Road and Track takes a beating

[NomisR]

I am I the only one who would take a Boxster S Elise over a GTR any day of the week?

I haven't driven the GTR so I wouldn't know but someone on ET did say he has driven it and although it's crazy fast, it wasn't "fun" and I can actually see where he's coming from with that.  But then again, you have to take it with a grain of salt since it's someone with an Elise and Elan..

[sportyaccordy]

I haven't driven the GTR so I wouldn't know but someone on ET did say he has driven it and although it's crazy fast, it wasn't "fun" and I can actually see where he's coming from with that.  But then again, you have to take it with a grain of salt since it's someone with an Elise and Elan..

If anything his cars only further validate his synopsis

[Tave]

I haven't driven the GTR so I wouldn't know but someone on ET did say he has driven it and although it's crazy fast, it wasn't "fun" and I can actually see where he's coming from with that.  But then again, you have to take it with a grain of salt since it's someone with an Elise and Elan..

EVERY professional review that I've seen says it's fun to drive.

[NomisR]

EVERY professional review that I've seen says it's fun to drive.

When on other forums, especially those of which seem to have a lower median age than this one, I have been getting chastised for merely suggesting that the new Nissan GT-R doesn't give me a woody. They bite my head off (despite the fact that I have driven it and they have not), when I offer that I found the GT-R not really all that fun to drive. They start spouting off magazine racing numbers and how it beat this car or that car and that all the magazines are loving it, yadda, yadda, yadda. I try to argue that faster does not equal better or more fun to drive, but I just get flamed.

The reasoning for my disappointment is that the car is just too capable to be able to use properly. Sure, the acceleration is fun, for about 5 seconds, then you have to jam on the brakes (and other cars offer more drama when accelerating), but the reality is that the sweet spot at which the car is fun is barely, if at all, approachable on the road. Below warp speed the car is dare I say, boring.
I have felt the same about other really fast modern cars too, but at least with some of the high end cars they look great and sound good too, and they can be a status symbol also, if you are into that kind of thing.

Sure you can take it to the track, but I think you have to be nuts to drive that fast without a cage and other proper safety equipment, just because you are on the track does not mean you are immune to a big wreck that can kill you

Nissan may have raised the bar, but IMO they also raised the fun bar too, making it harder to get to.

Anyhow, I found this article on www.lateralg.org and thought it hit the nail on the head. Not trying to turn this into a GT-R discussion, but that car to me is the poster child for this issue.
Enjoy

[CALL_911]

I am I the only one who would take a Boxster S over a GTR any day of the week?

No. Count me in that party.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

In all fairness he did say PROFESSIONAL review. I'd expect to see something from one of the dozens of major rags from any other country.

[Raza]

Title should read 911 Turbo and Z06 take a beating.

Yeah, but according to you, the Micra is better than anything else ever made.

[Sigma Projects]

No. Count me in that party.

really?? I guess whatever floats your boat, but I've always found the boxters to be ugly as sin. That's just my opion, same with the carrera vert, but I find all of the other porsches really attractive, I even like the looks of the old 914 over the boxter, hmm I actually want one of those 914s the more I think about it 

[NomisR]

In all fairness he did say PROFESSIONAL review. I'd expect to see something from one of the dozens of major rags from any other country.

Yeah I know, I'm just posting what he said. 

I'm not going to expect anything but great reviews from the major rags anyways because all they care about are #s

[Raza]

really?? I guess whatever floats your boat, but I've always found the boxSters to be ugly as sin. That's just my opion, same with the carrera vert, but I find all of the other porsches really attractive, I even like the looks of the old 914 over the boxSter, hmm I actually want one of those 914s the more I think about it 

Ugly as sin? 

You sir, need to have your eyes removed.  You no longer deserve them. 

[Tave]

I think this is the most important part of his critique:

I have felt the same about other really fast modern cars too, but at least with some of the high end cars they look great and sound good too

So really, the GTR isn't "less fun" than any of it's competitors. It simply doesn't look or sound as good, which is fine: that's a legitimate point.

I don't understand, was he expecting Nissan to release a Miata or S2000 competitor?


And I don't get this:

and other cars offer more drama when accelerating

What is he talking about--more wheelspin? Less stability? A more violent "seat of his pants" feeling? Personally, I kind of like it when my car doesn't fling me off the road at WOT, but he's welcome to his preferences.

[NomisR]

I think in a way, it's like saying, taking the best lines on a track isn't the most fun even though it may be the fastest.  You want to put the car in a nice controlled drift around the corners with all the G Force and screaming tires to bring out the child in you. 

[Tave]

I think in a way, it's like saying, taking the best lines on a track isn't the most fun even though it may be the fastest.  You want to put the car in a nice controlled drift around the corners with all the G Force and screaming tires to bring out the child in you. 

True, but that same point would apply to a Z06 and a Miata.



Every review I've read has had a section that says something like "So the GTR is fast, but is it fun? Do those lap times count for anything off the track?" The answer, so far, is always "YES!" even from the European rags.

It sounds like an agile, fast car with beautiful handling and great road manners. I'm not grouping you into this, but it seems like some people have only looked at spec sheets and decided for themselves that the car isn't involving, even though the people driving it say otherwise.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I can't really argue with a person who has little passion for vehicles. I'm no old timer, but I've been following this industry my entire life, and I've seen cars come and go. There will always be something faster, or cheaper. The only thing this means is that we'll see faster cars than the GT-R in this price range within the next few years, and we'll see cars approaching the GT-R's performance for a bit less money. I wouldn't be surprised if the base C7 will be a 450 hp car with an equal power to weight ratio as the Nissan. The next EVO will probably have 350 hp and a 3100 pound curb weight for $30,000.

I've heard lots of praise for the Nissan, but you're the very first person I've heard call it a perfect car that will never be equalled that simultaneously managed to diminish their interest in the car industry. Sorry for being blunt, but it's really short sighted. Someone else can come along with a 600 hp awd car that has all sorts of fancy computers and beat the pants off of the Nissan, it's not like they broke the laws of physics.

Well said!

[Sigma Projects]

Ugly as sin? 

You sir, need to have your eyes removed.  You no longer deserve them. 

I see them every day here in OC and I find them ugly, ok, I was a bit harsh to say ugly as sin, but I find them being one of the ugliest roadsters on the market. And people saying they rather have a boxster s over the GT-R? The front of the Boxster is good, but I just find the sides and the back to be extremely plain and boring, can't find anything to like about the back. I just can't see myself paying 55K+ for a Porsche (that i dont' even like the looks of) that sure is great around the track, but other 55K cars can probably beat it. Or some kid in his "suped" up ricer can beat me on a highway pull? Yea I understand that the Porsche will flat out kill any ricer on a track, but when spending 55K I feel the car should not have to bow down in any regards to some kid who slapped on a turbo on his 4banger.

[Raza]

I see them every day here in OC and I find them ugly, ok, I was a bit harsh to say ugly as sin, but I find them being one of the ugliest roadsters on the market. And people saying they rather have a boxster s over the GT-R? The front of the Boxster is good, but I just find the sides and the back to be extremely plain and boring, can't find anything to like about the back. I just can't see myself paying 55K+ for a Porsche (that i dont' even like the looks of) that sure is great around the track, but other 55K cars can probably beat it. Or some kid in his "suped" up ricer can beat me on a highway pull? Yea I understand that the Porsche will flat out kill any ricer on a track, but when spending 55K I feel the car should not have to bow down in any regards to some kid who slapped on a turbo on his 4banger.

Do you want to race, then?  Because I've yet to be beaten out in my Box.  Granted, I haven't gone head to head with a Corvette yet, but you're vastly underestimating the Boxster. 

[NomisR]

True, but that same point would apply to a Z06 and a Miata.



Every review I've read has had a section that says something like "So the GTR is fast, but is it fun? Do those lap times count for anything off the track?" The answer, so far, is always "YES!" even from the European rags.

It sounds like an agile, fast car with beautiful handling and great road manners. I'm not grouping you into this, but it seems like some people have only looked at spec sheets and decided for themselves that the car isn't involving, even though the people driving it say otherwise.

Well, another thing I think is about the electronic nannies, eg. stability control, AWD, etc etc sometimes takes out the raw excitement of just you and the car.  I personally prefers a car w/o any of those, I'd take a Zonda over an Enzo because I think it would be more fun to drive.. and it actually looks really bad ass too.

Oh and yes, it does apply to Z06 and Miata in some ways.  Personally, I think Miatas are really fun.  I almost considered getting an used Miata as a daily driver and it could be a cheap fun track car too.  At least with that, I don't have to worry about running into the dirt.  That's what scares me.

[Tave]

True enough. I myself prefer cars without ABS.


I'll be interested to read more reviews about this car. I bet we will be able to tell if the tech helps or gets in the way once we have enough time and opinions.

The one thing I'll say is this: Nissan sure did their homework. I got sick of hearing about the GTR in pre-production; it seemed like it took forever to reach its release date. How many videos were there of camoed mules lapping the 'Ring? Man there were tons. I really wanted to tell Nissan, "Put up or shut up. Enough already. Give me something tangible or get off the pot.

Well, their commitment is paying huge dividends, and I hope it continues. They worked hard and they deserve it.



That's why I'm getting excited about the Camaro. GM could be using its time to give us something really special.

[Sigma Projects]

Do you want to race, then?  Because I've yet to be beaten out in my Box.  Granted, I haven't gone head to head with a Corvette yet, but you're vastly underestimating the Boxster. 

that would be fun, but my car is in the shop (I want it back ), but I have a feeling that my friend's turbo civic (I know, don't laugh) could possibly keep up with you on the freeway. Boxster S's are not slow by any means, but they're definitely not the fastest.

[NomisR]

True enough. I myself prefer cars without ABS.


I'll be interested to read more reviews about this car. I bet we will be able to tell if the tech helps or gets in the way once we have enough time and opinions.

The one thing I'll say is this: Nissan sure did their homework. I got sick of hearing about the GTR in pre-production; it seemed like it took forever to reach its release date. How many videos were there of camoed mules lapping the 'Ring? Man there were tons. I really wanted to tell Nissan, "Put up or shut up. Enough already. Give me something tangible or get off the pot.

Well, their commitment is paying huge dividends, and I hope it continues. They worked hard and they deserve it.



That's why I'm getting excited about the Camaro. GM could be using its time to give us something really special.

Well, the thing is, i'm sure the tech helps, helps a lot.  And it seems from the reviews, it's not intrusive.  Either that, or it makes them look SOOOOOO GOOD, that they don't care.  I'm thinking 2nd part has a lot to do with it.

[Sigma Projects]

i was just really suprised when they showed how the drivetrain was layed out with the transmission integrated with the diff in the back. Has anyone else don that before? Just seems genius.

[Soup DeVille]

i was just really suprised when they showed how the drivetrain was layed out with the transmission integrated with the diff in the back. Has anyone else don that before? Just seems genius.

Not  with a front engine AWD car I don't think, but it's relatively common for RWD sports cars to do that.

[Sigma Projects]

Really? Which ones, I wasn't aware it was common. If you mean MR cars, then yea I understand, but do you mean FR cars that have the transmission in the back?

[CALL_911]

The Corvette is a shit car anyhow.

First the VQ obliterating the N54, then the K-series being a vastly superior engine to any German 4-banger ever made, now this?

I'm confused, are you misinformed, or really that dumb?

[Tave]

Well, the thing is, i'm sure the tech helps, helps a lot.  And it seems from the reviews, it's not intrusive.  Either that, or it makes them look SOOOOOO GOOD, that they don't care.  I'm thinking 2nd part has a lot to do with it.

Right, I was speaking more towards your point. I know it "helps," the question is whether or not it helps from an enthusiast's perspective. I think time will tell.

Either that, or you're right about #2

[Soup DeVille]

Really? Which ones, I wasn't aware it was common. If you mean MR cars, then yea I understand, but do you mean FR cars that have the transmission in the back?

The C5 and C6 Corvette does for one, and the Porsche 928 did, and even as far back as the "real" Bugattis, which all had rear mounted transaxles.

And yes, I mean front engined cars with the transaxle in the back.

But I think the GTR is the first AWD front engined car to do that.

[sportyaccordy]

i was just really suprised when they showed how the drivetrain was layed out with the transmission integrated with the diff in the back. Has anyone else don that before? Just seems genius.

If the car had been well balanced from jump street they wouldn't have had to take such drastic measures...

[MX793]

The C5 and C6 Corvette does for one, and the Porsche 928 did, and even as far back as the "real" Bugattis, which all had rear mounted transaxles.

And yes, I mean front engined cars with the transaxle in the back.

But I think the GTR is the first AWD front engined car to do that.

I believe Ferrari has been doing it with their front engine cars (550/575, 456 and 599) as well.

[Soup DeVille]

I believe Ferrari has been doing it with their front engine cars (550/575, 456 and 599) as well.

Yes, they have.

[Sigma Projects]

If the car had been well balanced from jump street they wouldn't have had to take such drastic measures...

I don't know many front engine AWD vehicles that have a weight ratio like the GTR does, isn't it pretty difficult to make a front engine AWD car to be less front heavy?

MX793, Soup DeVille: Oh, I didn't know that. I think I prefer the design, I would assume it eliminates some problems