raise highway and interstate speedlimits 10 MPH

[Byteme]

It's a cause an effect though, tailgaters do not cause lane camping but lane camping causes people to tailgate.  So if it were not for lane campers, there would be less tailgaters.  And I am only generalizing the situation here..

I drive 3, 4 and 5 lane freeways to work every day.  There are Bozos tailgating in every lane, not just the far left one.

[NomisR]

Well, on the note of tailgating, yes people tailgate in all lanes but the distance one person is comfortable with differs from the next.  Also, it's perception depending on the height of your car vs their car too.  It may seem like someone is tailgating you but they're really not, it's just because their car is higher. 

I generally keep a good 3 sec distance behind a car but some actually thought I was tailgating them only because they're going god awefully slow.. I wasn't tailgating as I was doing the legally recommended distance, but because of their speed, the distance is closer.. 

[Byteme]

Well, on the note of tailgating, yes people tailgate in all lanes but the distance one person is comfortable with differs from the next.  Also, it's perception depending on the height of your car vs their car too.  It may seem like someone is tailgating you but they're really not, it's just because their car is higher. 

I generally keep a good 3 sec distance behind a car but some actually thought I was tailgating them only because they're going god awefully slow.. I wasn't tailgating as I was doing the legally recommended distance, but because of their speed, the distance is closer.. 

Thanks, after 42 years of driving I can tell if someone is tailgating or not.

[NomisR]

Thanks, after 42 years of driving I can tell if someone is tailgating or not.

You're welcome... just want to make sure because there are plenty of people out there that still don't know how to driven even after so many years of driving.  I mean, why would people slow down almost to a stop from the middle of a lane that's 2 car wide just to make a right turn when you should logically move over to the right to make the right turn.. and it's people that's been driving for 30+ years. 

[dsred]

Only if the rest of us don't know how to drive. If you can't handle the hazard of someone driving slower than you are, you shouldn't be driving at a high rate of speed.

This post right here is indicative of the "holier than thou" attitude of the left lane camper. If you can't get it through your thick skull how dangerous this practice is your license should be revoked immediately.

[dsred]

I'm seeing more and more of a third kind, those who are apparently there just because they feel it's their right to make those behind them obey the speed limit. 

Bingo. We have a winner.

I normally speed where it is safe to do so.  In town, on a crowded freeway isn't the place to speed; same for surface streets.  There are just too many clowns on their cell phones, reading books, eating, farting around with their GPS, radio or whatever;  too many inattentive drivers, all moving along at more or less the same speed.

Too many people (particularly women) treat their cars like their living room, dining room or office. I actually had one idiot say to me that she uses her "downtime" while driving to catch up on her messages and phone calls she was unable to make during the day. I saw a chick on the way to work this morning reading some papers spread out on her steering wheel at 70 MPH! I guess the wheel makes a good reading stand.

Now add in some Bozo who feels it's his god given right to go faster than everybody else in the left lane (and he will get right on your bumper if you don't) and the chances of an accident that involves several cars and inconveniences everybody go up significantly.

Agreed... to a point. If you are passing someone once you clear the pass you should move to the right lane in case someone else wishes to pass and they happen to be going faster than you. If someone is impatient while you are completing your pass they are an asshole. If you remain in the left lane after completing a pass and the lane to the right is clear YOU are the asshole...


[/quote]

[S204STi]

My thought is that until tires are all rated for at least 100mph with aggressive in-tire pressure monitoring systems, it would be sheer folly to allow those speeds on the interstate.  Running a snow tire at 20psi at 85-90 mph is asking for a blowout, and at those speeds it would likely be fatal. 

Even if we do meet those criteria, there are people that have a hard enough time driving 75 out west, from either the crappy condition of their vehicle, underpowered drivetrains, or just ineptitude behind the wheel.  The problem with the German Autobahn right now, based on an article I read in a recent issue of Automobile Magazine, is that when overtaking someone doing 70mph when you're doing 125 leaves very little room for error.  And that those speeds even the most diligent mirror-checker will likely miss you if you're passing on a bend.

As it is, I think 75 is pretty much ideal.  I can get up to 90 on some days anyway with the flow of traffic, and even if the cops are out I can do 80 without a ticket.  The extra 10mph basically only gains me an extra few minutes over the course of 100miles of driving, and most people never drive that far on a given day, so that would be moot.  The other thing it does it decrease my fuel economy.  Wind resistance ramps up greatly at those speeds, as I understand, meaning that for an extra 10mph I'm getting raped at the fuel pump.  Now, that might be my judgement call -- which it is -- but if I were a legislator and I had to consider the issue of energy dependence that we have in this country I would not pass a bill authorizing a speed limit of 85mph, for that reason alone not to mention the safety issues I mentioned before.

[Raza]

My thought is that until tires are all rated for at least 100mph with aggressive in-tire pressure monitoring systems, it would be sheer folly to allow those speeds on the interstate.  Running a snow tire at 20psi at 85-90 mph is asking for a blowout, and at those speeds it would likely be fatal. 

Even if we do meet those criteria, there are people that have a hard enough time driving 75 out west, from either the crappy condition of their vehicle, underpowered drivetrains, or just ineptitude behind the wheel.  The problem with the German Autobahn right now, based on an article I read in a recent issue of Automobile Magazine, is that when overtaking someone doing 70mph when you're doing 125 leaves very little room for error.  And that those speeds even the most diligent mirror-checker will likely miss you if you're passing on a bend.

As it is, I think 75 is pretty much ideal.  I can get up to 90 on some days anyway with the flow of traffic, and even if the cops are out I can do 80 without a ticket.  The extra 10mph basically only gains me an extra few minutes over the course of 100miles of driving, and most people never drive that far on a given day, so that would be moot.  The other thing it does it decrease my fuel economy.  Wind resistance ramps up greatly at those speeds, as I understand, meaning that for an extra 10mph I'm getting raped at the fuel pump.  Now, that might be my judgement call -- which it is -- but if I were a legislator and I had to consider the issue of energy dependence that we have in this country I would not pass a bill authorizing a speed limit of 85mph, for that reason alone not to mention the safety issues I mentioned before.

You know that people already drive 85-90mph, right? 

[S204STi]

You know that people already drive 85-90mph, right? 

Not legally, and not always safely, as you can see.  My point is that if you bump the speed limit to 85mph people will be doing 100.  It's just going to happen.  And since I disagree with the OP, and don't consider most vehicles to be safe enough to drive at those speeds, I don't like the idea.

[Soup DeVille]

Not legally, and not always safely, as you can see.  My point is that if you bump the speed limit to 85mph people will be doing 100. 

I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think people drive whatever speed they feel is safe most of the time anyways.

[S204STi]

I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think people drive whatever speed they feel is safe most of the time anyways.

I think I've heard something to that effect, that basically the natural speed for most people is roughly 85mph.  I could be wrong, but I think the main issue I take with it is that we are suddenly "safe" enough technologically to do it safely.  I don't see that.  Each time I bring a car into the shop I check the tires, and each time this winter the tires have been 10-20% low on air, or more.  People neglect their vehicles.  Remember the Firestone tire fiasco?  It was because tire pressures were set low at the dealers, and consequently there was little room for error before the tires overheated and shredded on the freeway.  Most driver's I know would have no idea how to control a car that suddenly lost a tire at over 85mph.

[Tave]

It's a cause an effect though, tailgaters do not cause lane camping but lane camping causes people to tailgate.  So if it were not for lane campers, there would be less tailgaters.  And I am only generalizing the situation here..

That is not the point. A blown tire may cause one to go off the road. Should you crank your wheel to the right the second you hear one pop?


Tailgaiting is not involuntary. Just like the camper himself, the person who does it makes a decision. You can come across a lane-camper and not tailgate him.


The generalization is this: yes, camping is bad; yes, it leads to tailgating; but tailgating is also bad, and camping isn't an excuse for tailgating.

[CALL_911]

[GoCougs]

So wouldn't enforcing left lane camping actually make the road safer, by reducing congesting and increase flow of traffic.  Therefore lane campers are making it more dangerous to the rest of us? 

Is all left lane camping a ticketable offense? In my state the closest I've seen are such signs as "slow traffic keep right" or "slow vehicles may use shoulder" or "vehicles with trailiers not allowed in left lane." So, if one is impeding traffic by going way below the speed limit, then yes, it's a safety problem - but that is really rare, and would be a problem in any lane.

I don't think that doing the speed limit, or close to it, in the left lane is (or should be) a ticketable offense really. A lot of the interstate I drive is two lane and 70 mph limit. I'll be danged if I'm diving in and out of the right lane, dodging 50 mph big rigs or Sunday drivers such to give quarter to some guy playing AJ Foyt at 90 or 100 mph. That's not how US traffic laws work, the average driver is not accustomed to such large speed disparaties, and the average two-lane highway/freeway isn't built for it.

[Rupert]

I think I've heard something to that effect, that basically the natural speed for most people is roughly 85mph.  I could be wrong, but I think the main issue I take with it is that we are suddenly "safe" enough technologically to do it safely.  I don't see that.  Each time I bring a car into the shop I check the tires, and each time this winter the tires have been 10-20% low on air, or more.  People neglect their vehicles.  Remember the Firestone tire fiasco?  It was because tire pressures were set low at the dealers, and consequently there was little room for error before the tires overheated and shredded on the freeway.  Most driver's I know would have no idea how to control a car that suddenly lost a tire at over 85mph.

When I drive 80-85 on the 70 mph speed limited parts of the WA freeways, I pass almost everyone. It's led me to question the data that says people already drive 85 mph.

[bing_oh]

I don't think so. I could be wrong, but I think people drive whatever speed they feel is safe most of the time anyways.

And do you really want to leave it up to the individual drivers to decide what is a "safe" speed for them? I don't know what you see out there, but some of the behavior on the roadways I see from other drivers brings into question whether or not some people should even BE driving. These people make extremely poor decisions and pay little attention to what they're doing while driving under the current laws. The last thing I'd want to see is the idiots out there driving with their heads firmly implanted in their butts at whatever speed THEY feel is safe.

That's not to mention what the definition of "safe" really is. For example, we have many young drivers on the roadway who don't understand the limits of their vehicles or their own limitations as drivers because they lack experience. And, it's a medically-proven fact that the pathways of the brain directly associated with decision-making...especially decision-making as it is connected to consequences...are not fully formed until past the teenage years. Do you trust a person with little or no real-world experience in operating a motor vehicle AND at a developmental point in their biology that they have difficulty making cause and effect decisions decide what they think is an "safe" speed to drive without any limitations?

[Byteme]

That's not to mention what the definition of "safe" really is. For example, we have many young drivers on the roadway who don't understand the limits of their vehicles or their own limitations as drivers because they lack experience. And, it's a medically-proven fact that the pathways of the brain directly associated with decision-making...especially decision-making as it is connected to consequences...are not fully formed until past the teenage years. Do you trust a person with little or no real-world experience in operating a motor vehicle AND at a developmental point in their biology that they have difficulty making cause and effect decisions decide what they think is an "safe" speed to drive without any limitations?

And the average age of a member of this forum is????????????????????     


Nuff said, I think 

[Tave]

That's nothing. I can name two or three of us who've had a wreck in the last month.

[Raza]

That's nothing. I can name two or three of us who've had a wreck in the last month.

And at least one of them is in his 30s. 

[Byteme]

And at least one of them is in his 30s. 

God damn kids.   

[Raza]

God damn kids.   

Personally, I'm more worried about housewives and octogenarians.  They're the only ones who have almost run me off the road by accident.  The only guy who almost ran me off the road on purpose looked about 50.

[NomisR]

That is not the point. A blown tire may cause one to go off the road. Should you crank your wheel to the right the second you hear one pop?


Tailgaiting is not involuntary. Just like the camper himself, the person who does it makes a decision. You can come across a lane-camper and not tailgate him.


The generalization is this: yes, camping is bad; yes, it leads to tailgating; but tailgating is also bad, and camping isn't an excuse for tailgating.

Yeah, but you think the lane camper can actually control their car when their tires pop at 65mph when he/she can't even look behind him/her and have the courtesy to move over?  Also, if it does happen, wouldn't it be significantly more dangerous to EVERYONE becuase there's a whole mess of cars behind the camper vs a slightly less congested road? 

My point is simply, enforce lane camping and you'll see a greater drop in accidents and fatalities than actually enforcing speed limit.  Speed limit only effects the person that's drivinig increasing his chances of accident but lane camping increases chances of accident for everyone else by the fact that it reduces traffic flow and everyone is than in a more congested situation than they normally would be. 

[Raza]

Oh my god, we should lower speed limits in case there's a nuclear attack!  Have you ever tried to control a car at 65mph during a nuclear explosion?

[NomisR]

Is all left lane camping a ticketable offense? In my state the closest I've seen are such signs as "slow traffic keep right" or "slow vehicles may use shoulder" or "vehicles with trailiers not allowed in left lane." So, if one is impeding traffic by going way below the speed limit, then yes, it's a safety problem - but that is really rare, and would be a problem in any lane.

I don't think that doing the speed limit, or close to it, in the left lane is (or should be) a ticketable offense really. A lot of the interstate I drive is two lane and 70 mph limit. I'll be danged if I'm diving in and out of the right lane, dodging 50 mph big rigs or Sunday drivers such to give quarter to some guy playing AJ Foyt at 90 or 100 mph. That's not how US traffic laws work, the average driver is not accustomed to such large speed disparaties, and the average two-lane highway/freeway isn't built for it.

Well average drivers are.. well stupid.. and then you have half of those drivers that's even worse.. that's something to think about it. 

So it means at least 50% of the drivers are below average.  True enforcement for safety would be to get the below average drivers off of the road to make the rest of us safer.  They're the lowest common denominator that we're catering to and everyone is happy about being lumped in with the dumbest ppl on the road? 

Either way, depending on the state but some states do have laws that pertain to lane camping.  CA is an example that's never enforced because it doesn't make money..

And everyone is so ingrained with the idea that speed kills that they don't consider anything else eventhough it's been shown that speed isn't the #1 or even top 4 of the primary reasons for it. 

Of course i'm not advocating unlimited speeding but responsible speeding.  Everyone should be responsible for their own actions.. but we shouldn't be limiting everyone if they're capable of something someone else is not.

[NomisR]

When I drive 80-85 on the 70 mph speed limited parts of the WA freeways, I pass almost everyone. It's led me to question the data that says people already drive 85 mph.

Everyone in WA drives like old people or can't drive at all.  Had a family friend enter a freeway at 35 mph and then proceed to go all the way to the left most lane at the same speed.  And yes that's in WA. 

[NomisR]

And do you really want to leave it up to the individual drivers to decide what is a "safe" speed for them? I don't know what you see out there, but some of the behavior on the roadways I see from other drivers brings into question whether or not some people should even BE driving. These people make extremely poor decisions and pay little attention to what they're doing while driving under the current laws. The last thing I'd want to see is the idiots out there driving with their heads firmly implanted in their butts at whatever speed THEY feel is safe.

That's not to mention what the definition of "safe" really is. For example, we have many young drivers on the roadway who don't understand the limits of their vehicles or their own limitations as drivers because they lack experience. And, it's a medically-proven fact that the pathways of the brain directly associated with decision-making...especially decision-making as it is connected to consequences...are not fully formed until past the teenage years. Do you trust a person with little or no real-world experience in operating a motor vehicle AND at a developmental point in their biology that they have difficulty making cause and effect decisions decide what they think is an "safe" speed to drive without any limitations?

My feeling is, everyone should be driving an open wheeled go karts instead of a metalic cacoon that they call a car.. that way, everyone is more "in tuned" to the road instead of being isolated from it which gives them a false sense of security causing them to act like themselves.. (being stupid)

[Soup DeVille]

And do you really want to leave it up to the individual drivers to decide what is a "safe" speed for them?

By and large they already do; that's why speeding is such a routine.

I'm not saying we should eliminate speed limits altogether, but that they should more directly reflect the speeds that people (as an average) are already driving.

Making the speed limit reflect reality and then ticketing only the clearly dangerous "speeders" makes sense to me.

[Eye of the Tiger]

And do you really want to leave it up to the individual drivers to decide what is a "safe" speed for them?

Absolutely 100% no doubt about it. If a driver can't decide what a reasonable speed is for any given situation, they shouldn't be driving, period. Before you jump on me again for being a speed crazy lunatic that just wants to do 100mph down every road, let me inform you that I quite often have traffic tailgating my ass, especially through residential areas. I constantly adjust my speed for whatever the conditions are, while the people riding my butt only want to maintain the status quo, 5-10mph over the speedlimit no matter what.

[S204STi]

Is all left lane camping a ticketable offense? In my state the closest I've seen are such signs as "slow traffic keep right" or "slow vehicles may use shoulder" or "vehicles with trailiers not allowed in left lane." So, if one is impeding traffic by going way below the speed limit, then yes, it's a safety problem - but that is really rare, and would be a problem in any lane.

I don't think that doing the speed limit, or close to it, in the left lane is (or should be) a ticketable offense really. A lot of the interstate I drive is two lane and 70 mph limit. I'll be danged if I'm diving in and out of the right lane, dodging 50 mph big rigs or Sunday drivers such to give quarter to some guy playing AJ Foyt at 90 or 100 mph. That's not how US traffic laws work, the average driver is not accustomed to such large speed disparaties, and the average two-lane highway/freeway isn't built for it.

It is ticketable in CO, as well as OK.

[S204STi]

By and large they already do; that's why speeding is such a routine.

I'm not saying we should eliminate speed limits altogether, but that they should more directly reflect the speeds that people (as an average) are already driving.

Making the speed limit reflect reality and then ticketing only the clearly dangerous "speeders" makes sense to me.

I tend to agree with that idea, actually.