This Forum

[dazzleman]

I don't want to comment on what happened, because the points have been made, but I'd like to look at this post in a general context:


You're right. This forum will get awfully boring if everyone takes everything to heart.

On the other hand, most of our members saw what happened on the C&D boards when people could say anything they want and get away with it. We came here, not only because we were tired of listening to it, but also because we were tired of getting involved. I know I'm not the only person who acted differently, or wrote differently, in that environment. We came here looking for a fresh start.

We're willing to close a thread every now and then, even at the expense of full "freedom of speech," because if we don't, all conversation will start to suffer. Maybe the thread in question was out of line, maybe not. In the end, I leave it up to the moderators, because I trust them to keep what happened at C&D from happening here. You can't make an omlette...

I think you make a good point, Tave.  The reason most of us left C&D and came here is because the 'anything goes' mentality there caused the whole forum to degenerate.

Even though this is an internet forum where most of the members will never meet each other, it is in a sense a community and every community has to have certain standards of behavior if it is to remain a desirable place to be.  Many people don't seem to realize the cost of the 'anything goes' mentality, and not ironically, it's many of the same people who place no value on law enforcement in general.

No enforcement mechanism is perfect, but that doesn't mean that it should totally be abandoned.  That's the logic mistake that many people make.  That goes for law enforcement in general, and this forum in particular.

I think we have good moderators and a good administrator here who have kept this site a friendly place to be, in contrast to many other internet sites.  We should appreciate and support them.

[JYODER240]

Well said, Tave.

[Byteme]

We're willing to close a thread every now and then, even at the expense of full "freedom of speech," because if we don't, all conversation will start to suffer. Maybe the thread in question was out of line, maybe not. In the end, I leave it up to the moderators, because I trust them to keep what happened at C&D from happening here. You can't make an omlette...

It's probably worth remembering that this is a privately operated site.  The participants (us)are here as guests of the owners.  They have the right to set the rules and policies under which we are allowed to participate.  This isn't Speaker's Corner in London where anybody can get up and say whatever they like with no consequences.

[S204STi]

It's probably worth remembering that this is a privately operated site.  The participants (us)are here as guests of the owners.  They have the right to set the rules and policies under which we are allowed to participate.  This isn't Speaker's Corner in London where anybody can get up and say whatever they like with no consequences.

Bingo.  All of the arguments about censorship and freedom of speech are moot on a private webpage.

[J86]

Bingo.  All of the arguments about censorship and freedom of speech are moot on a private webpage.

Yeah, but the admin hasn't made  a rule about bitching about it yet.

[J86]

edit in a smile...

""

[S204STi]

That leaves us then with the fact that whether or not someone's warped perspective defines a given behavior as bashing or not, the owner or the representatives of the owner have the final say in the matter. And like Catman said, anyone who can't see eye to eye with them (or at least hold their tongue if not) should find another private webpage that supports them.

[dazzleman]

That leaves us then with the fact that whether or not someone's warped perspective defines a given behavior as bashing or not, the owner or the representatives of the owner have the final say in the matter. And like Catman said, anyone who can't see eye to eye with them (or at least hold their tongue if not) should find another private webpage that supports them.

A forum is like a high school.  If somebody in authority isn't controlling it to some degree, the most aggressive and loudest element will, and ruin the experience for everybody else.  Ditto for law enforcement in general, as well as military power for that matter.

[CALL_911]

You can't make an omlette...

Actually, I can make a pretty mean omelette.

[Raza]

Bingo.  All of the arguments about censorship and freedom of speech are moot on a private webpage.

Right; but be aware that as an internet page, if freedoms are too restricted, people will leave.  This isn't Soviet Russia that people are stuck here. 

[Raza]

A forum is like a high school.  If somebody in authority isn't controlling it to some degree, the most aggressive and loudest element will, and ruin the experience for everybody else.  Ditto for law enforcement in general, as well as military power for that matter.

Of course you're in favor of stringent control.

[dazzleman]

Right; but be aware that as an internet page, if freedoms are too restricted, people will leave.  This isn't Soviet Russia that people are stuck here. 

With the right amount of controls, only troublemakers will leave, which is a good thing.

With no controls, good people leave.

[dazzleman]

Of course you're in favor of stringent control.

You got that right, buddy.

[NomisR]

You got that right, buddy.

It's all about public caning! 

[dazzleman]

It's all about public caning! 

I support public caning wholeheartedly.....

[FoMoJo]

You're making perfect sense. I can understand things being said in the heat of the moment. That's one of the reasons that I didn't jump on Rohan's outburst like some others have (not because I'm a LEO defending another LEO, contrary to popular belief). I strongly suspect that Randy read the thread, got himself worked up, and shotgunned out some comments that were probably later viewed with a bit of regret. Raza got himslef a bit worked up and confrontational early on in that thread too, but we later got into a good mature debate. I didn't hold his early confrontational tone against him either.

I'm 32 and have been a cop for 10 years now. I know that I have a different perception of alot of things because of differences in age, experience, and personal bias. But, I majorly believe in mutual respect and treating people like you'd want to be treated yourself...even here on the impersonal internet. Why others can't apply that very simple rule...something that my parents taught me around the time I learned to walk...I cannot understand.

But still you must remember what it was like when you were 17 or 19 or 21 or 25 .

I think that anyone in this age bracket is exploring a lot of bounderies and, maybe, bouncing themselves off a few preconceived notions just to test it and themselves.  All in all, a good thing.  Therefore, those with more life experience need to set an example, as well as cut a bit of slack, when interacting with those who have experienced less of life.

[TBR]

I must be missing something, or maybe some posts were deleted, but the only person really out of line in that thread was Rohan. He physically threatened somebody with very little provocation, that seems worthy of a permanent ban if you ask me.

Police bashing is making derogatory remarks about cops in general, it was pretty clear that the negative posts were about the Riverside police in particular who, in reference to the article, deserved it (whether the article was biased or not, I am not going to argue, but the other side never presented an alternate POV).

[hounddog]

To be honest, this is why I quit posting in this forum for the most part.  I got tired of police officers being grouped together and being called; ignorant, lazy, uneducated, shiftless, stupid, and a myriad of other names without any (or much) challenge by the modding team.

Yet, it is interesting that it took a fit of frustration, anger, and rule breaking by a police officer, to warrant the attention of this sites "police."

I would go so far as to label that 'Irony.'

Understand, this is not an intentional slam against all of, or any of the moderators in any way.  Just an observation/thought I had while reading this thread!

[Cookie Monster]

To be honest, this is why I quit posting in this forum for the most part.  I got tired of police officers being grouped together and being called; ignorant, lazy, uneducated, shiftless, stupid, and a myriad of other names without any (or much) challenge by the modding team.

Yet, it is interesting that it took a fit of frustration, anger, and rule breaking by a police officer, to warrant the attention of this sites "police."

I would go so far as to label that 'Irony.'

Understand, this is not an intentional slam against all of, or any of the moderators in any way.  Just an observation/thought I had while reading this thread!

Um, what don't you guys get about the fact that those insults were only against the Riverside police, who, as TBR said, deserved what they got (as per the article)?
Nick even said that he had nothing against police officers in general, just those in the article. Is that so hard to understand?

[hounddog]

One other thing:
Almost every police officer has tried to make eloquent arguments, so far as he can, regarding laws, traffic enforcement, arrests, how we drive, why we drive, etc., only to have some here on this board go as far out of their way as they could to make us look "wrong." 

Only a small handful here have ever attempted to understand our debate points, or even put themselves in our shoes.  Most of the time we are called "nazi", or told we are selling propaganda, or even told we are just plain stupid and uneducated or on the take.

It is very difficult to remain articulate in the face of such ignorance topic after topic. 

[hounddog]

Um, what don't you guys get about the fact that those insults were only against the Riverside police, who, as TBR said, deserved what they got (as per the article)?
Nick even said that he had nothing against police officers in general, just those in the article. Is that so hard to understand?

You assume a great deal in my post. 

[Cookie Monster]

You assume a great deal in my post. 

Care to explain?
It seemed really obvious (to me at least) that Nick wasn't talking about police officers in general.

[hounddog]

Care to explain?
It seemed really obvious (to me at least) that Nick wasn't talking about police officers in general.

I have no intention of explaining further.  I just am not feeling like I need to.

[Cookie Monster]

I have no intention of explaining further.  I just am not feeling like I need to.

Whatever, I've assumed nothing.
You said that the police officers were being grouped up. In fact, that was exactly what was not happening in that thread, yet you apparently missed it.

[hounddog]

Read: forum

[Soup DeVille]

Look, it's only natural to take offense when somebody ridicules the job you're doing: especially when it's something you take pride in and doubly so when it's something as all-encompassing as police work.

And it's all too easy of a mistake to make to lump all of the people that have any criticism of that together as one group.

Of course the opposite is true too: that's it's all too easy to see police officers as a great undifferentiated mass, as if they were all cut from the same cloth and of the same mindset.

I think that when approaching these sorts of topics on this board we need to make a conscious effort to seperate the individual factors and not treat either side as a stereotype.

[hounddog]

Look, it's only natural to take offense when somebody ridicules the job you're doing:

No.   I spelled out what I think is ignorant behavior which is offensive, and pretty clearly I might add. 

Everyone thinks they know how to be police officers because they have watched Miami Vice or old reruns of TJ Hooker, when in fact, only the police officers here have any idea what our job even entails.  None of you have the slightest idea how to do even our most basic and mundane tasks, the statutory requirements, the liability issues, the training issues, or even the basic certification processes required by law to do those tasks.
 
Yet, you are all Jonny on the Spot with advice on how to run a police department. 
It gets old, and that is one of the three reasons I do not come to this forum much anymore.

[Soup DeVille]

"And it's all too easy of a mistake to make to lump all of the people that have any criticism of that together as one group"

Nevermind.

[280Z Turbo]

It gets old, and that is one of the three reasons I do not come to this forum much anymore.

Okay, so it's:

1.) Police bashing
2.) People have different opinions than me which are stupid and immature
3.) People tell me I'm wrong when I'm actually right

[hounddog]

"And it's all too easy of a mistake to make to lump all of the people that have any criticism of that together as one group"

Nevermind.

I do lump you into my groups, as a general laborer.  Whatever that means, exactly! 

You make a good point, I still stand with my post as a general statement.