Mercedes SL Black Series

[Raza]

I don't know anything of this "hobby" you speak of.
I do know that this is a car enthusiast forum, yet you're trying to tell me you don't have to justify to me why you won't even take your awesome sports car out for a little exercise so you can do what you seemed to express a little bit of interest in when you said:

but I guess that's all part of your fake enthusiasum. You want to talk about idiocy? Idiocy is owning a car that is so above your means that you are scared to actually drive it. You have irrational fears of what could happen at a little autocross eveent, which is actually vastly safer than any drive on a public road.

Above my means?

Go fuck yourself.  I'm not used to the car yet.  I don't need to do anything with my car to please you.  You're just an insufferable asshole on an internet forum. 

Next time I won't be enthusiastic in case the Great Asswipe of CarSPIN comes to tell me what to do with any aspect of my life.  You want to see a Boxster autocrossed so badly?  Go buy your own.  Until then, I'll continue to drive my car the way I want when I can.  Hell, I don't even live with the car 9 months out of the year, and you tell me what to do with my car? 

[nickdrinkwater]

I wouldn't autocross a Boxster

[ChrisV]

I wouldn't autocross a Boxster

Why not? They are EXCELLENT autocross cars.



And I've broken-in two new cars at autocross. It's good for them, especially if they are enthusist cars.

[nickdrinkwater]

Why not? They are EXCELLENT autocross cars.

[img]http://www.968.net/events/images/20001007rad_autocross_boxsters_600.jpg/img]

And I've broken-in two new cars at autocross. It's good for them, especially if they are enthusist cars.

Maybe if it's someone else's Boxster.  Not if it's mine!

[Eye of the Tiger]

Above my means?

Go fuck yourself.  I'm not used to the car yet.  I don't need to do anything with my car to please you.  You're just an insufferable asshole on an internet forum. 

Next time I won't be enthusiastic in case the Great Asswipe of CarSPIN comes to tell me what to do with any aspect of my life.  You want to see a Boxster autocrossed so badly?  Go buy your own.  Until then, I'll continue to drive my car the way I want when I can.  Hell, I don't even live with the car 9 months out of the year, and you tell me what to do with my car? 

Oh yeah, I'm the Great Carspin Asswipe. I should go fuck myself because I'm on a car enthusiast forum and I'd like to see you have a little fun with your car.

[ifcar]

NACar, don't tell other people how to drive.
Raza, calm down.

[Eye of the Tiger]

NACar, don't tell other people how to drive.
Raza, calm down.

Absolutely not. I will not stop trying to spread car enthusiasum. You should autocross your minivan, Iffy.

[ifcar]

Absolutely not. I will not stop trying to spread car enthusiasum. You should autocross your minivan, Iffy.

It would probably be more fun doing it in a van than a Boxster, but the Sedona doesn't like to change direction.

[JYODER240]

Maybe if it's someone else's Boxster.  Not if it's mine!

What could possibly happen?

[Eye of the Tiger]

What could possibly happen?

The wheels will fall off, the engine will asplode and you will fly off track into a ditch and die in a firey crash!
No. Actually, the worst thing I have ever seen at an autocross was someone driving way off course and straight into a curb. They had already pushed their car way beyond its limits, and the limits of the course. Things like that are a very rare occurance. IIRC, there was not significant damage to the car, and he was able to continue driving it.
The worst thing that has ever happened to a car of mine was I took a cone into my wheel well and the plastic liner got torn to shreds, but it was already hanging down and missing half of the fasteners - not really a big deal. Actually, I was thankful for the free weight reduction.

If you're scared off by that, you shouldn't ever touch a public road, because far worse things can happen to you and your car. The only stupid thing is that your insurnace will cover it on public roads, but they won't touch you if something happens in any kind of competitive event. if you autocross, it's best never to let them know what you're up to.

[nickdrinkwater]

I think I misundestood auto crossing.  For some reason I pictured it as some sort of rallying.

I would take my car on a track, but probably not if it was a new car I'd only driven for 3 months and done 1,500 mi in.

I think at the end of the day one should respect an individual's preference to do or not do as they they wish with their car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think I misundestood auto crossing.  For some reason I pictured it as some sort of rallying.

I would take my car on a track, but probably not if it was a new car I'd only driven for 3 months and done 1,500 mi in.

I think at the end of the day one should respect an individual's preference to do or not do as they they wish with their car.

The term "Autocross" is used differently in America. It's a course set up with cones on a paved lot, usually speeds are under 65mph. American "Rallycross" is exactly the same, but on dirt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocross

I've had to do a lot of coaxing to get people to try autocrossing in real life, and over the internet just makes it harder - but when they try it, they love it. The hardest part is making them understand that it does not hurt the car - in fact, their ego will probably sustain the most damage at the end of the day.

[JYODER240]

The wheels will fall off, the engine will asplode and you will fly off track into a ditch and die in a firey crash!
No. Actually, the worst thing I have ever seen at an autocross was someone driving way off course and straight into a curb. They had already pushed their car way beyond its limits, and the limits of the course. Things like that are a very rare occurance. IIRC, there was not significant damage to the car, and he was able to continue driving it.
The worst thing that has ever happened to a car of mine was I took a cone into my wheel well and the plastic liner got torn to shreds, but it was already hanging down and missing half of the fasteners - not really a big deal. Actually, I was thankful for the free weight reduction.

If you're scared off by that, you shouldn't ever touch a public road, because far worse things can happen to you and your car. The only stupid thing is that your insurnace will cover it on public roads, but they won't touch you if something happens in any kind of competitive event. if you autocross, it's best never to let them know what you're up to.

I've taken my car autocrossing, I had tons of fun but it wore down my brakes and tires

[nickdrinkwater]

Looks like fun NACar!

[Submariner]

So...about that Merc...

[Raza]

Why not? They are EXCELLENT autocross cars.

And I've broken-in two new cars at autocross. It's good for them, especially if they are enthusist cars.

Yeah, but did you do your first autocross in a brand new 300bhp sports car that you didn't pay for?  A friend of mine is an experienced autocrosser, and even he's ripped off some bodywork by hitting a cone.  Insurance on my car is $3,000 a year, and I've never had an accident.  I'd love to replace a front bumper due to hitting a cone and make an insurance claim and see it rise back up to 5 grand a year. 

When I start racing, it'll be one something cheap, like a Starion or Conquest or 900S.  Something I don't really care about. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yeah, but did you do your first autocross in a brand new 300bhp sports car that you didn't pay for?  A friend of mine is an experienced autocrosser, and even he's ripped off some bodywork by hitting a cone.  Insurance on my car is $3,000 a year, and I've never had an accident.  I'd love to replace a front bumper due to hitting a cone and make an insurance claim and see it rise back up to 5 grand a year. 

When I start racing, it'll be one something cheap, like a Starion or Conquest or 900S.  Something I don't really care about. 

...or a Passat.

Oh, BTW, a cone is not going to rip off your bumper unless it's already falling off. The likihood of damaging your car is far higher driving it on public roads. You really don't have any excuse other than the car might be too much for you to handle for a first race, but nobody says you have to push it 100% your first time.

[The Pirate]

Yeah, but did you do your first autocross in a brand new 300bhp sports car that you didn't pay for?  A friend of mine is an experienced autocrosser, and even he's ripped off some bodywork by hitting a cone.  Insurance on my car is $3,000 a year, and I've never had an accident.  I'd love to replace a front bumper due to hitting a cone and make an insurance claim and see it rise back up to 5 grand a year. 

When I start racing, it'll be one something cheap, like a Starion or Conquest or 900S.  Something I don't really care about. 

I don't think insurance companies will pay out claims for an event that happened on a track (of which Autocross does fall in that category).  But along your line of thinking, that's even more significant; you'd have to pay for the damages out of pocket.

[Raza]

...or a Passat.

Oh, BTW, a cone is not going to rip off your bumper unless it's already falling off. The likihood of damaging your car is far higher driving it on public roads. You really don't have any excuse other than the car might be too much for you to handle for a first race, but nobody says you have to push it 100% your first time.

I care about my Passat, and the tires and brakes are getting long in the tooth; an autocross event would finish them off and cost me a grand a few months before I turn the car in.  That makes a lot of sense. 

And, like I said already, I've barely driven the Boxster.  The car isn't beyond my abilities, I'm simply not used to the car yet.  It's idiotic to jump in a car that's of a different platform and leagues beyond the speed of anything else I've ever owned and go balls to the wall the first time out?

You say I don't have to push 100%.  Then I am missing the point of racing.  I thought it was to push yourself and your car to the limit and see where you break.  I can drive slowly anywhere, why pay entrance fees?

[Cookie Monster]

So calling me Trep or worse than is the new CarSPIN hobby. 


I'm not ready to take the car out like that yet.  I've only done about 1500 miles in it, most of it fairly sedate.  You don't just hop in a 60,000 dollar car and put it in harm's way until you're sure of how it's going to work.  That kind of idiocy is the kind of thing I speak out against.  Besides, I'd rather be on a track. 

So here I am, being goaded into dealing with you and justifying what I don't need to.  You do have a talent. 

Harms way? What about a big, open parking lot will put your car in harms way? The brakes and tires will wear down after a while but those are easily replaceable.
You'd have to be a horrible driver to be able to damage your car while autoX'ing. You are the only car on track and can't get hit.

[Cookie Monster]

I care about my Passat, and the tires and brakes are getting long in the tooth; an autocross event would finish them off and cost me a grand a few months before I turn the car in.  That makes a lot of sense. 

And, like I said already, I've barely driven the Boxster.  The car isn't beyond my abilities, I'm simply not used to the car yet.  It's idiotic to jump in a car that's of a different platform and leagues beyond the speed of anything else I've ever owned and go balls to the wall the first time out?

You say I don't have to push 100%.  Then I am missing the point of racing.  I thought it was to push yourself and your car to the limit and see where you break.  I can drive slowly anywhere, why pay entrance fees?

The idea is to push your limits, not the cars limits...
You drive the fastest you are comfortable at, and then push a bit past that. You don't have to go balls to the wall.

And I've never seen a rubber cone rip anything off before.

[ChrisV]

Yeah, but did you do your first autocross in a brand new 300bhp sports car that you didn't pay for?  A friend of mine is an experienced autocrosser, and even he's ripped off some bodywork by hitting a cone.

He's doing it wrong. 25+ years and I've never ripped off any bodywork. I've put black marks on the paint, and I've completely KILLED cones and never hurt anything on the car. And that includes other people's Porsches.

Man, if I had a Boxster (or access to one), it'd be on the autocross track all the time.

[Raza]

He's doing it wrong. 25+ years and I've never ripped off any bodywork. I've put black marks on the paint, and I've completely KILLED cones and never hurt anything on the car. And that includes other people's Porsches.

Man, if I had a Boxster (or access to one), it'd be on the autocross track all the time.

Yeah, but I'm sure you wouldn't cut your teeth in one. 

If you guys don't get that I care about my car then I don't know what to tell you. 

[ChrisV]

I care about my Passat, and the tires and brakes are getting long in the tooth; an autocross event would finish them off and cost me a grand a few months before I turn the car in.  That makes a lot of sense. 

And, like I said already, I've barely driven the Boxster.  The car isn't beyond my abilities, I'm simply not used to the car yet.  It's idiotic to jump in a car that's of a different platform and leagues beyond the speed of anything else I've ever owned and go balls to the wall the first time out?

You say I don't have to push 100%.  Then I am missing the point of racing.  I thought it was to push yourself and your car to the limit and see where you break.  I can drive slowly anywhere, why pay entrance fees?

It's also about fun, pushing yourself doesn't mean overdriving a car, and it also can mean learning the limits in a safe setting. And getting beter as you go. I've been doing it for decades and can tell you that you need to get out there even more as a n00b than as an experienced driver.

It isn't just about winning; as as a novice, it should be about increasing your skill level and familiarity with your car in a controlled environment. The whole point of being a novice is LEARNING how to go fast, not just mashing the gas and generally being an idiot about it. Go slow to go fast. The point is improvement, not trying to win everything the first time out.

[Raza]

It's also about fun, pushing yourself doesn't mean overdriving a car, and it also can mean learning the limits in a safe setting. And getting beter as you go. I've been doing it for decades and can tell you that you need to get out there even more as a n00b than as an experienced driver.

It isn't just about winning; as as a novice, it should be about increasing your skill level and familiarity with your car in a controlled environment. The whole point of being a novice is LEARNING how to go fast, not just mashing the gas and generally being an idiot about it. Go slow to go fast. The point is improvement, not trying to win everything the first time out.

Being an idiot is jumping into the deep end with a $60,000 sports car that I've barely driven.   

It's not like I'm not going to race it.  I'm just not going to race it this minute because Nick wants me to.

[ChrisV]

Yeah, but I'm sure you wouldn't cut your teeth in one. 

If you guys don't get that I care about my car then I don't know what to tell you. 

We understand that you have an irrational fear about hurting it, and as someone with experience, I'll tell you you woudln't hurt it. And it's the best, safest way to learn the limits of your car and become comfortable with it.

[Raza]

Man, fuck you and this irrational fear bullshit.

This is the same group of people who believe the parents of some kid who died in an M5 crash should be hanged, and when I show caution about a performance car, you say I have irrational fears. 

[ChrisV]

I think you have me confused with someoen else vis a vis that M5 incident. 

I'm merely adressing your concerns about learning to autocross and the yes, irrational fear of the car getting hurt. It IS irrational in that it is extremely unlikely to happen. It's more likely to get hurt sitting in it's garage.

It's ok to have an opinion, but when the reasoning supporting that opinion is faulty, it's equally ok to question the reasoning and re-examine the opinion. You make the statments on an open forum, I'm responding to them from the postion of decades of direct experience. You want to discount that direct experience just to have a hissy fit, then that's your perogative. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to the track. We're just countering unsupported statements with statements from experience.

[Raza]

I think you have me confused with someoen else vis a vis that M5 incident. 

I'm merely adressing your concerns about learning to autocross and the yes, irrational fear of the car getting hurt. It IS irrational in that it is extremely unlikely to happen. It's more likely to get hurt sitting in it's garage.

It's ok to have an opinion, but when the reasoning supporting that opinion is faulty, it's equally ok to question the reasoning and re-examine the opinion. You make the statments on an open forum, I'm responding to them from the postion of decades of direct experience. You want to discount that direct experience just to have a hissy fit, then that's your perogative. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to the track. We're just countering unsupported statements with statements from experience.

I didn't mean just you, but the forum in general. 

I'm not trying to discount direct experience, yet you never answered me when I asked you if you'd race a powerful sports car that you've barely driven your first time out. 

[the Teuton]

If you have it, you might as well have fun with it.  Just don't do it stupidly, which is what it sounds like you're trying to avoid.