2010 Pontiac G8 Ute

[omicron]

This is GM's way of upping the production numbers for the OZ plants, and try and make them profitable. One interesting fact is the reason why they have car plants there is that Australia and New Zealand had closed markets (anything imported had ungodly tariffs applied to them) So GM, Ford, and Chrysler built cars in the land down under. These were ofter older models, that were upgraded through the years. Now it comes time that RWD is the in thing, and Aussie cars have been built that way forever.

Anyway, GM will not be producing these cars except for the weird and wacky world of OZ, and this is a way for them to squeeze more profit from a rather loss making division. They started doing this when the RWD Sedans went out of production in North America, and they exported "Caprice" and "Lumina" sedans from Australia to the Middle East.

I believe there was also a minimum percentage requirement for local content, too. That, and many imported cars quite literally fell apart if they were launched in Australia without some degree of local modification. The suspension on the first Falcons collapsed within a few thousand miles, for example, and the first Opel Rekord/Senator prototypes broke in two at the firewall before the launch of the '78 Commodore.

[akuma_supreme]

I think both of you are right.  Australia has had some really wild tariffs and protectionist schemes- one of which led to the Toyota Lexcen and a Nissan-based `Ute.  Also Oz's overall infrastructure makes places like Montana seem positively cosmopolitan by comparison.

It's interesting to think that one of the worst cars ever sold in Australia was also designed specifically for it.

What are your thoughts on the Leyland P76, Omi?

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?p76ukf.htm

[omicron]

I think both of you are right.  Australia has had some really wild tariffs and protectionist schemes- one of which led to the Toyota Lexcen and a Nissan-based `Ute.  Also Oz's overall infrastructure makes places like Montana seem positively cosmopolitan by comparison.

It's interesting to think that one of the worst cars ever sold in Australia was also designed specifically for it.

What are your thoughts on the Leyland P76, Omi?

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?p76ukf.htm

The P76 wasn't a bad car, but it was launched at completely the wrong time and was built with paper and glue by the children of Leyland Australia employees. Right as the 1973 oil crisis rolled into Australia, the I6 and V8 P76 range was launched - existing Falcon and HQ/J Holden models survived, but an unknown competitor from the clever (!) sods at Leyland quickly fell in the toilet.

I hear the 4.4 V8 was a lovely engine, based on the Rover V8 but manufactured locally; and there was never a problem with interior room or handling compared to the equivalent Ford or Holden. It must have been a decent car for the V8 model to have secured the '73 Wheels Car of the Year. However, industrial action limited production quite severely, and did nothing to help build quality as unfinished cars sat about waiting for parts to eventually come in. 

Leyland's legendary (lack of) quality control was pounced upon by the Federal Government of the time as an example of how the Australian car manufacturing industry was lagging behind - but rather than lower tariffs to encourage competition and therefore encourage better build quality, they raised tariffs and demanded higher percentages of local content (inexplicably, the P76 was at almost 100%).

Perhaps Leyland jumped before it was pushed. Who knows?

[dinkeldorf]

A gal I went to school with had a mint P76 with the rover derived V8. It was a sweet ride at the time. I don't know if it was the worst car designed for Oz - the Cortina with the Falcon 250ci six to my mind was completely over engined and woefully crap quality. Not many cars get desribed as "scary", a term routinely applied to said Cortina.

[omicron]

A gal I went to school with had a mint P76 with the rover derived V8. It was a sweet ride at the time. I don't know if it was the worst car designed for Oz - the Cortina with the Falcon 250ci six to my mind was completely over engined and woefully crap quality. Not many cars get desribed as "scary", a term routinely applied to said Cortina.

The stories I've read of the 250ci Cortinas are just brilliant fun - headlining collapsing, front suspensions caving in, and all manner of mechanical ills and rubbish handling. I believe the Leyland Marina Six is also worthy of inclusion on our Worst Cars list, based on reports of the time.

[dinkeldorf]

Well the Marina is of course a gimme. I don't think the P76 deserved the bum rap; the 'tina Six definetly so.  Anyway I'll be anxious to see how the ute goes over here. My guess is a like a cup of cold sick.

[akuma_supreme]

A gal I went to school with had a mint P76 with the rover derived V8. It was a sweet ride at the time. I don't know if it was the worst car designed for Oz - the Cortina with the Falcon 250ci six to my mind was completely over engined and woefully crap quality. Not many cars get desribed as "scary", a term routinely applied to said Cortina.

Sounds like my Contour-  brilliant engineering embodied in a car that required monthly visits to the dealership.  Even more fun, the car shared nothing with any other Ford in the US, so independent mechanics refused to work on it.

I think the P76 got its wrap partly from its poor Leyland build quality, but also because like Omi pointed out it was launched at exactly the wrong time.  Also, at least IMO, the thing looks weird;  poorly proportioned, and with weird details.

[Raza]

Sounds like my Contour-  brilliant engineering embodied in a car that required monthly visits to the dealership.  Even more fun, the car shared nothing with any other Ford in the US, so independent mechanics refused to work on it.

I think the P76 got its wrap partly from its poor Leyland build quality, but also because like Omi pointed out it was launched at exactly the wrong time.  Also, at least IMO, the thing looks weird;  poorly proportioned, and with weird details.

I still want an SVT Contour.

[TheIntrepid]

I still want an SVT Contour.

I know of one in the Toronto area that may be for sale...

[The Pirate]

I still want an SVT Contour.

My brother's friend still has his for sale, as far as I know.  Of course, he's unable to come up with a price...

[ChrisV]

I still want an SVT Contour.

My SVT Contour never needed trips to the dealer in the three years I owned it. Neither did my buddy's base 4 cyl Contour (and man, that car was a DOG.)

[TheIntrepid]

My SVT Contour never needed trips to the dealer in the three years I owned it. Neither did my buddy's base 4 cyl Contour (and man, that car was a DOG.)

Sure, but those are two examples. What about Eddie? He's been nothing but satisfied with his SVT

[The Pirate]

Sure, but those are two examples. What about Eddie? He's been nothing but satisfied with his SVT

M_Power's car is one example.  Though M_Power is probably not alone in his experience, it's not typical.

[akuma_supreme]

My SVT Contour never needed trips to the dealer in the three years I owned it. Neither did my buddy's base 4 cyl Contour (and man, that car was a DOG.)

Well, mine was a piece of shit.  it had more than enough problems for three cars, let alone a single car.

Here's the survey I posted on carsurvey.org:

http://carsurvey.org/review_53943.html

Granted, I did make the mistake of buying a first-year model, but I figured, "Hey, they spent over a billion dollars in development of this car, I can't go wrong!"

I did like the way it drove, when it was running properly.  The ride was a nice mix between large-car isolation and quietness with the reactions of a much smaller car.

[ChrisV]

Sure, but those are two examples. What about Eddie? He's been nothing but satisfied with his SVT

He bought his used and abused. ANY car can fall apart, and a performance car that has been abused will be more likely to. He just didn't heed the warning signs when he bought it.

[ChrisV]

Well, mine was a piece of shit.  it had more than enough problems for three cars, let alone a single car.

Here's the survey I posted on carsurvey.org:

http://carsurvey.org/review_53943.html

Granted, I did make the mistake of buying a first-year model, but I figured, "Hey, they spent over a billion dollars in development of this car, I can't go wrong!"

I did like the way it drove, when it was running properly.  The ride was a nice mix between large-car isolation and quietness with the reactions of a much smaller car.

Yeah, first year, base car. Mine was a '99, and a completely differnt car than yours. From the way they felt sitting in them to the way they drove, the SVT was night and day different.




And saying you woudn't buy another from the manufacturer based on one example...

If I said that, there wouldn't be any cars left to drive (as I've said before, I've had over a hundred cars in the last 30 years, from most major manufacturers, and have had good cars and bad cars from most. The worst? VWs and Hondas. And I love VWs and Hondas. The best? Fords and Chryslers. Seriously. My PT Cruiser was driven hard for 70k miles without one single thing going wrong. And that mileage includes a season of successfully autocrossing it...)

[Cookie Monster]

I would actually go against the anti-FWD thing and go for an SVT Contour, but after Ed's experience I'm scared of them.

It looks like it's a good performing car, and it looks awesome, is cheap and is also practical. Too bad about the questionable reliability.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I would actually go against the anti-FWD thing and go for an SVT Contour, but after Ed's experience I'm scared of them.

It looks like it's a good performing car, and it looks awesome, is cheap and is also practical. Too bad about the questionable reliability.

Just don't buy one with a "collapsed lifter" that turns out to be a bad timing chain tensioner which then proceeds to destroy the engine.

[Cookie Monster]

Those SVT Contour engines are interference engines?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Those SVT Contour engines are interference engines?

don't you remember what happened to Ed's? yes, the valves smashed into the pistons and the engine disintegrated.

[Cookie Monster]

I think I'd rather have an SVT Focus 3 door.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think I'd rather have an SVT Focus 3 door.

+1

[CALL_911]

Sure, but those are two examples. What about Eddie? He's been nothing but satisfied with his SVT

That's 1 example....

[akuma_supreme]

And saying you woudn't buy another from the manufacturer based on one example...

If I said that, there wouldn't be any cars left to drive (as I've said before, I've had over a hundred cars in the last 30 years, from most major manufacturers, and have had good cars and bad cars from most. The worst? VWs and Hondas. And I love VWs and Hondas. The best? Fords and Chryslers. Seriously. My PT Cruiser was driven hard for 70k miles without one single thing going wrong. And that mileage includes a season of successfully autocrossing it...)

It wasn't the quality that has driven me off from Fords so much as the absolute assholes that run those places, in particular their service departments.  Here I had a 3-4 year old car, and they were already claiming they "didn't typically stock parts for this model".  I was told this several times, even for parts that should be pretty typical- like windshield wipers (of which the Contour of course uses a type not found on any other Ford model sold in the US.  Of course since it was such a "unique" model I was pretty much fucked if I tried to find generic parts too.  I started to improvise when I could- at one point I trimmed a pair of generic wiper-blades to fit. 

American dealerships, from what I've witnessed personally as well as some of my parents' experiences over the past decade are still at least a generation behind the Japanese in terms of customer service.  I'm sure part of this is due to Japanese cars tending to share more parts across the entire lineup (therefore requiring fewer types of parts in inventory, and also therefore being more likely to have the needed part in stock).  I also think that their is a basic philosophical difference.  American dealership service bays always struck me as a profit center for the dealership.  They aren't concerned with fixing the problem so much as putting another band-aid on the problem, and wait for your next visit.  The Honda and Toyota service bays  have in general been more customer-friendly, and most importantly, are honest about when they will be finished.

Fuck Ford and may Goddamn every executive who decided to put profits before principle when they released that piece of shit on the marketplace.

[CALL_911]

Sorry buddy, but our Toyota dealer's service department sucks. The quality of their work was horrible, and they also had very poor estimations of time. In fact, our Toyota dealer sounds like your Ford dealer, except we knew that they had the parts in stock, they just took a very long time for no reason. We've had 2 cars that we occasionally got serviced at that dealer, a 1999 Avalon and a 1990 Camry.

[akuma_supreme]

Sorry buddy, but our Toyota dealer's service department sucks. The quality of their work was horrible, and they also had very poor estimations of time. In fact, our Toyota dealer sounds like your Ford dealer, except we knew that they had the parts in stock, they just took a very long time for no reason. We've had 2 cars that we occasionally got serviced at that dealer, a 1999 Avalon and a 1990 Camry.

When I say all Ford dealers are crap its because I went to every Goddamn Ford Dealer in both Phoenix and Tucson at one point or another.  They are all a bunch of baby-raping motherfuckers who sold their souls to Satan decades ago.  Every time I got shitty service at one dealer, I decided to try another one.  Then, after getting shitty service at that dealer, I'd decide to go to the next.  I did this until I exhausted every Ford dealership in town (Tucson wasn't too hard since there were only 2 at the time).  I finally gave up and just started taking it to whichever dealership could get me in the quickest.

[CALL_911]

That's different. Wow, that really sucks.

You're from Tucson? There's this fantastic Mexican restaurant there, Casa Molina? I think that's still the best Mexican food I've had.

[the Teuton]

Granted, I did make the mistake of buying a first-year model, but I figured, "Hey, they spent over a billion dollars in development of this car, I can't go wrong!"

I did like the way it drove, when it was running properly.  The ride was a nice mix between large-car isolation and quietness with the reactions of a much smaller car.

My brother's 1995 runs like a top, and I think it must have close to 190,000 miles on it at the moment.  And from what I understand, the suspension can be interchanged with a Taurus' (who would want to do that is beyond me).  Also, the hubs are the same as the Focus'.  As for most of the rest of the car, well...

[Raza]

My SVT Contour never needed trips to the dealer in the three years I owned it. Neither did my buddy's base 4 cyl Contour (and man, that car was a DOG.)

Do you know where your Contour is?

[akuma_supreme]

That's different. Wow, that really sucks.

You're from Tucson? There's this fantastic Mexican restaurant there, Casa Molina? I think that's still the best Mexican food I've had.

I went to the UofA-  Bear Down!  Casa Molina rocks!   

My brother's 1995 runs like a top, and I think it must have close to 190,000 miles on it at the moment.  And from what I understand, the suspension can be interchanged with a Taurus' (who would want to do that is beyond me).  Also, the hubs are the same as the Focus'.  As for most of the rest of the car, well...

Interesting that the suspension and hubs were about the only things that didn't go wrong with my car.