Panel Recommends Parent Classes, Stickers on Teens' Cars

[TurboDan]

From the Asbury Park Press today..

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/NEWS/80321012

TRENTON ? Parents in New Jersey might have to attend a teen-driving program before their children can apply for a driver's permit.

That's one of the 47 recommendations in the final report of the Governor's Teen Driver
Study Commission that will be released Wednesday. A copy was obtained by The Star-Ledger of Newark.

The report outlines ways to improve safety for teen drivers, who are involved in 12 percent of the state's motor vehicle accidents.

Members say teenagers with provisional driver's licenses should display a placard or sticker on the outside of their cars to identify them to police and other motorists.

The panel also says young motorists should log 50 hours behind the wheel before qualifying for a provisional license

[dazzleman]

I think a lot of the issue does rest with parents, who are either incredibly naive about their kids' driving, or overly lax.

I've seen so many cases where a kid wraps the sportscar his father bought him around a telephone pole, and the father just gets him another one.  Or cases where the parents pay the kids' traffic tickets for them.

A lot of the problem today is that kids don't really fear their parents.  The parents are too worried about being friends with their kids to crack down when they need to, and the kids see the parents as their ally when they get into trouble.

Maybe these classes for parents will help.

[hotrodalex]

The sticker idea is just dumb.

Classes for both the parent and teen are fine, so are the driving hours. But the sticker is just dumb. You shouldn't be required to put a sticker on your car.

[rohan]

I think a lot of the issue does rest with parents, who are either incredibly naive about their kids' driving, or overly lax.

I've seen so many cases where a kid wraps the sportscar his father bought him around a telephone pole, and the father just gets him another one.  Or cases where the parents pay the kids' traffic tickets for them.

A lot of the problem today is that kids don't really fear their parents.  The parents are too worried about being friends with their kids to crack down when they need to, and the kids see the parents as their ally when they get into trouble.

Maybe these classes for parents will help.

Tony?

[Soup DeVille]

The sticker idea is just dumb.

Classes for both the parent and teen are fine, so are the driving hours. But the sticker is just dumb. You shouldn't be required to put a sticker on your car.

I'm taking off my license plates immediately!

[Raza]

I think a lot of the issue does rest with parents, who are either incredibly naive about their kids' driving, or overly lax.

I've seen so many cases where a kid wraps the sportscar his father bought him around a telephone pole, and the father just gets him another one.  Or cases where the parents pay the kids' traffic tickets for them.

A lot of the problem today is that kids don't really fear their parents.  The parents are too worried about being friends with their kids to crack down when they need to, and the kids see the parents as their ally when they get into trouble.

Maybe these classes for parents will help.

Yes, rule by fear is the best way to rule. 

Saddam?  Is that you?

[hotrodalex]

I'm taking off my license plates immediately!

That's different. Everyone has a plate. Only teens would have the sticker. That could be a bad thing. Sexual predators could stalk cars with the sticker, since they know it'll be a teen driving.

My other point is that stickers screw up paint jobs. Is the state going to pay to fix the paint?

[Soup DeVille]

That's different. Everyone has a plate. Only teens would have the sticker. That could be a bad thing. Sexual predators could stalk cars with the sticker, since they know it'll be a teen driving.

My other point is that stickers screw up paint jobs. Is the state going to pay to fix the paint?

It would probably be a window sticker, or even a magnetic one (since teens often drive their parents' car)

[NomisR]

That's different. Everyone has a plate. Only teens would have the sticker. That could be a bad thing. Sexual predators could stalk cars with the sticker, since they know it'll be a teen driving.

My other point is that stickers screw up paint jobs. Is the state going to pay to fix the paint?

Oh yeah, and you can't see it's a teen driving by looking through the window anyways.... 

This isn't a true fix but a bandaide anyways.  It's better than nothing I suppose.

They should really require real driving schools and real driving test.  Most driving classes just involve the kid getting in, the instructer sit there and tell the kid where to go and just drive.. that's it!  And they teach them the rules which most people don't follow anyways. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

@ Governor's Teen Driver Study Commission
More Training. More Training. More Training!

[saxonyron]

I'm not sure a sticker or "Stupid Driver" sign on the roof is going to be effective.  These kids need to have much more severe penalties for driving infractions instead.  One speeding ticket should land a 16 yr old a 30 day suspension, no questions asked.  Two tickets get a longer suspension.  I have a 16 yr old daughter who is on her learner's permit and doing quite well.  In fact she just drove the A6 on a 45 min. highway ride the other day - my first time with her at the wheel on the highway - and she did very well.  But her lack of experience is obvious at every decision point.  She'll be a great driver, I'm pretty sure.  But I'd be much happier knowing that she not only had to fear my retribution if she got a ticket, but would actually have to fear a legal loss of driving priveliges for a substantial abount of time.  Nothing will get through to her better than that.

Might not be popular with some of our members here, and I'm all for speeding (in a judicious and safe manner of course!  ), but a 16 yr old doesn't have the experience or skill to do it safely.  As I've mentioned before, I've had 5 16 yr olds total their cars in front of my house in the 9 yrs that I've lived here - all from speeding on a dirt road. There have been no other accidents by any other age group. 

[bing_oh]

Yes, rule by fear is the best way to rule. 

Saddam?  Is that you?

We sure seemed to have less juvenile criminal problems when parents spanked their kids and nosed around in their business instead of being their best friends, giving them "time outs," and "respecting their privacy."

[Raza]

We sure seemed to have less juvenile criminal problems when parents spanked their kids and nosed around in their business instead of being their best friends, giving them "time outs," and "respecting their privacy."

I'd like to see statistics; at least more than the nostalgia of older people thinking it was better when they were young. 

[NomisR]

I'd like to see statistics; at least more than the nostalgia of older people thinking it was better when they were young. 

We need to teach kids "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".  I did with my dog.. when I first got my dog, he would try to bite me, even drawn blood from the scrapes from his teeth.  So I got pissed and bit him back, now he doesn't even try because he knows he'll be hurt really badly if he tries. 

It's all about respect.

[NomisR]

I'm not sure a sticker or "Stupid Driver" sign on the roof is going to be effective.  These kids need to have much more severe penalties for driving infractions instead.  One speeding ticket should land a 16 yr old a 30 day suspension, no questions asked.  Two tickets get a longer suspension.  I have a 16 yr old daughter who is on her learner's permit and doing quite well.  In fact she just drove the A6 on a 45 min. highway ride the other day - my first time with her at the wheel on the highway - and she did very well.  But her lack of experience is obvious at every decision point.  She'll be a great driver, I'm pretty sure.  But I'd be much happier knowing that she not only had to fear my retribution if she got a ticket, but would actually have to fear a legal loss of driving priveliges for a substantial abount of time.  Nothing will get through to her better than that.

Might not be popular with some of our members here, and I'm all for speeding (in a judicious and safe manner of course!  ), but a 16 yr old doesn't have the experience or skill to do it safely.  As I've mentioned before, I've had 5 16 yr olds total their cars in front of my house in the 9 yrs that I've lived here - all from speeding on a dirt road. There have been no other accidents by any other age group. 

Proper driver's training is really important which most 16 year olds lack.

[bing_oh]

I'd like to see statistics; at least more than the nostalgia of older people thinking it was better when they were young.

Do we really need statistics to show a spike in violent crime amongst teens? As a police officer, I'm getting specific training in how to respond to school shootings, something that wasn't even considered (or, at best, was in the realm of traning for specialized teams like SWAT) when I graduated HS in 1994. High schools and colleges have freakin' lock down plans and drills for when somebody goes postal on campus!

[Rupert]

We need to teach kids "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".  I did with my dog.. when I first got my dog, he would try to bite me, even drawn blood from the scrapes from his teeth.  So I got pissed and bit him back, now he doesn't even try because he knows he'll be hurt really badly if he tries. 

It's all about respect.

That's how dogs teach other dogs things, more or less.

[dazzleman]

We sure seemed to have less juvenile criminal problems when parents spanked their kids and nosed around in their business instead of being their best friends, giving them "time outs," and "respecting their privacy."

I don't know how many parents give teenagers 'time outs.'  With a teenager, a time out is called a grounding.

I think it's not so much a matter of the disciplinary method used, as it is the attitude of the parents.  I think that when parents automatically jump to their kids' defense when they get into trouble, and fight the imposition of consequences rather than imposing their own consequences in addition, they do their kids a great disservice.

As for the stickers, I don't know how practical they are, since teenaged drivers often share a family car, or may be driving the car of somebody who doesn't need a sticker.  I guess it's better than nothing, but I'm not sure I see the effectiveness of it.

I think a lot of the issue is more about attitude than skill.  Many people know how to drive properly, but choose not to because they think they can get away with doing what they want.  While I think we need much better driver training and testing, we also need penalties for unsafe driving that are severe enough to affect attitudes.   All the training in the world doesn't affect attitude, and many people make the mistake of thinking that if you only teach people the right way, they will follow.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

[MX793]

A "sticker" would not need to be a one-time-use, peel and stick affair that you would put on your bumper or in your window.  They could use a magnet or a sticker on a hanger that could be dangled from the rearview mirror like many parking permits.  That way the sigils could be easily removed when someone other than the teen is driving or transfered between vehicles if the teen is using a vehicle other than the one they normally would drive.

This isn't a new concept either.  IIRC, in Europe a driver with a learner's permit must display some sort of sticker or magnet on the rear of the vehicle to warn others that they are a beginner, and in a number of places in the US a drivers' education vehicle must display a "student driver" sticker or magnet.

[saxonyron]

We sure seemed to have less juvenile criminal problems when parents spanked their kids and nosed around in their business instead of being their best friends, giving them "time outs," and "respecting their privacy."

I'd like to see statistics; at least more than the nostalgia of older people thinking it was better when they were young. 

Here's a sample - seems rates are going up.  Not exponentially, obviously, but our "nostalgia of older people" seat of the pants meters are pretty accurate.  It doesn't take much of a study to tell you that 2+2=4, and that you'll end up with problems if you have a generation of boneheaded parents bringing up their kids with the first priority of not damaging their egos by correcting them, or limiting their "empowerment" by laying down some laws. 





edit - tiny graphic.  Check out the link if you want to read the details.  http://hakusyo1.moj.go.jp/en/47/image/simage/h005004001007-2e.jpg

[ifcar]

This is probably the next best thing to requiring continued re-evaluation of driving skills. It's far from that, but it's a step in the right direction. A bad driver isn't going to teach a novice how to be a good driver.

[MaxPower]

These kids need to have much more severe penalties for driving infractions instead.  One speeding ticket should land a 16 yr old a 30 day suspension, no questions asked.  Two tickets get a longer suspension.  But I'd be much happier knowing that she not only had to fear my retribution if she got a ticket, but would actually have to fear a legal loss of driving priveliges for a substantial abount of time.  Nothing will get through to her better than that. 

I agree, and I know at least in ME there are penalties like that...you're on probation for a year or 18 months after you get your license (regardless of age, I think) and it gets suspended for either 60 or 90 days if you get a speeding ticket.  I know, I learned the hard way.

[dazzleman]

I agree, and I know at least in ME there are penalties like that...you're on probation for a year or 18 months after you get your license (regardless of age, I think) and it gets suspended for either 60 or 90 days if you get a speeding ticket.  I know, I learned the hard way.

In New York, new licenseholders are on probation for 6 months, and they suspend your license for 2 months if you get a speeding ticket in that period.  I don't know the laws in Connecticut, since probation is waived for people who trade in out-of-state licenses for a CT license, as I did.

Nice going on the probationary speeding ticket...   I escaped that one, but I knew several people who got snagged during that period....

[Raza]

Do we really need statistics to show a spike in violent crime amongst teens? As a police officer, I'm getting specific training in how to respond to school shootings, something that wasn't even considered (or, at best, was in the realm of traning for specialized teams like SWAT) when I graduated HS in 1994. High schools and colleges have freakin' lock down plans and drills for when somebody goes postal on campus!

Yeah, I'd like to see statistics comparing violence to population size and socioeconomic considerations.  There's likely more to it than "young people are bad now!"

[dazzleman]

Yeah, I'd like to see statistics comparing violence to population size and socioeconomic considerations.  There's likely more to it than "young people are bad now!"

Surprisingly enough, I partly agree with you.

I don't think teenaged drivers are worse today than when I was a teenager.  In fact, teenaged drivers face more legal restrictions than they did when I was that age.

What has changed are two things --  1. Society's tolerance for risk; 2. The capabilities of cars that the typical teenager drives.

Soceity has a much lower tolerance for risk today than it did when I was a teenager.  Back then, people accepted a certain level of 'casualties' on the roads that would be unacceptable today.  And since teenagers and extreme elderly have the highest accident rates, and the extreme elderly are untouchable politically, teenagers bear the brunt.

Not that it isn't partially deserved, but I think we eventually have to get away from this trend toward postponing adulthood more and more because people tend to fuck things up the first time they do them.

[2o6]

The Japanese do something similar. It's required to have a special sticker on your car for 1st year drivers.

[CALL_911]

Not that it isn't partially deserved, but I think we eventually have to get away from this trend toward postponing adulthood more and more because people tend to fuck things up the first time they do them.

Thank you. I fully agree.

[bing_oh]

Not that it isn't partially deserved, but I think we eventually have to get away from this trend toward postponing adulthood more and more because people tend to fuck things up the first time they do them.

Just as you said earlier, teenagers seem to be more and more insulated from the negative consequences of their decisions by their parents today as they were in the past. One of the biggest reasons that people learn from mistakes is the associated consequences. Remove the consequences and the lesson is lost. Essentially, parents are reinforcing bad decisions by shielding their children from the bad consequences that they should otherwise learn from.

[dazzleman]

Just as you said earlier, teenagers seem to be more and more insulated from the negative consequences of their decisions by their parents today as they were in the past. One of the biggest reasons that people learn from mistakes is the associated consequences. Remove the consequences and the lesson is lost. Essentially, parents are reinforcing bad decisions by shielding their children from the bad consequences that they should otherwise learn from.

I think you're completely right.  And now, instead of imposing real consequences, we're simply delaying adulthood longer.

I don't think we should look at the past with rose-colored glasses.  If we looked at the statistics, we'd probably see that accident rates were higher in the past.  Today, we have safer cars that have lowered accident rates.  We also have more traffic, more distractions, higher performing cars, and a lower tolerance for risk in general.

But I really do think there has been a generational shift in parenting.  Baby boomers are the generation that never grew up.  Many are still rebelling against their own parents at 50 years old, so they're often loathe to discipline their own kids when they need it.  And they do try to insulate their kids from all things negative, including negative consequences for unacceptable behavior.  They tend to act as their kids' ally against school authorities, police, or anybody who tries to impose appropriate negative consequences on their kids.  Essentially, while earlier generations of parents thought it was their job to prepare their kids to stand on their own two feet, and deal with the negative things that life may bring, boomer parents think it's their job to provide only the best for their kids, and insulate them from any unhappiness or negativity.

Kids should have some fear of their parents when they get into trouble.  They should not see their parents as allies in helping them escape the consequences for bad behavior.  Unfortunately, that's the role many parents play today.  Plenty don't, but too many do.

[Champ]

So what happens if you have 2 kids?  Would you need to go to classes both times?  What if they were 1 year apart, 5 years, 10 years etc.

My sister just got her permit 2 weeks ago, so this is a interesting subject to me.

I tried to take her out driving in the parking lot yesterday since it snowed 8" but she wasn't having it.