Tundra tailgate issues

[sandertheshark]

Want me not to be an "apologist"?

Show me finite element analysis of the tailgate under load. Show me a dissected tailgate detailing construction and design. Heck, even show me a caliper reading of sheet metal thickness!

Just don't show me the ever tiresome sin du jour of teh Internets that is anecdote as data.

How about we just show you the tailgate of a brand new truck that looks worse than my uncle's 21-year-old F-250?

[Raghavan]

Don't worry guys, it's a Toyota, it was probably meant to bend like that.

[TheIntrepid]

Don't worry guys, it's a Toyota, it was probably meant to bend like that.

Tru dat yo, Toyota can't mess up. It has the heritage of Mercedes.

[GoCougs]

How about we just show you the tailgate of a brand new truck that looks worse than my uncle's 21-year-old F-250?

Like I said: anecdotes as data...

[VetteZ06]

Like I said: anecdotes as data...

I agree with Cougs. I don't think there's a problem.

[FordSVT]

Want me not to be an "apologist"?

Show me finite element analysis of the tailgate under load. Show me a dissected tailgate detailing construction and design. Heck, even show me a caliper reading of sheet metal thickness!

Just don't show me the ever tiresome sin du jour of teh Internets that is anecdote as data.

Why not? You already base your opinion on nothing but anecdotal evidence.

If you stepped on the tailgate of a Tundra and it snapped in half and you fell to the ground and broke your ankle, you'd say you didn't have any evidence the problem was widespread and you'd recommend one to your best friend.

It's OK to say you can't admit anything bad about the Tundra because you've been singing it's praises for so long. Really.

[GoCougs]

Why not? You already base your opinion on nothing but anecdotal evidence.

No, no, no. At I simply stated that tailgate damage is commonplace - and have even personally caused a good measure of it.

If you stepped on the tailgate of a Tundra and it snapped in half and you fell to the ground and broke your ankle, you'd say you didn't have any evidence the problem was widespread and you'd recommend one to your best friend.

This really doesn't jive - this is an impossible scenario.

It's OK to say you can't admit anything bad about the Tundra because you've been singing it's praises for so long. Really.

Few, including yours truly, would go so far as to state that a complicated all-new product from an all-new factory would be perfect. If you're so hell-bent to convert me, show me! Don't show me 20 bad camshafts, or a thread of damaged tailgate stories, and expect bandwagon Toyota damnation.

[sandertheshark]

Like I said: anecdotes as data...

That's called real-world user data sampling.

[FordSVT]

Two more articles.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/22/toyota-tundra-hit-with-two-more-quality-issues/

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/toyota-responds-to-tailgate-issue/2

Even Toyota seems to believe there's the possibility of an issue.

And GoCougs, no one's asking you to jump on any band-wagon. You're free to think the Toyota is a good truck, but your tireless "support Tundra at all costs" mantra and your being the first to jump in to discredit or disprove or gloss-over any and all criticism of the truck is rather transparent. It's a good truck, not a perfect truck, but you've been salivating over the damn thing since you laid your eyes on the first spec sheet and can't even admit that.

You don't do this with any other vehicle that I can recall, I'm not certain why you take the Tundra so personally. You won't be happy until Toyota comes out and says "yes there is a problem and this is the engineering reason behind it and this is the engineering solution". They never will, so therefore you'll never believe there's a problem, it will always be a simple statistical anomaly to you.

[GoCougs]

Two more articles.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/22/toyota-tundra-hit-with-two-more-quality-issues/

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/toyota-responds-to-tailgate-issue/2

Even Toyota seems to believe there's the possibility of an issue.

And GoCougs, no one's asking you to jump on any band-wagon. You're free to think the Toyota is a good truck, but your tireless "support Tundra at all costs" mantra and your being the first to jump in to discredit or disprove or gloss-over any and all criticism of the truck is rather transparent. It's a good truck, not a perfect truck, but you've been salivating over the damn thing since you laid your eyes on the first spec sheet and can't even admit that.

You don't do this with any other vehicle that I can recall, I'm not certain why you take the Tundra so personally. You won't be happy until Toyota comes out and says "yes there is a problem and this is the engineering reason behind it and this is the engineering solution". They never will, so therefore you'll never believe there's a problem, it will always be a simple statistical anomaly to you.

Let me put it to you in Socratic terms: had the '07 Tundra been simply a continuation of the first generation (i.e., not all-new), think we'd see these "look what is wrong with the new Tundra" threads and corresponding replies of similar ilk?

[JYODER240]

Let me put it to you in Socratic terms: had the '07 Tundra been simply a continuation of the first generation (i.e., not all-new), think we'd see these "look what is wrong with the new Tundra" threads and corresponding replies of similar ilk?

What does that have to do with the taligate issue?

[GoCougs]

What does that have to do with the taligate issue?

Taligate? As in, tally me banana? J/k.

But in answer to your question: About as much as virtually all of FordSVT's post save for the two links.

At least he took the effort to find something more than a thread on another forum; case in point Toyota's response that they're investigating it.

Maybe FordSVT should be in charge.

[VetteZ06]

No, no, no. At I simply stated that tailgate damage is commonplace - and have even personally caused a good measure of it.

So have the Silverado, Sierra, F-150, Ram, and Titan suffered similar issues?

[etypeJohn]

So have the Silverado, Sierra, F-150, Ram, and Titan suffered similar issues?

Apparently not from the kind of loads that are causing this damage.  The damage to the white truck in the picture was caused by a golf cart.  Golf carts aren't that heavy.  Somewhere in that 32 page long thread people mentioned they could feel the tailgate flex just by standing on it.

Toyota apparently made the tailgate as light as possible so their non-slamming feature could work properly.  It would appear hat they might have shaved a few too many pounds from the tailgate.
 
Its also been noted that most of the sheetmetal on this truck is pretty thin. To save weight? Probably. 

I've loaded some pretty heavy items, like cast iron and concrete pipe, on both Ford and Chevy tailgates and never experienced the kind of damage shown in the photos.  It looks to me like Toyota has just removed too much metal in an effort to lighten the vehicle.  

[FordSVT]

Taligate? As in, tally me banana? J/k.

But in answer to your question: About as much as virtually all of FordSVT's post save for the two links.

At least I can admit my own biases and see the negative qualities in the vehicles I own or love. I've found that being objective is beneficial, you should try it sometime. 

[GoCougs]

At least I can admit my own biases and see the negative qualities in the vehicles I own or love. I've found that being objective is beneficial, you should try it sometime. 

So what's up? You're usually pretty mellow.

[Submariner]

Jesus, another pissing-match thread over the (no big surprise) Tundra?

This truck draws more controversy than anything I have ever seen.  And it always turns into the Toyota camp (Cougs) remaining stead-fast for Toyota, and the Toyota Blew it camp (everyone else) saying what an asshole he is.  Is it too hard to have somewhat of an intelligent discussion, perhaps with facts, and no name calling?  After all, these are internet forums.  No point in getting frazzled.   

[CALL_911]

Jesus, another pissing-match thread over the (no big surprise) Tundra?

This truck draws more controversy than anything I have ever seen.  And it always turns into the Toyota camp (Cougs) remaining stead-fast for Toyota, and the Toyota Blew it camp (everyone else) saying what an asshole he is.  Is it too hard to have somewhat of an intelligent discussion, perhaps with facts, and no name calling?  After all, these are internet forums.  No point in getting frazzled.   

n00b, Toyota is t3h pwnz0r, and everything else is a POS which won't last 1,000,000 miles. Get j00r facts straight.

[Soup DeVille]

Jesus, another pissing-match thread over the (no big surprise) Tundra?

This truck draws more controversy than anything I have ever seen.  And it always turns into the Toyota camp (Cougs) remaining stead-fast for Toyota, and the Toyota Blew it camp (everyone else) saying what an asshole he is.  Is it too hard to have somewhat of an intelligent discussion, perhaps with facts, and no name calling?  After all, these are internet forums.  No point in getting frazzled.  

I also think the Tuindra is a good truck.

If the tailgate is a little weak: so thefuck what? It's the easiest thing to replace on a truck anyways, and most eventually get beaten beyond repair in a few years regardless of how tuff they are.

[Minpin]

I also think the Tuindra is a good truck.

If the tailgate is a little weak: so thefuck what? It's the easiest thing to replace on a truck anyways, and most eventually get beaten beyond repair in a few years regardless of how tuff they are.

Tough.

[TBR]

Apparently not from the kind of loads that are causing this damage.  The damage to the white truck in the picture was caused by a golf cart.  Golf carts aren't that heavy.  Somewhere in that 32 page long thread people mentioned they could feel the tailgate flex just by standing on it.

Toyota apparently made the tailgate as light as possible so their non-slamming feature could work properly.  It would appear hat they might have shaved a few too many pounds from the tailgate.
 
Its also been noted that most of the sheetmetal on this truck is pretty thin. To save weight? Probably.

I've loaded some pretty heavy items, like cast iron and concrete pipe, on both Ford and Chevy tailgates and never experienced the kind of damage shown in the photos.  It looks to me like Toyota has just removed too much metal in an effort to lighten the vehicle.   

The Titan has a no slam tailgate as well.

And, my dad has owned solely trucks for his entire driving career, he has never replaced a tail gate (and, yes, they are used as trucks).

[VetteZ06]

If the tailgate is a little weak: so thefuck what?

I guess I figured Toyota would pay particular attention to something that gets used as often as the tailgate. Surely they knew it wasn't the strongest thing in the world before they released the truck to the public?

[GoCougs]

Jesus, another pissing-match thread over the (no big surprise) Tundra?

This truck draws more controversy than anything I have ever seen.  And it always turns into the Toyota camp (Cougs) remaining stead-fast for Toyota, and the Toyota Blew it camp (everyone else) saying what an asshole he is.  Is it too hard to have somewhat of an intelligent discussion, perhaps with facts, and no name calling?  After all, these are internet forums.  No point in getting frazzled.   

Actually, I have to give props to Carspin in that the frequency of such threads is far lower than most any other automotive BB.

I state it again, and repeat the sentiment for pertinent effect - had Toyota still been selling the first generation Tundra, you'd not see any of this.

A Japanese truck that simply out-trucks the domestics is a hot potato - especially one made by Big Bad Toyota.

[SVT666]

I also think the Tuindra is a good truck.

As do I.

If the tailgate is a little weak: so thefuck what?

Because a new one probably costs $1500 without paint.

[/quote]It's the easiest thing to replace on a truck anyways, and most eventually get beaten beyond repair in a few years regardless of how tuff they are.[/quote]
My parents had an '81 Ford F-250 that was used in their landscaping business and we put a new tailgate on it every 2 years.  The latching system and internal mechanism design was terrible.  Their '92 F-250 was also used in their landscaping company performing the same duties as the '81 and the tailgate was never replaced and worked as well on the day they sold it 3 months ago as it did the day they bought it.  Tailgates don't just fail...unless they are weak or poorly designed.

[SVT666]

Actually, I have to give props to Carspin in that the frequency of such threads is far lower than most any other automotive BB.

I state it again, and repeat the sentiment for pertinent effect - had Toyota still been selling the first generation Tundra, you'd not see any of this.

A Japanese truck that simply out-trucks the domestics is a hot potato - especially one made by Big Bad Toyota.

I guarantee you that if this happened to Dodge, Ford, or GM this would be front page news and car scribes would be predicting their demise because of it.

[GoCougs]

I guarantee you that if this happened to Dodge, Ford, or GM this would be front page news and car scribes would be predicting their demise because of it.

Because of one thread about tailgates?

[Submariner]

Actually, I have to give props to Carspin in that the frequency of such threads is far lower than most any other automotive BB.

I state it again, and repeat the sentiment for pertinent effect - had Toyota still been selling the first generation Tundra, you'd not see any of this.


Yes...but how does it "out-truck" the big three?  Certainly not because of it's overly done, grotesque styling. 

The tundra still lacks much of the equipment that is considered a plus in the truck segment, such as a diesel engine, dual rear tires, an HD option, etc.  The Tundra doesn't manage to "
out truck" the Segment leaders, because it offers nothing substantially different or innovative over them.  Toyota however did seem to execute the Tundra's design fairly well, and perhaps is being bashed unfairly for this issue.  Only time will tell us just how bad this tailgate fiasco really is.

[VetteZ06]

A Japanese truck that simply out-trucks the domestics is a hot potato - especially one made by Big Bad Toyota.

Well, as long as you don't use the tailgate. Does anybody use the tailgate anyway?

Notice that a lot of the owners in the linked thread have commented about exceedingly thin/flimsy sheetmetal as well. I guess "out-trucking" mostly involves lots of horsepower and other "big" numbers, but not necessarily sturdy construction or long-term durability. Toyota cut corners in the interior and now, as we're finding out, on the sheetmetal as well (not to mention the engine problems). Where else?

Because of one thread about tailgates?

Yes. This is probably the only existing discussion about the Tundra's tailgate problems. I doubt Toyota even knows about it.

[SVT666]

Yes...but how does it "out-truck" the big three?  Certainly not because of it's overly done, grotesque styling. 

The tundra still lacks much of the equipment that is considered a plus in the truck segment, such as a diesel engine, dual rear tires, an HD option, etc.  The Tundra doesn't manage to "
out truck" the Segment leaders, because it offers nothing substantially different or innovative over them.  Toyota however did seem to execute the Tundra's design fairly well, and perhaps is being bashed unfairly for this issue.  Only time will tell us just how bad this tailgate fiasco really is.

Even I have to admit that Toyota makes the best 1/2 ton pickup on the market right now.  The Tundra out-trucks the 1/2 tons, and if they made a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton I'm sure they would be close to the Big 3 in that category as well.  I don't know that they would be as good as the Big 3 in their first effort, but it would definitely be close.  In the Canadian Truck King Challenge this year, the Tundra swept the 1/2 Ton segment in all categories.  It's the only truck comparo that I know of where they put the trucks through every conceivable test that a pickup needs to do, from off-roading, to hauling a heavy load, to pulling a trailer with a Jeep on it, to interior storage and flexibility.  All their tests have the "real" truck user in mind...not the truck owner that refuses to carry a load in his truck because it might scratch.

[Submariner]

Even I have to admit that Toyota makes the best 1/2 ton pickup on the market right now.  The Tundra out-trucks the 1/2 tons, and if they made a 3/4 ton or a 1 ton I'm sure they would be close to the Big 3 in that category as well.  I don't know that they would be as good as the Big 3 in their first effort, but it would definitely be close.  In the Canadian Truck King Challenge this year, the Tundra swept the 1/2 Ton segment in all categories.  It's the only truck comparo that I know of where they put the trucks through every conceivable test that a pickup needs to do, from off-roading, to hauling a heavy load, to pulling a trailer with a Jeep on it, to interior storage and flexibility.  All their tests have the "real" truck user in mind...not the truck owner that refuses to carry a load in his truck because it might scratch.

When I said "out truck" I meant that it offers no innovative features over the rest.  The Tundra does, however, do what the other trucks to, just better.