Gallardo Superlegerra Cancelled!

[NomisR]

Supercars don't depriciate like Hyundais. I think 360s are still going for what they cost new.

Ferarris are the one of the few brands that actually holds it's value or even appreciate in a short time.  Everything else actually depreciates.  Some more so than others.

I've seen 2 year old Gallardo going for almost half the value.. might be the maintainence that's killing the resale. 

[nickdrinkwater]

1. I have heard a GT-R on video. In comparison to Lamborghinis and Ferraris I have heard on video it sounds like a muted G35.

2. Looks may be subjective, but honestly, I think if we took a poll most people would say a Ferrari looks better than the GT-R. The GT-R is the WRX of supercars.

3. I am in agreement that most Ferrari drivers don't buy their cars to take to the track. That is my whole point. Yes the GT-R is highly capable, a great performance value, and comfy/practical as well...

But it's not a Porsche. It's not a Ferrari. It's not a Lamborghini. Yes those cars may not be as fast on the track but who cares. They are beautiful. They make beautiful noises. They have a special kind of presence on the road. That to me is worth the premium and performance loss from a GT-R.

If I wanted the most bang for the buck performance wise I would buy something like a '91 Eclipse GSX and build that up. The GT-R is a great feat and definitely a great car, but I don't think it's "perfect", and despite it's great performance if given the choice I would still go with something slower and more expensive.

I think the GT-R is more of a threat to Porsche than it is to the Italians.

[Raza]

Ferarris are the one of the few brands that actually holds it's value or even appreciate in a short time.  Everything else actually depreciates.  Some more so than others.

I've seen 2 year old Gallardo going for almost half the value.. might be the maintainence that's killing the resale. 

Some cars hold their value.

Some don't.

Try checking out prices for a 456.

[Tave]

I think the GT-R is more of a threat to Porsche than it is to the Italians.

Bingo.

But it's not a Porsche. It's not a Ferrari. It's not a Lamborghini. Yes those cars may not be as fast on the track but who cares. They are beautiful. They make beautiful noises. They have a special kind of presence on the road. That to me is worth the premium and performance loss from a GT-R.

Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?

[nickdrinkwater]

I don't know about the US market, but Porsche are at the top of the tree for sports car/GT sales in the UK market (and maybe the rest of the EU).

There will always be a portion of Porsche buyers who are concerned about image but I don't think I can believe that Porsche wouldn't be concerned about the GT-R.  At the very least it's a matter of pride.

[Raza]

Bingo.

Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?

Yeah, how many Nissans are on the road?

The GT-R is as much a threat as the Evo or STI. 

[NomisR]

Some cars hold their value.

Some don't.

Try checking out prices for a 456.

True, usually, the 2+2s depreciate really fast, but typically, the 2 seats holds it's value well.

[NomisR]

Bingo.

Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?

True, Porsches definately doesn't hold the same cachet as the Italians. 

[Tave]

Yeah, how many Nissans are on the road?

The GT-R is as much a threat as the Evo or STI. 

I guarantee Porsche management isn't being as blase about the GT-R as you.

Also, your analogy is flawed. The GT-R is much closer to a Carrera in content, price, and target market than an Evo or STi.

[Raza]

I guarantee Porsche management isn't being as blase about the GT-R as you.

Also, your analogy is flawed. The GT-R is much closer to a Carrera in content, price, and target market than an Evo or STi.

Of course the Porsche management is taking the Nissan more seriously than I am.  They're paid to.

Personally, I don't see who the target market of the GT-R is.  Sure, there will some early adopters who want the latest performance car, I just don't see longevity.  A lot of people who have 70 grand to spend on a car that isn't a large luxury car usually want the badge to come along with it.  And Nissan's badge isn't the one they want.  The old Skyline line is popular amongst people who generally can't afford it. 

[NomisR]

Of course the Porsche management is taking the Nissan more seriously than I am.  They're paid to.

Personally, I don't see who the target market of the GT-R is.  Sure, there will some early adopters who want the latest performance car, I just don't see longevity.  A lot of people who have 70 grand to spend on a car that isn't a large luxury car usually want the badge to come along with it.  And Nissan's badge isn't the one they want.  The old Skyline line is popular amongst people who generally can't afford it. 

Well, I think the new GTR will do the same thing to Supercars as the NSX did almost 20 years ago.  It's a good thing but how high can the bar actually go?  Again, the NSX died out..

Also, the GTR doesn't look as exotic as the NSX did.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Well, I think the new GTR will do the same thing to Supercars as the NSX did almost 20 years ago.  It's a good thing but how high can the bar actually go?  Again, the NSX died out..

Also, the GTR doesn't look as exotic as the NSX did.

+1

[Raza]

Well, I think the new GTR will do the same thing to Supercars as the NSX did almost 20 years ago.  It's a good thing but how high can the bar actually go?  Again, the NSX died out..

Also, the GTR doesn't look as exotic as the NSX did.

You mean putter out and die unceremoniously after 15 years?

The NSX shocked supercar manufacturers into making their cars more reliable.  If the GT-R shocks the supercar manufacturers into making their cars more computerized, uglier, and heavier, then I'll burn Nissan HQ to the ground.

[NomisR]

If the GT-R shocks the supercar manufacturers into making their cars more computerized, uglier, and heavier, then I'll burn Nissan HQ to the ground.

It's not like this isn't already happening. 

[Tave]

It's not like this isn't already happening. 

No, It's all the GT-R's fault!

Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.

Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.

[Galaxy]

No, It's all the GT-R's fault!

Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.

Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.

Do you post at Corvette and Porsche forums?   

[Lebowski]

Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?

And how many GT-R units is Nissan targeting, 3,500?  Porsche sells about 100k units a year.  Those 3500 units will get absorbed into the market so easily, unless Nissan plans to seriously increase production it's not going to have much if any impact on Porsche sales.

[sportyaccordy]

No, It's all the GT-R's fault!

Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.

Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.

Why does everyone have to like this car?

I haven't seen one on the road, but from photographs I find it ugly.

It is incredibly heavy. People are going bonkers about it's performance... it's clearly underrated from the factory; I give Nissan credit for a clever marketing ploy. If it had been officially rated at the 550 or so HP it creates at the crank perhaps it wouldn't have been so impressive. Plus, of course, GM makes the same power in a motor I bet isn't much bigger or heavier (and definitely nowhere near as complex) as the VH37.

It brings no new technology to the table. All the stuff in this car works very well together, but beyond the rear mounted transaxle (which was made only to help offset the weight of the already overly heavy front end). Even the motor is simplified... VVT on the intake only, and stainless steel turbos... no variable vane technology or ceramic turbines, and they're integrated with the exhaust manifolds so upgrades will be a major investment.

So I'm sorry but while its performance and value is impressive I personally am not excited about the GT-R. Yes it is the fastest car on the road/track but I would still rather have nearly any of its competitors over it. Wake me up when someone makes a car rivaling the GT-R's performance w/unarguably beautiful styling, a simple N/A motor and RWD (with some kind of safety management of course). Let's see how the GT-R fares against the GT2 and F430 Scuderia (though it is impressive that things have to go that far).

Meh.

[Lebowski]

Wait, why are we talking about the GTR in this thread again?

[Tave]

Why does everyone have to like this car?

Everyone doesn't. I just want to stop hearing bullshit criticism that directly contradicts every review that has been released.

Notice I haven't said a peep about the car's styling. I think it looks cool, but I respect that others don't.

I haven't seen one on the road, but from photographs I find it ugly.

It is incredibly heavy. People are going bonkers about it's performance... it's clearly underrated from the factory; I give Nissan credit for a clever marketing ploy. If it had been officially rated at the 550 or so HP it creates at the crank perhaps it wouldn't have been so impressive.

565 posted a dyno graph in one of these threads that indicates it's not as underrated as we previously thought.

Plus, of course, GM makes the same power in a motor I bet isn't much bigger or heavier (and definitely nowhere near as complex) as the VH37.

It brings no new technology to the table. All the stuff in this car works very well together, but beyond the rear mounted transaxle (which was made only to help offset the weight of the already overly heavy front end). Even the motor is simplified... VVT on the intake only, and stainless steel turbos... no variable vane technology or ceramic turbines, and they're integrated with the exhaust manifolds so upgrades will be a major investment.

So I'm sorry but while its performance and value is impressive I personally am not excited about the GT-R. Yes it is the fastest car on the road/track but I would still rather have nearly any of its competitors over it. Wake me up when someone makes a car rivaling the GT-R's performance w/unarguably beautiful styling, a simple N/A motor and RWD (with some kind of safety management of course). Let's see how the GT-R fares against the GT2 and F430 Scuderia (though it is impressive that things have to go that far).

Meh.

To each their own. There's no way I'd take a 997 Turbo over it, and I've been in love with the 997 Turbo since its first review.

[Raza]

Wait, why are we talking about the GTR in this thread again?

Why?

Was the mind blowing performance of the 70K GT-R behind this.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

[Lebowski]

Yes, I understand that on page 1.  But that comment was presumably a joke (if not it's an absurd comment), and there are already 300 GT-R threads.

[nickdrinkwater]

No, It's all the GT-R's fault!

Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.

Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.

Good post.