How often do you fiddle with ESC settings?

[Raza]

Nope.  No stability control or ABS either.  TCS and ESC weren't even offered for '04 (I don't know if they've since been added to the options list) and ABS was part of a pricy package which I didn't care to pay for.

I don't know man.  I guess I'm one of the minority that finds ABS to be a good thing.  I drove in over 6" of snow and never once had it come on.  I'd rather have it over just a plain lockup, if it came to that.  All my driver's ed videos showed ABS stopping quicker than a lockup even in the wet (and threshold stopping before both).  I remember reviews of the Saleen S7 complaining that the lack of ABS hurt its stopping distance compared to the Murcielago. 

[nickdrinkwater]

ESC?  I don't even have ABS

[ifcar]

I don't know man.  I guess I'm one of the minority that finds ABS to be a good thing.  I drove in over 6" of snow and never once had it come on.  I'd rather have it over just a plain lockup, if it came to that.  All my driver's ed videos showed ABS stopping quicker than a lockup even in the wet (and threshold stopping before both).  I remember reviews of the Saleen S7 complaining that the lack of ABS hurt its stopping distance compared to the Murcielago. 

I don't think you're in the minority on that. I doubt very many people make an active choice to not get ABS, some just don't care enough to make sure their car has it.

[the Teuton]

I turned of TC once in the LaCrosse I drove just to see if all of that torque plus a set of crappy all-season tires really could get a car to do a front-wheel burnout. 

[MX793]

I don't know man.  I guess I'm one of the minority that finds ABS to be a good thing.  I drove in over 6" of snow and never once had it come on.  I'd rather have it over just a plain lockup, if it came to that.  All my driver's ed videos showed ABS stopping quicker than a lockup even in the wet (and threshold stopping before both).  I remember reviews of the Saleen S7 complaining that the lack of ABS hurt its stopping distance compared to the Murcielago. 

So long as you adjust your driving accordingly and know how to react should you feel the wheels locking up, not having ABS is not a tremendous handicap.  I grew up riding and racing dirtbikes and I learned a thing or two about braking on low traction surfaces without ABS along the way.  By no means do I believe that I can outperform a modern ABS system in a contest of braking, but I can get by without it.  I don't think I've ever inadvertently locked up my tires on dry or wet road, and even in the snow it happens infrequently.

I'm not anti-ABS, but I don't deem it a necessity and won't spend a large sum of money extra to have it as an option.  For maybe $200-$300, yeah, I'd likely spring for it (I did on the Bandit).  As memory serves, the option package that included ABS was closer to $1000.  Considering I was already pushing the limits of my budget, that was more than I was willing to spend.

[Eye of the Tiger]

So long as you adjust your driving accordingly and know how to react should you feel the wheels locking up, not having ABS is not a tremendous handicap.  I grew up riding and racing dirtbikes and I learned a thing or two about braking on low traction surfaces without ABS along the way.  By no means do I believe that I can outperform a modern ABS system in a contest of braking, but I can get by without it.  I don't think I've ever inadvertently locked up my tires on dry or wet road, and even in the snow it happens infrequently.

I'm not anti-ABS, but I don't deem it a necessity and won't spend a large sum of money extra to have it as an option.  For maybe $200-$300, yeah, I'd likely spring for it (I did on the Bandit).  As memory serves, the option package that included ABS was closer to $1000.  Considering I was already pushing the limits of my budget, that was more than I was willing to spend.

So, you do have ABS on your Bandit? Have you tested it out? I'm very curious how ABS would feel on a bike, and how it would react if one was stupid enough to jump on the brakes in a turn. As someone who was never allowed the privilage of a dirt bike as kid, I just kind of jumped into motorcycling without knowing nearly as much as I'd like. I think one of my biggest fears is completely losing the front end in a turn. I've come close a few times due to sand on the road, but I haven't completely dumped it yet.

[MX793]

So, you do have ABS on your Bandit? Have you tested it out? I'm very curious how ABS would feel on a bike, and how it would react if one was stupid enough to jump on the brakes in a turn. As someone who was never allowed the privilage of a dirt bike as kid, I just kind of jumped into motorcycling without knowing nearly as much as I'd like. I think one of my biggest fears is completely losing the front end in a turn. I've come close a few times due to sand on the road, but I haven't completely dumped it yet.

I would never jump on the brakes in a turn.  Even with ABS it would result in a crash because the deceleration alters the gyroscopics.

I have tried the ABS once or twice at relatively low speeds in a straight line just to see what it felt like.  Basically just jammed on the brakes at 20 mph to see what would happen.  You feel pulsing in the controls as the ABS cycles (I thought the cycle rate was pretty slow) and there's not really any feel other than the pulsing in the controls once it activates.  More sophisticated systems on pricier bikes may feel a bit different.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I would never jump on the brakes in a turn.  Even with ABS it would result in a crash because the deceleration alters the gyroscopics.

I have tried the ABS once or twice at relatively low speeds in a straight line just to see what it felt like.  Basically just jammed on the brakes at 20 mph to see what would happen.  You feel pulsing in the controls as the ABS cycles (I thought the cycle rate was pretty slow) and there's not really any feel other than the pulsing in the controls once it activates.  More sophisticated systems on pricier bikes may feel a bit different.

But I want to know what would happend if you tried to slide the rear end out, as if you didn't know it had ABS. Would it just tip over?

[MX793]

But I want to know what would happend if you tried to slide the rear end out, as if you didn't know it had ABS. Would it just tip over?

If you jammed on the rear brake while laid over in a corner, it would still probably try to slide out.  But it does do a nice job of keeping things in line when braking in a straight line.

[Onslaught]

I don't have any fancy stuff like that.I don't even have an air bag anymore.
My brothers MX-5 has got it and he runs with it on most of the time. I think he turns it off from time to time.

[r0tor]

All the DSC naysayers would be suprised at the ratio of single car crashes at rx8club with and without DSC on... almost all the people that crashed had it switched off. 

The funniest thing was there was a rumour it gave worse gas mileage going around that forum and in the months after that at least a dozen accidents were traced back to a boob behind the wheel losing control and had the system disabled for gas mileage... lol

[Soup DeVille]

I don't know man.  I guess I'm one of the minority that finds ABS to be a good thing.  I drove in over 6" of snow and never once had it come on.  I'd rather have it over just a plain lockup, if it came to that.  All my driver's ed videos showed ABS stopping quicker than a lockup even in the wet (and threshold stopping before both).  I remember reviews of the Saleen S7 complaining that the lack of ABS hurt its stopping distance compared to the Murcielago. 

Porsche and Volkswagen ABS is far superior to oh, say- Chrysler ABS.

[280Z Turbo]

Porsche and Volkswagen ABS is far superior to oh, say- Chrysler ABS.

Chrysler ABS doesn't do anything.

[Soup DeVille]

Chrysler ABS doesn't do anything.

The ones I've driven it was way too sensitive, and made the car nearly undrivable on hard packed snow or ice.

[Raza]

Porsche and Volkswagen ABS is far superior to oh, say- Chrysler ABS.

Well, it seems fortunate that I've got a Volkswagen and a Porsche, eh?

[280Z Turbo]

Well, it seems fortunate that I've got a Volkswagen and a Porsche, eh?

And I drive a Ford, Chrysler, and rusty old Datsun.

[J86]

ESC?  Ha!

[TBR]

My ABS works part of the time.

[TheIntrepid]

I turned of TC once in the LaCrosse I drove just to see if all of that torque plus a set of crappy all-season tires really could get a car to do a front-wheel burnout. 

and?

[rohan]

My GTO has the off switch and I have it off all the time unless it's snowing and the Cobra doesn't have one and the Durango you can turn off ECS but not TC and I never turn it off in that.

[Raza]

My GTO has the off switch and I have it off all the time unless it's snowing and the Cobra doesn't have one and the Durango you can turn off ECS but not TC and I never turn it off in that.

Does the Cobra even have TCS?  My friend's old 2002 had an off switch.  It doesn't make sense for a "drag" car to have undefeatable TCS.

[the Teuton]

and?

I smelled rubber for a while.

As for all of these fancy ninnies in my own car, who am I trying to kid?  My traction control is called all-wheel-drive.

[heelntoe]

I don't even have ABS.  You guys are weak sauce. 

same.

i was really pushing the car to see when it would break traction. it wasn't very exciting, but  after i got home, i hit the wall when i was parking the car.

[rohan]

Does the Cobra even have TCS?  My friend's old 2002 had an off switch.  It doesn't make sense for a "drag" car to have undefeatable TCS.

I thought I said it doesn't even have it.       No no TC or anyother nanny to worry about - unless you consider the cops as a nanny of sorts?

[AKL]

The Accord only has Traction Control. I only turn it off when I want a little wheel spin. Other than that, it's not really intrusive. I'm not flooring it at every stop light.
I just leave the Santa Fe's ESC on most of the time.

[Raza]

I thought I said it doesn't even have it.       No no TC or anyother nanny to worry about - unless you consider the cops as a nanny of sorts?

Your post was unclear as to whether your Cobra didn't have TCS or didn't have a TCS Off button.

And I do. 

[Raza]

All the DSC naysayers would be suprised at the ratio of single car crashes at rx8club with and without DSC on... almost all the people that crashed had it switched off. 

The funniest thing was there was a rumour it gave worse gas mileage going around that forum and in the months after that at least a dozen accidents were traced back to a boob behind the wheel losing control and had the system disabled for gas mileage... lol

While statistically irrelevant, let's go into this further.

You say that most single car accidents occur when the DSC is turned off.  Okay.  But since the DSC is defeatable, isn't it more likely that people will turn it off when driving harder?  And considering that people often misjudge their abilities (a contributing factor may be electronics making them think they are better than they really are), couldn't it be the fact that they were likely driving beyond their talents?

It's like a tightrope walker.  He works with a net all his life, and then one day decides to remove it.  Then, he runs across the tightrope.  Who'd be surprised if he fell?  But if he never worked with the net, and practiced moving across it quickly, eventually he'd be able to run.

[r0tor]

why do people have to turn it off anyway on public roads? 

If the system kicks in that means you already lost it which means either a) you were driving like an ass or b) something unexpected happened and you failed to keep control. 

I keep it on while on public roads and still have lots of fun tackling the twisties because I never notice it because i keep under control and it has no reason to activate -shrug-

[CALL_911]

why do people have to turn it off anyway on public roads? 

To stick it to the man.

[Raza]

why do people have to turn it off anyway on public roads? 

If the system kicks in that means you already lost it which means either a) you were driving like an ass or b) something unexpected happened and you failed to keep control. 

I keep it on while on public roads and still have lots of fun tackling the twisties because I never notice it because i keep under control and it has no reason to activate -shrug-

Most systems interfere too much.  Try accelerating into traffic around a corner and not bogging because TCS kicked in.  Also, in snow, my car wouldn't move with TCS on. 

And saying that something unexpected happened and you failed to keep control is overly simplistic.  Most systems intervene before corrective action is even necessary. 

Why don't more people just learn how to drive their car and look ahead and be aware of possible hazards?