Winning foursomes: A look at the four-cylinder engines from Mercedes-Benz

[Eye of the Tiger]

Better than your Jetta.

No, actually the Jetta is the opposite - it has good power down low, but nothing up top.

[CALL_911]

Yes, but you and others have described them as being torqueless and undriveable in traffic when you have 0 seat time in a Honda 4 cylinder car.
The 2.3L I4 in older Accords feel much peppier than the V6 in my mom's 'cc0rd, and I would know because I've driven them both. Of course, the transmissions are different but that doesn't change the fact that Honda 4 cylinders are "torqueless".

Whoa, whoa, whoa. When did I say they were undriveable in traffic?

And you think the manual vs. auto doesn't make a big difference? It felt peppier, because you had more engine feel, and had more control over the car. If you drove a manual V6, I'm sure you would have thought the V6 as being much more "peppier" than the I4.

Secondly, you accuse me of having no seat time in a Honda 4-cylinder car, yet you say earlier that the 2.0T sucks balls compared? And your experience with the 2.0T is what?
Let's not dwell too much on that point, because it's just going to turn into another bitchfest.

[CALL_911]

+1
Dood Ro, I like how you've driven 1 BMW and think that BMW is God's gift to earth.

3. A 550i, an E46 325i and my Dad's car.

[Cookie Monster]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. When did I say they were undriveable in traffic?

And you think the manual vs. auto doesn't make a big difference? It felt peppier, because you had more engine feel, and had more control over the car. If you drove a manual V6, I'm sure you would have thought the V6 as being much more "peppier" than the I4.

Secondly, you accuse me of having no seat time in a Honda 4-cylinder car, yet you say earlier that the 2.0T sucks balls compared? And your experience with the 2.0T is what?
Let's not dwell too much on that point, because it's just going to turn into another bitchfest.

I'd hope that 50-60 more hp and a lot more torque would at least make up for the fact that it's an automatic, but no. The I4 5 speed had very good acceleration compared to the V6 slushie. Sure the transmission made a big difference but the engine is definitely not "torqueless".
And I have no experience with the 2.0T but I was partially trolling anyways and for me NA>FI.

[Cookie Monster]

3. A 550i, an E46 325i and my Dad's car.

Ok, whatever. They are niec cars but not the answer to everyone's problems.

[The Pirate]

And you think the manual vs. auto doesn't make a big difference? It felt peppier, because you had more engine feel, and had more control over the car. If you drove a manual V6, I'm sure you would have thought the V6 as being much more "peppier" than the I4.

In a D16 equipped Civic, the transmission makes a big difference.  My 5-speed was decently peppy.  Same car with an automatic, not so much.

[ArchBishop]

N54 is the 335i motor.  S54 was the E46 M3 motor.

Oh, so the S54 is the one that is so filled with teenage angst, that it wants to explode, and the N54 was outsourced by the Germans for the Italians and Irishmen (while intoxicated mind you) to build, which explains its rather short fuse, and tendency to heat up.

I love how everyone praises BMW for something that was done over 15 Years ago. Building a 300hp Twin Turbo 6cyl, and hell, the 300ZX even had VVT...

[CALL_911]

Oh, so the S54 is the one that is so filled with teenage angst, that it wants to explode, and the N54 was contracted  the Germans, for the Italians and Irishmen (while intoxicated mind you)to build, which explains its rather short fuse, and tendency to heat up.

I love how everyone praises BMW for something that was done over 15 Years ago. Building a 300hp Twin Turbo 6cyl, and hell, the 300ZX even had VVT...

That's nice and all, but I still don't see the VQ matching the N54's times. Hell, the 535 with the N54 can easily keep up with an M45, and leave an M35 in the dust. The 335i would likely outrun a G35/G37/350Z.

And the S54 is the higher revving one. There were initially some problems, but they got smoothed out in like 2002.

[ArchBishop]

There is a lot more to accleration than Power.

[CALL_911]

There is a lot more to accleration than Power.

Sure.

But the difference in times between VQ-equipped cars and N54-equipped cars are just too great to account for tractional differences.

Listen, I do think the VQ is a fantastic motor. I like it a lot. I just don't appreciate the trolling, "I'm waiting for the Germans to come up with an answer to the VQ". Have you been living under a rock?

[CALL_911]

Ok, whatever. They are niec cars but not the answer to everyone's problems.

Man, this is great. When did I say that they were?!

[ArchBishop]

Sure.

But the difference in times between VQ-equipped cars and N54-equipped cars are just too great to account for tractional differences.

Listen, I do think the VQ is a fantastic motor. I like it a lot. I just don't appreciate the trolling, "I'm waiting for the Germans to come up with an answer to the VQ". Have you been living under a rock?

No answer to the K and VQ. Still.

[Cookie Monster]

Man, this is great. When did I say that they were?!

Uh, when I said I wanted a car, you told me to get a BMW. Same with Pirate, and when Raza asked whether to get an E36, Viggen or Si you said E36, even though you didn't back that up...

[CALL_911]

Uh, when I said I wanted a car, you told me to get a BMW. Same with Pirate, and when Raza asked whether to get an E36, Viggen or Si you said E36, even though you didn't back that up...

I could say the same about you and Honda. You ask a question, I give an answer. Would it make you happy if I replied "Integra Type-R" to each one of those questions?

[CALL_911]

No answer to the K and VQ. Still.

Wait, you're serious?

Now you do the work, show me some instances where the VQ has pulled quicker times than the N54. And use comparable cars.

[Raza]

Nissan actually invented the engine, which is why they're so good at making them.  Before sliced bread, people used to say "this is the best thing since the VQ engine". 

I don't get the big deal about the VQ.  It's not incredibly smooth, it's fairly powerful, but it's also quite large.  I also don't see what's so great about the N54.  BMW finally realized that they should use a turbo.  And then a bunch of them melted.

[CALL_911]

I'm waiting, Archie...

[Cookie Monster]

I could say the same about you and Honda. You ask a question, I give an answer. Would it make you happy if I replied "Integra Type-R" to each one of those questions?

Really? I told Raza that if he could get a nice used example of a Viggen to get that instead but that I'd personally go on the safe side and get an Si.
And I just told Adam to get a Tacoma first. IIRC, that's not a Honda!
And FYI, I want a Nissan and a Mazda right now. Not a Honda.

[CALL_911]

Really? I told Raza that if he could get a nice used example of a Viggen to get that instead but that I'd personally go on the safe side and get an Si.
And I just told Adam to get a Tacoma first. IIRC, that's not a Honda!
And FYI, I want a Nissan and a Mazda right now. Not a Honda.

As I said, I disagree. I don't think you're a Honda troll, but do you really want me to change my opinions to questions, because all of a sudden I'm suggesting BMW too often? Does this work like a quota system? That's stupidity.

[CALL_911]

Anyway, I best be heading out. I have a massive Chem test tomorrow. ArchBishop, when you find some solid evidence that the VQ is blowing N54's away, I'll take you seriously.

[Cookie Monster]

As I said, I disagree. I don't think you're a Honda troll, but do you really want me to change my opinions to questions, because all of a sudden I'm suggesting BMW too often? Does this work like a quota system? That's stupidity.

You're suggesting people get BMW's for everything, regardless of budget...
And no, that's not stupidity. Tell me, how is it any different than Trep going about posting about Camries everywhere?

[CALL_911]

You're suggesting people get BMW's for everything, regardless of budget...
And no, that's not stupidity. Tell me, how is it any different than Trep going about posting about Camries everywhere?

Because my suggestions are suggestions that are relevant, and I know that people have at least a chance of appreciating. Raza ASKED about an E36, and you're flaming me for voting for it! How does that make sense? Trep knows damn well that people hate Camries on this board, yet he keeps going in and suggesting them, causing CarSPIN to play whack-a-mole. More often than not, those suggestions of Camries are irrelevant.

[Cookie Monster]

Because my suggestions are suggestions that are relevant, and I know that people have at least a chance of appreciating. Raza ASKED about an E36, and you're flaming me for voting for it! How does that make sense? Trep knows damn well that people hate Camries on this board, yet he keeps going in and suggesting them, causing CarSPIN to play whack-a-mole. More often than not, those suggestions of Camries are irrelevant.

You wanted him to get the BMW just because it's BMW, even with all its shortcomings compared to the other cars.
And go answer my question in the ARBT.

[CALL_911]

You wanted him to get the BMW just because it's BMW, even with all its shortcomings compared to the other cars.
And go answer my question in the ARBT.

What? I picked the E36, because I believed that it would be just as good a car, and it's RWD too! They're known to handle well, and they're known to be fun cars.

Do you disagree?

[Cookie Monster]

What? I picked the E36, because I believed that it would be just as good a car, and it's RWD too! They're known to handle well, and they're known to be fun cars.

Do you disagree?

Sure they may be good handling and fun, but so is the Viggen and Civic Si, which probably handles better and is faster.
Add to that that they are have more miles for the same cost as the Viggen, get worse gas mileage and aren't as practical, is there any reason to get the E36 over the Viggen (other than if you love  BMW's or don't like Saabs)? No.

[CALL_911]

Sure they may be good handling and fun, but so is the Viggen and Civic Si, which probably handles better and is faster.
Add to that that they are have more miles for the same cost as the Viggen, get worse gas mileage and aren't as practical, is there any reason to get the E36 over the Viggen (other than if you love  BMW's or don't like Saabs)? No.

I'm refraining from flaming you, but it's getting harder and harder with every post.

I picked the E36. If you don't like it, don't pick it. End of story. Goddamn.

[Cookie Monster]

I'm refraining from flaming you, but it's getting harder and harder with every post.

I picked the E36. If you don't like it, don't pick it. End of story. Goddamn.

You still don't provide any reason why you'd pick the E36 over the other two despite its shortcomings, other than the fact that you are blindly in love with it.

[dinkeldorf]

DRAT: these are the foursomes I was expecting.

[CALL_911]

You still don't provide any reason why you'd pick the E36 over the other two despite its shortcomings, other than the fact that you are blindly in love with it.

You know what? I do like it, and I justified why earlier. You continue to be an idiot and insist that I'm picking it because of that propeller badge. If it makes you happy, I'll take an Integra Type-R. 

[CALL_911]

BTW, I don't think the Viggen would be much faster. That, and how would you know anything about the gas mileage?