BMW M6

[Raghavan]

I say we (you) stop arguing about it.

and i say you go away if you aren't helping us.  

[Raza]

I say we (you) stop arguing about it.

You mean "agree to disagree"?

[giant_mtb]

I say we (you) stop arguing about it.

 

[TBR]

By delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.

You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.

The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.

No, that's not the point of a definition.  A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.

So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier?  No, that doesn't make sense either.  I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.

Don't tell me my definition is wrong (light weight 2 door focused on sport which both the 911 and Miata match) and I won't tell you your definition is wrong. It is that simple.

[giant_mtb]

I say we (you) stop arguing about it.

:angry:  

[Raza]

By delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.

You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.

The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.

No, that's not the point of a definition.  A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.

So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier?  No, that doesn't make sense either.  I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.

Don't tell me my definition is wrong (light weight 2 door focused on sport which both the 911 and Miata match) and I won't tell you your definition is wrong. It is that simple.

It's a good rule of thumb.  But in my eyes, it will never be a sports car without an open top.  

By your definition, is the Veyron a sports car?  The 911?  If they are by you, then you go on with that.  The M3 is not a sports car, the M5 isn't, the E55 is not, the C55 is not, the CLK55 is not.  They're all GTs or sport sedans.  It doesn't make them any less of a car, it just makes them what they are.  You're all acting as if I'm using dirty words when I'm obviously not.

[TBR]

By delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.

You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.

The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.

No, that's not the point of a definition.  A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.

So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier?  No, that doesn't make sense either.  I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.

Don't tell me my definition is wrong (light weight 2 door focused on sport which both the 911 and Miata match) and I won't tell you your definition is wrong. It is that simple.

It's a good rule of thumb.  But in my eyes, it will never be a sports car without an open top.  

By your definition, is the Veyron a sports car?  The 911?  If they are by you, then you go on with that.  The M3 is not a sports car, the M5 isn't, the E55 is not, the C55 is not, the CLK55 is not.  They're all GTs or sport sedans.  It doesn't make them any less of a car, it just makes them what they are.  You're all acting as if I'm using dirty words when I'm obviously not.

You're acting as if your opinion is concrete fact when it isn't. Clearly there is a lot of personal interpretation involved in deciding what the definition of "sports car" is.

Also, I would classify the M3, M5, E55, C55, Veyron and CLK55 as GTs, the 911 being the lone exception.

[giant_mtb]

I say we (you) stop arguing about it.

You mean "agree to disagree"?

Yeah pretty much. lol

[Raghavan]

why does it have to be a convertible to be a sports car? they're heavier, have a worse Cd, and not as fast or nimble as their closed top counterparts.

[Raza]

We all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact.  That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion.  We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.  

[TBR]

We all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact.  That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion.  We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.

I am not asking you to believe that your opinion is untrue, I am asking you to respect my opinion and the opinions of others. It really shouldn't be that difficult considering how open minded you think you are.  

[Raza]

why does it have to be a convertible to be a sports car? they're heavier, have a worse Cd, and not as fast or nimble as their closed top counterparts.

It's not necessarily a convertible.  It's an open top.

And a Corvette convertible is lighter than a Corvette coupe.  They're both sports cars, however, since the coupe is a targa and an open top car.  So, not all convertibles are heavier than coupe counterparts.  You have a good point about coefficient of drag, but the new Mustang probably has a higher cD than the old Mustang, and which is the better car?  By the way, the Mustang is a GT as well, not a sports car.  

[Raza]

We all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact.  That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion.  We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.

I am not asking you to believe that your opinion is untrue, I am asking you to respect my opinion and the opinions of others. It really shouldn't be that difficult considering how open minded you think you are.

When did I say I was open minded?  I am in several respects, true, but some things I hold to be facts.  And when the best automotive source I've ever come by tells me that a sports car is a two seat, two door, rwd, open top car, I listen up.  I agree that the definitions can, at times, be seemingly foolishly exclusive (though we all call chihuahuas dogs for some reason ) but it is the way it is.  

However, 2 seats is something I'll NEVER budge on.  If it's got two extra seats, it's not a sports car.  That's like saying a sedan is just a coupe with two extra doors.

[ifcar]

We all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact.  That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion.  We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.

I am not asking you to believe that your opinion is untrue, I am asking you to respect my opinion and the opinions of others. It really shouldn't be that difficult considering how open minded you think you are.

Nicely put.  

[TBR]

Cars with useable rear seats are definitely GTs, but cars with useless rear seats (such as the 911) are sports cars imho, unless something else such as weight prevents them from being one.  

[MrH]

I got to agree with Raza.  You guys are acting as if being a GT and not a sports car is some sort of insult.  By your definition TBR, sports cars are merely the upper echelon of performance cars.  The term "sportier" is thrown around to mean the same as performance.  Your definition leaves a lot in the air, as you are the one who decides which cars are light enough, and which ones are "sporty" enough.

Here are some questions for you.  How about the tiburon from the video that made its rounds to every car forum in the galaxy?  I'm sure you've seen it.  The one with two engines that runs ridiculously low quarter mile times (I forgot how much exactly).  Do you consider that a sports car?

How about the Dodge Ram that almost one the 2005 Cannonball One Lap of America that was in C&D this month?  Is that a sports car?

The clear cut and dry definition that has been around for quite some time has been just what Raza said.  It's not a kick to the nuts of a cars pride for being a GT instead of a sports car.  It doesn't make a difference whether a GT out performs a sports car.  Sports cars do not have to be the best performing things on the road.  It's about expierence, not performance.

[ifcar]

That's fine, except that the definition that Raza uses has been replaced/updated everywhere but his source.

[TBR]

I got to agree with Raza.  You guys are acting as if being a GT and not a sports car is some sort of insult.  By your definition TBR, sports cars are merely the upper echelon of performance cars.  The term "sportier" is thrown around to mean the same as performance.  Your definition leaves a lot in the air, as you are the one who decides which cars are light enough, and which ones are "sporty" enough.

Here are some questions for you.  How about the tiburon from the video that made its rounds to every car forum in the galaxy?  I'm sure you've seen it.  The one with two engines that runs ridiculously low quarter mile times (I forgot how much exactly).  Do you consider that a sports car?

How about the Dodge Ram that almost one the 2005 Cannonball One Lap of America that was in C&D this month?  Is that a sports car?

The clear cut and dry definition that has been around for quite some time has been just what Raza said.  It's not a kick to the nuts of a cars pride for being a GT instead of a sports car.  It doesn't make a difference whether a GT out performs a sports car.  Sports cars do not have to be the best performing things on the road.  It's about expierence, not performance.

Once again, I disagree. The elements that make a car a sports car should be ones that actually make it sportier, not ones that make the experience different. And, 3500 lbs is my limit for a sports car.

As far as the Ram goes, it certainly was a sports car, it was essentially a Ram body on a Viper chassis if I am remembering correctly. I have never seen the Tiburon you talk of, but my guess is that it weighs over 3500 lbs, plus it almost certainly has AWD.  

[R33 GT-R]

blah, blah, blah...

[TBR]

So, you guys are telling me that the car in my sig is a GT because it has a roof? Well, that is a direct conflict with the definition of GT:
"Main Entry:     gran turismo
Part of Speech:     noun
Definition:     a touring car
Etymology:     Italian `great touring'
Usage:     abbreviated [GT]"

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gran%20turismo

I don't believe the Elise Exige is a touring car.

Edit- wrong address, I don't know where that one came from.

[R33 GT-R]

Hmmmm...  

[Run Away]

Reffer to my Oxford Dictionary quote:
"a low built fast car"

[Raghavan]

I got to agree with Raza.  You guys are acting as if being a GT and not a sports car is some sort of insult.  By your definition TBR, sports cars are merely the upper echelon of performance cars.  The term "sportier" is thrown around to mean the same as performance.  Your definition leaves a lot in the air, as you are the one who decides which cars are light enough, and which ones are "sporty" enough.

Here are some questions for you.  How about the tiburon from the video that made its rounds to every car forum in the galaxy?  I'm sure you've seen it.  The one with two engines that runs ridiculously low quarter mile times (I forgot how much exactly).  Do you consider that a sports car?

How about the Dodge Ram that almost one the 2005 Cannonball One Lap of America that was in C&D this month?  Is that a sports car?

The clear cut and dry definition that has been around for quite some time has been just what Raza said.  It's not a kick to the nuts of a cars pride for being a GT instead of a sports car.  It doesn't make a difference whether a GT out performs a sports car.  Sports cars do not have to be the best performing things on the road.  It's about expierence, not performance.

How does TBR's definition leave a lot in the air? He said the car has to have two doors, RWD,  be under a certain wieght limit, blah blah blah.  i don't think that's leaving a lot in the air.

As for the Tib, i consider that to be a sports car. Just because it's AWD, doesn't limit it from being a sports car, also like how a roof does limit a car from being a sports car.

Also, the clear cut and dry definition is now being changed. Back then, convertibles were lighter than their coupe counterparts, so they were considered to be sports car. that way of thinking is old. Now, because of structural modifications, motors, etc, most convertibles are heavier than coupes, so i'd think coupes are more sporty. And about you're last sentence, i would think one could have about as much fun (or even more) in a coupe than a convertible. And i don't think theres a clear cut and dry definition anymore. Cars are changing. We're not in the old days anymore. There are more and more forms of sports cars, and maybe you should start accepting that.

[Raza]

If that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.  

[BMWDave]

If that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.

here we go again  

[ifcar]

The Tiburon isn't AWD, where'd that come from? It's an Elantra coupe with different styling.  

[Raghavan]

If that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.

why, cos it has AWD and a roof?  

[Run Away]

The Tib they are talking about is a twin engine Tib with 300hp turbo engine on each ends and AWD.
It runs very low 11 second 1.4 mile times and makes the best burnouts I've ever seen.

[Raza]

If that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.

why, cos it has AWD and a roof?

Yes, exactly.  My car is a sedan, and it's a sedan only because it's a coupe with two extra doors.  

 

[BMWDave]

The Tib they are talking about is a twin engine Tib with 300hp turbo engine on each ends and AWD.
It runs very low 11 second 1.4 mile times and makes the best burnouts I've ever seen.

Is there any video available of it?