Manual vs Dual Clutch vs Sequential Manual vs Automatic

[Soup DeVille]

I don't what we're talking aboot, but I can shift any traditional manual in less than 1/10th of a second. 

Go for it hotshot.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Go for it hotshot.

Ok, now which button do I press to go forward? 

[Soup DeVille]

Ok, now which button do I press to go forward? 

All of them. Except the second and the third shifters can never be both in gear at the same time.

[Raza]

All of them. Except the second and the third shifters can never be both in gear at the same time.

That's what you think.  In truth, it puts the flux capacitor into overdrive and allows you jump time at 44mph instead of 88.  It used to be 64.2mph, but they were able to get it down. 

[ChrisV]

I don't what we're talking aboot, but I can shift any traditional manual in less than 1/10th of a second. 

I'd have let you try the Fiat while I had it to test that claim...

And to the guys saying that shifting adds a significant amount of fun to your commute, I daresay that 90% of the time you aren't even noticing you're shifting. Or are you still so new at it that you are saying, "Oh look, I shifted. Oh, look at that, I did it AGAIN!" Every day?

I got over that stage about 27 years ago. Maybe I'm just not as simple minded and easily amused... 

And if you tell me that every shift, up or down in traffic is an exercise in finding the perfect heel and toe shift, you're deluding yourself and lying to me. I did some checking on my commute before for just this argument, shifting took up approx. 30 seconds out of a 20 minute commute. (on side streets. I don't commute on an interstate or major artery anymore) It was impossible for it to measurably add to the "fun" of the commute, and most shifts were done out of necessity, not out of any sort of extracting maximum performance. I've commuted in manual cars for much of my life. I really don't see where the added "fun" is. 

Now, in sporty driving on backroads in a nice sports car, yeah, there is added fun. Though I've had much fun in seriously twisty backroads in my BMW, as it's a challenge to make a large car dance well, and there is added fun in making it do what I want (which also proves I have great control over the car even without a third pedal).

That being said, my next new car, if it's what I hope it will be, will have a traditional manual or a DSG type box.

[heelntoe]

erm.....manual.

there are a few cars that i would like to have with an automatic, but for the most part, i still prefer a manual.

this might change if and when i drive a car with an sequential manual or a dual clutch setup.

More gears= more power? Cougs you know better than that!

Anyways, each shift comes with a time penalty. At a certain point, the law of diminishing returns comes into serious effect.

Besides, most domestic six speeds are really geared more like five speeds: plus a tall overdrive gear that you'd never use under normal acceleration.

think 50cc bike with 24 gears.

imagine coming to a spead bump in 20th gear and having to downshift into 1st or 2nd.

[etypejohn]

The Mazda 3 went in the shop last Friday for a check engine light issue.  Turns out the purge valve needed replacing.  We got a Tribute, V6 automatic, for a loaner for the weekend.

I wasn't impressed.  The automatic often seemed to be in the wrong gear and the first fraction of the throttle movement fed gobs of power to the front wheels.  Gas mileage also sucked.  I drove it enough to get used to the thing and still didn't like it.  I much preferred the drive train in my 2001 Escape which was a 5 speed.

[SVT666]

I got over that stage about 27 years ago. Maybe I'm just not as simple minded and easily amused... 

Maybe you're just getting old.

I enjoy driving a manual much more then an auto even in my daily commute.  I don't have to use the brakes as much, I can hold a gear when I want to, etc.  It's not that it's significantly more fun on my commute, I just like it more.

[Tave]

I'd have let you try the Fiat while I had it to test that claim...

I see your point, but who's to say it'd be quicker with an auto, especially one from that era? Maybe he can't shift it lightning fast, but then chances are the Fiat automatic (assuming there was such a thing) couldn't either.

My 4runner's shifting could be cumbersome (the clutch was long and stiff, the throws were long, and it resisted quick movements; after all, it is a truck), but I don't think the automatic option would have been noticebly more pleasant.


I agree though, that most of the time you don't even realize you're doing it, and I would want certain cars of mine to have automatics. I couldn't think of driving my friend's '69 Camaro with anything else, though in all fairness I've never driven the 4-speed.

[MX793]

I did some checking on my commute before for just this argument, shifting took up approx. 30 seconds out of a 20 minute commute. (on side streets. I don't commute on an interstate or major artery anymore) It was impossible for it to measurably add to the "fun" of the commute, and most shifts were done out of necessity, not out of any sort of extracting maximum performance. I've commuted in manual cars for much of my life. I really don't see where the added "fun" is. 

I'd guess-timate that in my hour long commute, 90% of the time I only use the steering wheel for minor course corrections to keep the car in the lane.  I don't even notice I'm using it.  And even when I do actually have to negotiate a bend in the road, it's not like I'm saying "woah, look at how well I kept it between the lines around that one".  I use the brakes even less.  Why not automate those tasks too?

[MrH]

I have to agree with Chris on some points.  I think it greatly depends on the car.  No car is trash just because it's a certain type of transmission.  By the way some of you talk, I'd think a F430 with a sequential has nothing on a manual transmission Ford Focus.

And while I normally prefer standard manual transmissions, it doesn't make or break a car.  And while it may only provide only 30 seconds of joy a trip according to ChrisV, you could say it's much more than that.  It's about always being in the gear I want, and being able to modulate the clutch to get the exact desired input to the wheels.

[Raza]

I have to agree with Chris on some points.  I think it greatly depends on the car.  No car is trash just because it's a certain type of transmission.  By the way some of you talk, I'd think a F430 with a sequential has nothing on a manual transmission Ford Focus.

And while I normally prefer standard manual transmissions, it doesn't make or break a car.  And while it may only provide only 30 seconds of joy a trip according to ChrisV, you could say it's much more than that.  It's about always being in the gear I want, and being able to modulate the clutch to get the exact desired input to the wheels.

I still wouldn't buy a 430 with a sequential manual.

[MrH]

I still wouldn't buy a 430 with a sequential manual.

I don't know if I would.  Regardless, I won't be in that position any time soon, and I certainly wouldn't turn my nose at one like some of the people on here would.

[Raza]

I don't know if I would.  Regardless, I won't be in that position any time soon, and I certainly wouldn't turn my nose at one like some of the people on here would.

I don't think I'd buy a car with an F1 sequential at all.  A DSG is a fine replacement for an automatic, but the sequential isn't as good as a manual fun, engagement-wise, and can't replace an automatic as well as a DSG can.

[AltinD]

BTW, how put the pic of a TypeR C(rapy)ivic as a representation for the DSG????

[Raza]

BTW, how put the pic of a TypeR C(rapy)ivic as a representation for the DSG????

Even though it's VWAG innovation, the OP decided to use the Nissan GT-R's steering wheel as a DSG rep.

[MX793]

BTW, how put the pic of a TypeR C(rapy)ivic as a representation for the DSG????

That's a Nissan GT-R, not a Civic Type R.

[heelntoe]

Even though it's VWAG innovation, the OP decided to use the Nissan GT-R's steering wheel as a DSG rep.

well, it's not really a VWAG innovation, borg warner initially licensed it to VWAG and i guess other companies will have access to it when that license expires.

[heelntoe]

well, i finally voted manual.
i wanted to hold off until i drove a DSG, but that got pushed well into February.