Road and Track Z06 vs 911 Turbo vs GTR on the track.

[Raza]

Neither is the GT-R, and while it is longer than the 997, it also has a more useable rear seat.

I meant the GT-R compared to the 997. 

Is the rear seat of the GT-R usable?

[SVT666]

Another 2+2 with a V8, imagine that!

It's like Raza's arguments against BMW--yes, we all know the 3-series has gotten bigger, heavier, and more electronically controled............so have the A4 and the C-Class.

I never said it was huge.  I just stated that it's the same size as the Mustang.  Remember, I love the Mustang.

[Tave]

I never said it was huge.  I just stated that it's the same size as the Mustang.  Remember, I love the Mustang.

My mistake, that post wasn't directed at you. I knew you weren't saying it's too big.

[Submariner]

It's almost frightening how well this car performs and how it...outclasses way more expensive competitors, whose builders have many years of sportscar-experience ahead.

Nissan also has billions of dollars to back it up.  There's nothing impressive about that, much like there's nothing impressive about any badge making any car "super."  Horatio Pagani creating the spectular Zonda his first time around, that's spectacular.  Teams upon Teams with pools of money and resources at their hands, that's not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discrediting the cars capibilities.

[Tave]

Nissan also has billions of dollars to back it up.  There's nothing impressive about that, much like there's nothing impressive about any badge making any car "super."  Horatio Pagani creating the spectular Zonda his first time around, that's spectacular.  Teams upon Teams with pools of money and resources at their hands, that's not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discrediting the cars capibilities.

Except the competition the GT-R outclasses also have "billions of dollars to back it up."

If what Nissan did isn't anything special, then why haven't we seen a similar effort from Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, Honda, etc...? Why can't Porsche sell a 997 turbo for 70K?

[NomisR]

Except the competition the GT-R outclasses also have "billions of dollars to back it up."

If what Nissan did isn't anything special, then why haven't we seen a similar effort from Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, Honda, etc...? Why can't Porsche sell a 997 turbo for 70K?

Because Halo cars usually doesn't make boat loads of money.

[Tave]

Then why'd Nissan do it?

[NomisR]

Then why'd Nissan do it?

They need a halo car to help boost sales of lowly cars. 

[ArchBishop]

I doubt it.

[the Teuton]

Because Halo cars usually doesn't make boat loads of money.

How much do you think Porsche makes on a 911 Turbo?  Remember, a lot of the parts in that car are still shared with your average $45,000 Boxster.

[Raza]

How much do you think Porsche makes on a 911 Turbo?  Remember, a lot of the parts in that car are still shared with your average $45,000 Boxster.

Who said the Turbo was the halo car?  It isn't really.  The GT2 is. 

[the Teuton]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-porsche-profits-28000-per-car.html

$28,000 profit per car.  Mind you, that's an average number with V6 Cayennes and Boxsters included.

[the Teuton]

Oh yeah, and Porsche financial analysts and finance people aren't bad, either.

http://www.motortrader.com/26153/Porsche-profits-raise-eyebrows.ehtml

Porsche could make a better GT-R for the same money if they felt a need.  But honestly, people will keep on buying 911s just the way they are because they are Porsches.

[Cookie Monster]

Oh yeah, and Porsche financial analysts and finance people aren't bad, either.

http://www.motortrader.com/26153/Porsche-profits-raise-eyebrows.ehtml

Porsche could make a better GT-R for the same money if they felt a need.  But honestly, people will keep on buying 911s just the way they are because they are Porsches.

+1
Why give up all that money if people will keep buying them?

[CALL_911]

Oh yeah, and Porsche financial analysts and finance people aren't bad, either.

http://www.motortrader.com/26153/Porsche-profits-raise-eyebrows.ehtml

Porsche could make a better GT-R for the same money if they felt a need.  But honestly, people will keep on buying 911s just the way they are because they are Porsches.

Fo'sheezy.

[Raza]

Oh yeah, and Porsche financial analysts and finance people aren't bad, either.

http://www.motortrader.com/26153/Porsche-profits-raise-eyebrows.ehtml

Porsche could make a better GT-R for the same money if they felt a need.  But honestly, people will keep on buying 911s just the way they are because they are Porsches.

Evo chose the GT3 as Car of the Year and Road and Track Car of the Year.  It's not just selling on its badge.

[the Teuton]

Fo'sheezy.

There is no need for Porsche to make a better car right now.  They will, I guarantee it, but it will not happen for a few years, and even then, the price will continue to increase.  Besides, look at their prices right now.  It costs $10,000 to step up to an S model, and then in the 987 models they still don't even get LSD for the money.

[the Teuton]

Evo chose the GT3 as Car of the Year and Road and Track Car of the Year.  It's not just selling on its badge.

Just because it's a great car does not mean that they're not making a killing on it.  A base 911 costs $73,500.  A GT3 starts at $107,500.  Tell me, does it really take $34,000 to make that car that much better?  The realistic answer is no.  But people will continue to buy it because it's essentially a track-ready ultra Porsche.

[MX793]

IIRC, Porsche makes the greatest profit per vehicle sold of any "major" auto manufacturer.  If that doesn't tell you that their prices are inflated a bit, I don't know what else would.  They sell their cars at such a premium because people are willing to pay that kind of money.  So long as buyers are eager and willing to fork over the money, you won't see Porsche selling their cars for less.

[NomisR]

How much do you think Porsche makes on a 911 Turbo?  Remember, a lot of the parts in that car are still shared with your average $45,000 Boxster.

Yeah but 911 turbo isn't or wasn't the halo car.  Also, you have to consider the R&D involved into developing it. 

[Onslaught]

They need a halo car to help boost sales of lowly cars. 

I'm not saying you're wrong but WTF difference do "halo" cars make for manufacturers?
The Ford GT didn't help Ford any these last few years. Has the Viper sold any more Dodge's
for them these days? The FD RX-7 didn't help Mazda at all in any way? They sell more cars
now then they did back in 93-95 without a "halo" car.

Are people going to really go into a Nissan store to look at a GT-R and walk out with a
Sentra because of it? I just don't see it. They are great cars and it's cool that a normal
manufacture wants to make them. But I think it won't make any difference in it's normal
car sales.

[NomisR]

I'm not saying you're wrong but WTF difference do "halo" cars make for manufacturers?
The Ford GT didn't help Ford any these last few years. Has the Viper sold any more Dodge's
for them these days? The FD RX-7 didn't help Mazda at all in any way? They sell more cars
now then they did back in 93-95 without a "halo" car.

Are people going to really go into a Nissan store to look at a GT-R and walk out with a
Sentra because of it? I just don't see it. They are great cars and it's cool that a normal
manufacture wants to make them. But I think it won't make any difference in it's normal
car sales.

To us, no, but I'm sure people will actually buy a car because they someway think their car is associated with the halo car.  It's like, my Sentra has the same power window as the GTR, it makes my car faster!  l33t!  And then they would slap GTR stickers on their Sentras..

It happens...  sadly

[Submariner]

Except the competition the GT-R outclasses also have "billions of dollars to back it up."

Which is why I said, or ment to say, I don't find any high performance car from any major manufacturer to be astonishing.  The actual performance?  Yes.  But the fact they pulled it off?  No.
If what Nissan did isn't anything special, then why haven't we seen a similar effort from Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota, Honda, etc...? Why can't Porsche sell a 997 turbo for 70K?

Any plethora of reasons.  Perhaps they feel they don't need it.  Perhaps they don't have the money, etc.

[r0tor]

For Porsche to make the same money with less vehicle mark-up, they would need for people to buy more cars and for them to make more cars.  No problem getting more people to buy Porsche's if they are $30k cheaper, but good luck getting POrsche to build more cars since they are at max production already.

supply vs demand...

[FordSVT]

It is, but the american press though"turbo awd" vs "turbo awd" and the 911 turbo having more power and runs with it...

The 997 Turbo does not have more horsepower than the GT-R.

I can't afford to buy either car as I'm not interested in a four figure a month car payment. I will say that I still think the the 997 is a better looking car in person, though I do think that the Nissan looks nice. It's just very "in your face" and a bit odd proportion-wise, IMO. It's like a stunning Gallardo and a sexy Corvette had an average looking child.

[Lebowski]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-porsche-profits-28000-per-car.html

$28,000 profit per car.  Mind you, that's an average number with V6 Cayennes and Boxsters included.

those numbers for porsche are usually flawed because they include their financial income in the numerator.

I also like how it cites a "new study".  It doesn't take a "study", you open the annual report and divide operating income by units, it takes 3 seconds.