practical example of truck use. Even with the load inside the rear axel, his truck still shows signifigant lift on the front tires, which is why FWD is a poor candidate for regular use pickups, which is what the original argument was all about.

[garloosh]

I had the opportunity to attend this year's SEMA show with my boss, and had come across this truck. And I, along with a lot of you on here was in complete disbelief as to the actual concept of the vehicle.  After speaking with someone there at the ford booth, they had shed some light on some of the specifics, and what I wasnt able to learn there, I found on dalas smith corp's website (www.dallassmithcorp.com).  It turns out that the suspension is an all wheel air-ride independent suspension, that can lower/raise itself.  And its GVWR is something like 19,500 (which I believe my f450 is 18,000).  The only downfall I remember hearing, is that it can only tow light to medium duty trailers/boats.  But other than that, the vehicle was definitely Ford's biggest hit...may have even won best of show...and with the tail gate able to drop like that, i can see why!

[Tave]

Actually it isn't.  Despite the rear end of a truck being lighter then the front end of the truck, the rear end is still heavy.  The day I hauled that load home, the truck was hesitant to turn until I had turned the wheel a great deal further then under normal conditions.

My point was a RWD breaks loose in the rear and a FWD pickup breaks loose in the front. You can pick your poison, but it's not like either one is perfect.

But I think you're missing the point. This abstract, FWD truck we're talking about probably isn't meant for the kind of duty your picture captured.

FWD pickups do not have a purpose which is why no manufacturer builds them.

Huh? We've seen several commercial applications of the technology, as well as this concept. It might a niche purpose, but it exists.

[Soup DeVille]

So 206 has been arguing that FWD is perfectly fine and yet he didn't even know the definition of the acronym.

Soup, I have lived with and owned trucks my entire life carrying heavy loads up to 5000 lbs in the box of several different makes and manufacturers and when your loads are getting that heavy there is no way to load a pickup without taking weight off the front wheels.  In case you haven't noticed the box sits over the REAR tires and when you load several thousand pounds of weight over those wheels the front of your truck actually starts to lift off the front tires.  This concept truck is an F-450 which is capable of hauling 6000 lbs in the box and FWD would completely suck with 6000 lbs in the box and I don't care how you load it.  It also has a 24,500 lbs tow rating.  I would like to see a FWD pickup tow that.

This is not a concept truck. This seems to be causing you much confusion. It is a current, produced and used specialty truck designed to solve a particular problem. Why is that so hard to understand?

Oh, and on your loading example: look at a pick up again. A pickup with an 8-foot bed will generally have the axle right in the middle: as long as the weight of your load is centered or in front of center, you will be adding weight to the front end.

My father owned, and still owns a rigging company. I grew up working in his shop. I worked as a heavy rigger for a number of years. I drove steel haulers for a couple of years as well. I know trucks.

Oh, and 206 was confused because he kept seeing the letter "FWD" on rear wheel drive trucks, and didn't know about the existence of a relatively obscure specialty truck manufacturer named the "Four Wheel Drive Auto company."

[Soup DeVille]

Yeah, and he's been stealing all the pics and things you guys have posted and putting them on another forum.

There's really no expectation of privacy or intellectual property rights when posting ideas under a pseudonym on an open forum.

[2o6]

Ah, so 2o6, been stealing a lot of stuff from here for MCAD?

Duh. Mostly to fight Sean.

[2o6]

2o6 didn't know what FWD is?

What?


For the Semi, I wasn't sure if they meant Front-wheel-drive, or Foreward-Cab.

[Soup DeVille]

What?


For the Semi, I wasn't sure if they meant Front-wheel-drive, or Foreward-Cab.

There are many common terms in trucking that most people here wouldn't understand right away either. (Can anyone tell me what a camelback is?)

[2o6]

FWD pickups do not have a purpose which is why no manufacturer builds them.

Uhh, Dallas Smith Corp? I'm not saying for it to replace regular pickups, but that FWD pickups DO have a purpose.

[Raghavan]

There are many common terms in trucking that most people here wouldn't understand right away either. (Can anyone tell me what a camelback is?)

A backpack with a hose on it so you can drink water easily from a bladder stored in the backpack.

[Catman]

I had the opportunity to attend this year's SEMA show with my boss, and had come across this truck. And I, along with a lot of you on here was in complete disbelief as to the actual concept of the vehicle.  After speaking with someone there at the ford booth, they had shed some light on some of the specifics, and what I wasnt able to learn there, I found on dalas smith corp's website (www.dallassmithcorp.com).  It turns out that the suspension is an all wheel air-ride independent suspension, that can lower/raise itself.  And its GVWR is something like 19,500 (which I believe my f450 is 18,000).  The only downfall I remember hearing, is that it can only tow light to medium duty trailers/boats.  But other than that, the vehicle was definitely Ford's biggest hit...may have even won best of show...and with the tail gate able to drop like that, i can see why!

Welcome to the forum.

[SVT666]

Oh, and on your loading example: look at a pick up again. A pickup with an 8-foot bed will generally have the axle right in the middle: as long as the weight of your load is centered or in front of center, you will be adding weight to the front end.

Actually I think it's you that needs to look at a pickup again.  The only long box pickup I have ever seen with the axle in the middle of the bed is the old Toyota T100.

[Soup DeVille]

Those all look pretty close to the middle to me: if anything some of them are slightly further to the rear, which would only bolster my case.

[Nebtek2002]

As the former owner of a Dodge Rampage, I never got stuck in snow in that thing despite low ground clearance.

As to the unsuitabilty of "wrong wheel drive" under load, I didn't have any handling problems helping people move, transporting balled/burlapped trees, etc.

My only real problem with the Rampage was that the box floor was galvanized and the cab floor wasn't. If I could have controlled the cab-floor rust, I'd still have a vehicle that was lots better on snow and ice than my Ranger.

Further, I've owned 3 Chrysler-built minivans, a 1978 captive-import-version Ford Fiesta, The Rampage, several FWD GM sedans, my presentFWD Aztek; and had only one CV joint failure ( the Fiesta) among them.

You people who think these joints are so fragile must drive like total idiots.