Jaguar XF

[TBR]

Of course Mercedes is actually the one that ripped off Jaguar.

[Raza]

Of course Mercedes is actually the one that ripped off Jaguar.

About forty years later, and I wouldn't really call that a ripoff.

[Tave]

I don't know. I think it's more of a coincidence than a direct rip-off from the E-class. What else were they going to do with the lights? A fender like that wasn't going to happen.

[Tave]

Besides Raza, you're missing a more important point, the XJ had been doubling its headlights like that for years.

[Raza]

True, but I don't think that either company ripped the other off.

[ChrisV]

naw, Jag and Mercedes were cloning the '70 1/2 Camaro Z/28...



(even if the Jag came out first... )

[ChrisV]

The X-Type looked nice. It was a Contour for $35K. Come on. I'm sure it wasn't a bad car, compared to the other members in the class, it did indeed suck.

JHold up here. The SVT Contour was a $25k Contour. Take that exceelent car (and recognized value in it's day) and ad a larger engine, Jaguar styling in and out (with more luxury appointments) and AWD, and you had a pretty decent car that SHOULD have came in at just under $30k. At that price point it would have been considered a feature laden value.

I'd love one with a bit of tweaking to the 3.0, larger whels, and a mild body kit (like I've posted here before)



This car in black with the 3.0 turbo kit for the SVT would be fun...

[Raza]

I've never driven an SVT Contour, but it seems like another case of AWD being a hindrance, and perhaps another case of luxury meaning lacking fun.  The X Type was really not fun at all to drive.  Very numb, very subpar when it comes to the driving experience compared to other cars in the class, it seems.  I love the X Type because it looks amazing, but I wish it were better to drive. 

[ChrisV]

I've never driven an SVT Contour, but it seems like another case of AWD being a hindrance, and perhaps another case of luxury meaning lacking fun.  The X Type was really not fun at all to drive.  Very numb, very subpar when it comes to the driving experience compared to other cars in the class, it seems.  I love the X Type because it looks amazing, but I wish it were better to drive. 

Well, to be fair, it didn't have the suspension upgrades the SVT has, like the larger rear swaybar and performance shocks/springs. It was tuned more for luxury than sport, and I daresay with the SVT style upgrades, the AWD would make it more like an S4 than the small luxury car it was.

[Raza]

Well, to be fair, it didn't have the suspension upgrades the SVT has, like the larger rear swaybar and performance shocks/springs. It was tuned more for luxury than sport, and I daresay with the SVT style upgrades, the AWD would make it more like an S4 than the small luxury car it was.

I would really like to see how that would turn out. 

[omicron]

Of course, when we're talking about a brand such as Jaguar, one shouldn't have to finish off one's car with various upgrades before it will handle or steer properly. Flaws can be acceptable if the trade-off is sufficiently appealing to the buyer - look at the original XJ series, which was built by BL cavemen with pieces of rock and finger-paint, but was so lovely to look at; so serene and luxurious to ride in; so rapid with the 4.2 six or 5.3 V12; but the X-type just doesn't seem.......sufficiently special?

Maybe I'm just too caught up in all the leather, walnut and tweed coats powered by jet engines of Jaguars past. A pipe, smoking jacket and slippers for me, then.

Of course, in complete contradiction to my first paragraph, a British Racing Green X-type with all its chrome intact, lovely wheels like those on the black example Chris posted, and a bit of suspension and powertrain fiddling here and there, would make for a delightful car.

[Byteme]

Of course, when we're talking about a brand such as Jaguar, one shouldn't have to finish off one's car with various upgrades before it will handle or steer properly. Flaws can be acceptable if the trade-off is sufficiently appealing to the buyer - look at the original XJ series, which was built by BL cavemen with pieces of rock and finger-paint, but was so lovely to look at; so serene and luxurious to ride in; so rapid with the 4.2 six or 5.3 V12; but the X-type just doesn't seem.......sufficiently special?

Maybe I'm just too caught up in all the leather, walnut and tweed coats powered by jet engines of Jaguars past. A pipe, smoking jacket and slippers for me, then.

Of course, in complete contradiction to my first paragraph, a British Racing Green X-type with all its chrome intact, lovely wheels like those on the black example Chris posted, and a bit of suspension and powertrain fiddling here and there, would make for a delightful car.

I really wanted to like the X-type, really did.  We looked at them when they first came out and were unimpressed.  My wife and I are both familiar with Jaguars  It's a nice design, nice materials, but....................

It didn't really feel like a Jaguar. It's nice and seems competent, but it just didn't have that intangible, undefinable Jaguar feel.

Volume?  "Damn this thing seems small".  Regardless of published interior volume the thing seemed very small.  Some times good things don't come in small packages.

Looks?  Everytime we see one from the rear my wife remarks that it looks like a Taurus.  And it does.  You don't buy a Jaguar becasue it blends in with the background. 

[ChrisV]

Of course, when we're talking about a brand such as Jaguar, one shouldn't have to finish off one's car with various upgrades before it will handle or steer properly.

Any luxury car can stand upgrades to get it to work better, especially when tuned from the factory to be soft and compliant instead of sporty. Jaguar luxury sedans have ALWAYS been on the luxury side of sport-luxury, and rather soft. That's why there were the R versions that were upgrades to the S type and XJ and even the sporty XK to get them to handle better. My XJ6 would have needed better suspension tuning for sport to keep up with a same vintage BMW.

The X type was tuned to ride like a Jag in a small car package, which made it soft in comparison to a similar BMW or Audi. An R type of the car coupld have been like my SVT pretty easily, but they felt that that market was too small (As SVT found out with the Contour, and outSTANDING car that was not sought out by the public)

Flaws can be acceptable if the trade-off is sufficiently appealing to the buyer - look at the original XJ series, which was built by BL cavemen with pieces of rock and finger-paint, but was so lovely to look at; so serene and luxurious to ride in; so rapid with the 4.2 six or 5.3 V12; but the X-type just doesn't seem.......sufficiently special?

It was going for the high volume level, which, like teh 3 series, makes it less than special. I have to agree. But it also makes for a good used value as it depreciated like astone (like most luxury cars)

Maybe I'm just too caught up in all the leather, walnut and tweed coats powered by jet engines of Jaguars past. A pipe, smoking jacket and slippers for me, then.

I agree. We are the "Joe Foreigners" that Top Gear talked about in the test drive of the XF.

Of course, in complete contradiction to my first paragraph, a British Racing Green X-type with all its chrome intact, lovely wheels like those on the black example Chris posted, and a bit of suspension and powertrain fiddling here and there, would make for a delightful car.

And not very expensive on the secondary market these days, I'd suspect. I'd like a black one. Or if it was BRG, a dark pearlescent version of BRG.

[/quote]

[omicron]

Any luxury car can stand upgrades to get it to work better, especially when tuned from the factory to be soft and compliant instead of sporty. Jaguar luxury sedans have ALWAYS been on the luxury side of sport-luxury, and rather soft. That's why there were the R versions that were upgrades to the S type and XJ and even the sporty XK to get them to handle better. My XJ6 would have needed better suspension tuning for sport to keep up with a same vintage BMW.

I hear the current XJ does an excellent job of maintaining Jaguar ride quality with BMW-rivalling handling, which is very pleasing news - there's a comparison test in one of my magazines somewhere featuring an Audi A8 3.7, BMW 735i and XJ8, and the Jag is applauded for its spirited driving characteristics. I'll have to dig it up again.

The previous-model XJ, though, as you point out, wasn't quite so accomplished. Makes one wonder what sort of ride/handling balance (and interior space efficiency, for that matter) Jaguar could have achieved had development of the X-type been carried out now, or perhaps paid greater attention to a mid-life facelift.

[ChrisV]

Makes one wonder what sort of ride/handling balance (and interior space efficiency, for that matter) Jaguar could have achieved had development of the X-type been carried out now, or perhaps paid greater attention to a mid-life facelift.

Or if they had built an R model from this platform: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/27555/ford_mondeo_st220.html

[Raza]

I must say that Jag's resale stone seems smoother than others...

[ChrisV]

Hmm. Looking at the Mondeo ST220 reviews, I can't help but notice that it's price range falls into the X Type's range, with an price of approx. $32k US if we had got it. Add AWD and a few more luxury amenities and I can see how the X type came in at $35k. Too bad. Give the X type the ST220/SVT suspension and sell it for under $32k and they could have had a winner, due to the fact that the SVT/ST220 outhandled the X Type's competition, and it was FWD...

[LonghornTX]

I guess I am going to be the only one that says this, but wow, does this car look boring to me.  It now looks like an everyday sedan, not a Jaguar, to me at least.  Very uninspiring and very dull.  Those wheels are the worst of all...

The interior, with its gimicky features is just as bad.  I mean, the gearshift pops out of the center console and the vents close when the car is off?  Are you kidding me?  What happens if the mechanical mechanism breaks that lifts the shifter knob out of its recessed abode?

I don't mean to offend anyone with these opinions, and I am sorry if I do, but I give this new XF a C+ on a good day...

[Panama Jack]

Jaguar reliability increased greatly under ford.

They just need better designs in my opinion.

[Raza]

I guess I am going to be the only one that says this, but wow, does this car look boring to me.  It now looks like an everyday sedan, not a Jaguar, to me at least.  Very uninspiring and very dull.  Those wheels are the worst of all...

The interior, with its gimicky features is just as bad.  I mean, the gearshift pops out of the center console and the vents close when the car is off?  Are you kidding me?  What happens if the mechanical mechanism breaks that lifts the shifter knob out of its recessed abode?

I don't mean to offend anyone with these opinions, and I am sorry if I do, but I give this new XF a C+ on a good day...

Is that stuff going to make it to production?

[Byteme]

Is that stuff going to make it to production?

Why yes, yes it is.


I have mixed feelings about that kind of stuff.  It's cute until it breaks and then its generally time to break out the billfold and KY jelly.   

[ChrisV]

I guess I am going to be the only one that says this, but wow, does this car look boring to me.  It now looks like an everyday sedan, not a Jaguar, to me at least.  Very uninspiring and very dull. 

We are the "Joe Foreigner" that is described in the video, wanting Jaguars to continue to look like Jaguars, instead of interchangeable modern sedans. As a thoroughly modern British sedan, I like it. As a Jaguar, not so much.

It'll make a hell of a Tata though...

[93JC]

It's cute until it breaks and then its generally time to break out the billfold and KY jelly.   

[LonghornTX]

We are the "Joe Foreigner" that is described in the video, wanting Jaguars to continue to look like Jaguars, instead of interchangeable modern sedans. As a thoroughly modern British sedan, I like it. As a Jaguar, not so much.

I like the design of the new Mondeo more than this unfortunately.