Challenger officially revealed!

[Laconian]

God, Nethead.  Just buy a fucking Mustang and stop making me read about how awesome they are.

He would, but he's paralyzed by indecision over which of the 600,000 limited editions he should buy.

[Vinsanity]

He would, but he's paralyzed by indecision over which of the 600,000 limited editions he should buy.

He's probably waiting for the Vanilla Ice edition

[ChrisV]

A 0.35 drag coefficient on a newly-designed sports car is just disgusting. 

It's...not...a...sports...car...It's...a...muscle...car...

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's...not...a...sports...car...It's...a...muscle...car...

Doesn't matter.

[Raza]

Doesn't matter.

Well, it's half that of a Formula 1 car.  So why don't you complain about how F1 cars are bricks?

That list you posted shows that this has the same coefficient as an Aston Vanquish. 

[280Z Turbo]

Well, it's half that of a Formula 1 car.  So why don't you complain about how F1 cars are bricks?

That list you posted shows that this has the same coefficient as an Aston Vantage. 

Frontal area

[Raza]

Frontal area

I know why F1 cars have high drag coefficients.

I was just saying that complaining about the Challenger's cD is silly when a car like the Aston Martin Vanquish or whatever costs ten times more and has the same drag. 

[Submariner]

I don't have to listen to you!

You think the XJ is sexy.

It is!  Jesus...

[CALL_911]

The XJ is not just sexy; it is sex.

Think so?

Not the Jaguar XJ, the Jeep XJ (Cherokee).

[Eye of the Tiger]

Well, it's half that of a Formula 1 car.  So why don't you complain about how F1 cars are bricks?

That list you posted shows that this has the same coefficient as an Aston Vantage. 

F1 cars create drag on purpose.

Aston Vantage is a POS.

Here you guys are, defending one of the serious flaws that are inherent in some of these blantenly retro designs - and why? Why do you take it so personally that I dislike flawed designes? Because you're not thinking outside the box. All you can think about is the way you think things are supposed to be. You want to say muscle cars are supposed to look a certain way, therefore aerodynamics are irrelevant. Meanwhile, I'm trying to think of ways to make it better. I get into the same damn arguments with so many of the same people for this very reason. If it makes you happy to live in your own little worlds where nothing ever changes for the better, good for you; just don't make it my problem.

[Submariner]

Actually, I don't hate that.

Jesus...How do they screw up so badly?  They finally come up with an exterior that doesn't look like rubbish, and then they slap in an ugly, cheap, expanse of nothing.  Jesus.

[Raza]

F1 cars create drag on purpose.

Aston Vantage is a POS.

Here you guys are, defending one of the serious flaws that are inherent in some of these blantenly retro designs - and why? Why do you take it so personally that I dislike flawed designes? Because you're not thinking outside the box. All you can think about is the way you think things are supposed to be. You want to say muscle cars are supposed to look a certain way, therefore aerodynamics are irrelevant. Meanwhile, I'm trying to think of ways to make it better. I get into the same damn arguments with so many of the same people for this very reason. If it makes you happy to live in your own little worlds where nothing ever changes for the better, good for you; just don't make it my problem.

When you get huffy about nothing, it gets annoying.

[J86]

Jesus...How do they screw up so badly?  They finally come up with an exterior that doesn't look like rubbish, and then they slap in an ugly, cheap, expanse of nothing.  Jesus.

Haha, my thoughts exactly

[SVT32V]

Magazines also compared the Mustang and Charger and the GTO and Charger.  Doesn't mean they're proper comparisons.

The GT500 and Challenger SRT8 are in the same price range and they are both the top performers of their pony car/muscle car lines.

Do you really think they are not direct competitors?

I actually like the SRT8 and am glad it is no longer vaproware like the camaro, but any way you look at they are direct competitors.

[Raza]

So they are in the same price range and they are both the top performers of their pony car/muscle car lines.

Do you really think they are not direct competitors?

Are you asking me if I think the Mustang and Charger compete or if the Mustang and Challenger compete?

Mustang and Charger?  No.

Mustang and Challenger?  Yes. 

But I've never seen a GT500 sell near sticker.  The only one I've seen for sale was selling at 75 grand. 

[SVT32V]

Are you asking me if I think the Mustang and Charger compete or if the Mustang and Challenger compete?

Mustang and Charger?  No.

Mustang and Challenger?  Yes. 

But I've never seen a GT500 sell near sticker.  The only one I've seen for sale was selling at 75 grand. 

How do you know that the Challenger SRT will not also have a healthy markup?

Again, the MRSPs are close.

[Raza]

How do you know that the Challenger SRT will not also have a healthy markup?

Again, the MRSPs are close.

It may or may not.  But we also don't know if the Challenger will handle better than the GT500.

[93JC]

Think so?

Of course he does.

[Eye of the Tiger]

When you get huffy about nothing, it gets annoying.

What do you expect me to say when you post garbage like this?:

Well, it's half that of a Formula 1 car.  So why don't you complain about how F1 cars are bricks?

That list you posted shows that this has the same coefficient as an Aston Vanquish. 

Anyway, most of what I said was meant for ChrisV. I didn't mean to direct it at you.

[Soup DeVille]

A 0.35 drag coefficient on a newly-designed sports car is just disgusting. 

Again: nearly Identical to my Caddy's

I think the new Challenger may be it's performance benchmark!

[Vinsanity]

Here you guys are, defending one of the serious flaws that are inherent in some of these blantenly retro designs - and why? Why do you take it so personally that I dislike flawed designes? Because you're not thinking outside the box. All you can think about is the way you think things are supposed to be. You want to say muscle cars are supposed to look a certain way, therefore aerodynamics are irrelevant. Meanwhile, I'm trying to think of ways to make it better. I get into the same damn arguments with so many of the same people for this very reason. If it makes you happy to live in your own little worlds where nothing ever changes for the better, good for you; just don't make it my problem.

I got your aerodynamic muscle car right here

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I got your aerodynamic muscle car right here

[Submariner]

Intersting math.

If you read the link you would find the MSRP for this car is $37,995.  The MSRP of a 2008 GT500 is $41,930.  So yeah, comparing MSRP the difference is not so significant.

The GT500 usually gets more than invoice, so may the Challenger SRT, so you can't make any assumption. 

Do you really think these cars won't be comparison tested in every mag and are not direct competitors?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-FORDMUSTANG-Black-Shelby-GT500-NAVIGATION-PREMIUM_W0QQitemZ110220631470QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110220631470
$58,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500_W0QQitemZ110221635829QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110221635829
$53,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT-500-6-Speed_W0QQitemZ120217769774QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120217769774
$55,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-New-Shelby-Cobra-GT-500_W0QQitemZ120217855724QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120217855724
$56,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-New_W0QQitemZ120219300330QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120219300330
$56,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2008-FORD-MUSTANG-SHELBY-GT-500-COUPE_W0QQitemZ130194646746QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130194646746
$56,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-500hp-VAPOR-NEW-COLOR_W0QQitemZ130196616673QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130196616673
$58,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-FORD-MUSTANG-SHELBY-GT500-CONVERTIBLE-NAV_W0QQitemZ150213996887QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150213996887
$57,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2008-FORD-MUSTANG-SHELBY-GT-500-CONVERTIBLE_W0QQitemZ160204726974QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160204726974
$57,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-SHELBY-GT-500-CONVERTIBLE_W0QQitemZ160206352582QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160206352582
$55,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT-500-Convertible_W0QQitemZ170190639637QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item170190639637
$55,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-Convertible-PERFECT-FL_W0QQitemZ150213705141QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item150213705141
$57,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-FORD-MUSTANG-SHELBY-COBRA-GT-500_W0QQitemZ140204674418QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140204674418
$57,000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-MUSTANG-SHELBY-GT-4-6L-V8-5-SPD-NAV-SAT-990-BUILT_W0QQitemZ110221638221QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110221638221
$53,000

Those are the prices for Shelby GT,500s.  That is from one page of ebay listings, and only "buy it now" offerers are shown.  There was not one car auctioning below 42,000.  While throwing around MSRP numbers are nice, MSRP means nothing if you cant buy the car for it.  Every car listed was selling at least 12,000 dollars over MSRP, with some pushing 20,000 over.  Unless the same fate awaits the Charger, I can't see these two comparing in the real world, price wise at least.

[Catman]

It's...not...a...sports...car...It's...a...muscle...car...

Thank you, you're spot on with your opinion of this car BTW.  If I was buying this car the coefficient of drag would be the last thing on my list of requirements.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Thank you, you're spot on with your opinion of this car BTW.  If I was buying this car the coefficient of drag would be the last thing on my list of requirements.

New  muscle cars shouldn't even exist. A major car manufacturer with all the technology in the world at its disposal should not be purposely devolving its designs to conform to a once great, but now completely obsolete class of car.  I realize they have a business to run, but quite frankly, I am insulted that they expect me to just ooogle over any pile of garbage they decide to throw a nifty-looking body onto.

[Catman]

New  muscle cars shouldn't even exist. A major car manufacturer with all the technology in the world at its disposal should not be purposely devolving its designs to conform to a once great, but now completely obsolete class of car.  I realize they have a business to run, but quite frankly, I am insulted that they expect me to just ooogle over any pile of garbage they decide to throw a nifty-looking body onto.

Please.....not every car needs to be made to suit you.  It's much more exciting to have diversity among available models.  If you don't like it move on to something you do.  And please don't say "quite frankly".

[Eye of the Tiger]

Please.....not every car needs to be made to suit you.  It's much more exciting to have diversity among available models.  If you don't like it move on to something you do.  And please don't say "quite frankly".

I am not asking that anything be made to suit me. I am simply asking that designs live up to their true potential given how much technology has evolved since the 1960's.

[Catman]

I am not asking that anything be made to suit me. I am simply asking that designs live up to their true potential given how much technology has evolved since the 1960's.

There's plenty of other choices out there, I think your point is irrelevant.  IMO the Challenger is not a horse drawn carriage it's modern and a pretty nice muscle car, a style that remains very popular.

[Eye of the Tiger]

There's plenty of other choices out there, I think your point is irrelevant.  IMO the Challenger is not a horse drawn carriage it's modern and a pretty nice muscle car, a style that remains very popular.

I am sure the car will sell very selll, but progress isn't made by sticking with convention.

[MX793]

The interior is rather uninspiring.  Looks more like the interior from a family sedan than a sporting car (probably because it is, for the most part, made from bits from Chrysler's more mainstream cars).  Needs more visual oomph and more distinction from its LX cousins inside.