E39 vs. E60: Let the Bimmer games begin

[the Teuton]

I have driven an E46, and it has similar steering to the E39, if not exactly the same. The E60's steering is lighter, but hardly any number.

The E46's steering is pretty heavy, at least compared to the newer BMWs.  The E36 feels downright sporty.  The E90 is a fair amount lighter than either, and the E60 feels almost weightless by comparison. 

As for the E65, it has no more feeling at regular speeds than your average full-sized landyacht.  It's pretty light.

[omicron]

Simply put, the E39 5-series is one of my favourite cars but the E60 is not.

[cawimmer430]

How about just an "E"? 

[Submariner]

Yes, I have to troll with Wimmer here.  the W-211 is the way to go. 

Back on topic.  A while back I was looking between a 6-speed 5er and my 7.  It was an incredibly tough decision.  Both drove well and were just as comfortable.  I would have gone with the 5er, but I couldn't find a low mileage, well maintained 6-speed.  The price difference between the auto 5 and 7 wasn't too great, so I went with the 7.

[cawimmer430]

Yes, I have to troll with Wimmer here.  the W-211 is the way to go. 

Benz fo life homie! 

[sportyaccordy]

Yes, I have to troll with Wimmer here.  the W-211 is the way to go. 

Back on topic.  A while back I was looking between a 6-speed 5er and my 7.  It was an incredibly tough decision.  Both drove well and were just as comfortable.  I would have gone with the 5er, but I couldn't find a low mileage, well maintained 6-speed.  The price difference between the auto 5 and 7 wasn't too great, so I went with the 7.

Should have gone with the 5

[Submariner]

Should have gone with the 5

The 7 is a better long haul cruiser, and I prefer it's looks (and interior room) to the 5.

[ChrisV]

The 7 is a better long haul cruiser, and I prefer it's looks (and interior room) to the 5.

Same here. Interiorwise, they are pretty much identical in looks (they use the same instrument cluster, for example), but the 7 has more room, which is nice when I'm the one carrying the passengers around. And I prefer the looks of the E38 to the E39. For the money, it was the better choice for me.

And yes, for those of us that are used to sports cars and race cars, rather than cruising to the nearest donut shop, feedback is important. I like the more immediate connection between man and machine of the older siblings. To be able to get that in a full size luxury/sport sedan is a distinct benefit.

[850CSi]

The E46's steering is pretty heavy, at least compared to the newer BMWs.  The E36 feels downright sporty.  The E90 is a fair amount lighter than either, and the E60 feels almost weightless by comparison. 

As for the E65, it has no more feeling at regular speeds than your average full-sized landyacht.  It's pretty light.

It's been a while since I drove an E39, but that's not what I remember...

e39>e60

[rohan]

e39>e60

If you like old looking cars with less power not as good ride and less handling then yah it's >e60

[rohan]

By the way I got 30.1 going to Charlevoix the last time I went and back with the 4.4 which I thought was pretty good but I didin't go over 75 most of the way and feathered the pedal going up and down hills.

[Submariner]

If you like old looking cars with less power not as good ride and less handling then yah it's >e60

Or if you like better looking cars with a similar ride/handling compromise and a more connected driving experience than yeah it's >e60. 

The argument can be made either way.

[rohan]

Better looking aint what it is- it looks fuddyduddy and old.  Not saying the new one couldn't stand to be loosened up a little but at least it don't look like a sad old man.  And they may be similar in handling but their not even close in ride and the e60 handles better.  It's jutst that the sad old frumpy man is smaller and naturally more nimble in some ways but the suspension on the e60 is superior.

[CALL_911]

Better looking aint what it is- it looks fuddyduddy and old.  Not saying the new one couldn't stand to be loosened up a little but at least it don't look like a sad old man.  And they may be similar in handling but their not even close in ride and the e60 handles better.  It's jutst that the sad old frumpy man is smaller and naturally more nimble in some ways but the suspension on the e60 is superior.

I'm assuming you have no experience whatsoever with an E39.

[mrs hounddog]

The newer cars are much nicer looking overall but they lack real class in their interior design.  I don't have much knowledge about the driving and handeling but I know that most of the professional women I know would prefer the new car to the older style.

[ChrisV]

I don't have much knowledge about the driving and handeling but I know that most of the professional women I know would prefer the new car to the older style.

That's because new car = status. That's why they depreciate so fast. There's no status in onwing last year's model (or last year's fashions). Most professional women don't see cars as anything but status symbols and fashion accessories, and could care less which one actually WORKS better. 

I prefer the looks of mine to the newer car, and the dynamics of mine to the newer car. I actually drive my cars and how they drive is important. My sense of fashion with cars is what I've done with the car, not how big a check I've written.

[L. ed foote]

Most professional women don't see cars as anything but status symbols and fashion accessories, and could care less which one actually WORKS better. 

I would actually say most women see a car that way...  Come to think of it, I could probably could extend that to "most people."

As for me, I really like the styling of the E34, and an E28 holds a special place in my heart.  I can appreciate an E39, especially since you seem to be able to find more of them with a manual transmission (or it could just be me)

[Raza]

If you like old looking cars with less power not as good ride and less handling then yah it's >e60

You sound a bit defensive, Randy. 

[hounddog]

That's because new car = status. That's why they depreciate so fast. There's no status in onwing last year's model (or last year's fashions). Most professional women don't see cars as anything but status symbols and fashion accessories, and could care less which one actually WORKS better. 

I prefer the looks of mine to the newer car, and the dynamics of mine to the newer car. I actually drive my cars and how they drive is important. My sense of fashion with cars is what I've done with the car, not how big a check I've written.

Wow, can you possibly be anymore condescending and chauvenistic?  It just so happens Kat used to be an engineering team manager at GM, and knows a good deal about how they work.  She has also worked as an engineer at Honda and at an areospace company.  She even did a short stint at Ford.

She is not here right now to ask, but I believe she meant that she has not had any formal hands on training when it comes to driving and handling.  And that most of her professional friends are in the auto industry.

[the Teuton]

After a little more time between the wheel of each car, I have come to the consensus that if I were a realtor or something where I only had one or two people in the car at a time, I'd probably get an E39, but if I had to constantly haul around four or five people, the E60 makes much more sense between the two. 

Unfortunately, the E60 lacks a fair amount of the character that the E39 had.  I just found an E34 with cloth seats and a 5-speed manual that's calling my name, though, and it's sitting around, abandoned, at the parking lot where I work.

[sportyaccordy]

After a little more time between the wheel of each car, I have come to the consensus that if I were a realtor or something where I only had one or two people in the car at a time, I'd probably get an E39, but if I had to constantly haul around four or five people, the E60 makes much more sense between the two. 

Unfortunately, the E60 lacks a fair amount of the character that the E39 had.  I just found an E34 with cloth seats and a 5-speed manual that's calling my name, though, and it's sitting around, abandoned, at the parking lot where I work.

Is the E34 a 535i? Buy it!!!

[ChrisV]

Wow, can you possibly be anymore condescending and chauvenistic?

Yeah, I could be more condescending. SHE is the one who said, and I QUOTE "I don't have much knowledge about the driving and handeling" but then makes a value call that the newer one would be the one most professional women pick. NOT "automotive professionals" in general, mind you.


That means that regardless of how YOU took it, I was SPOT ON in saying that they don't CARE how they work (she admits she doesn't even KNOW) when making a decision. Since those of us that have dealt with both the older and newer ALL say the driving dynamics of the older version are better, and she responds to that with essentially, "I don't know but I'd take the newer one," then the reason she'd take the newer one is NOT driving dynamics but status, because that's what the newer one does better.

My opening statement, about luxury cars devaluing, wasn't condescending at all. It was a fact. Luxury cars DO devalue fast because luxury cars are status symbols. Always have been. And last year's model is like last year's fashions. You CAN get away with the last model year or two, so long as the body style hasn't changed and the casual observer could still think of it as a new model.

It jutst so happens Kat used to be an engineering team manager at GM, and knows a good deal about how they work.  She has also worked as an engineer at Honda and at an areospace company.  She even did a short stint at Ford.

And I've been modifying and racing cars for 30 years, as well as a stint as an SCCA driving instructor. I've owned over a hundred cars, and driven hundreds more on the track. I have a bit of experience in driving and handling. I've also done some aerospace engineering, doing the initial work for Millennium Airship.

She is not here right now to ask, but I believe she meant that she has not had any formal hands on training when it comes to driving and handling.  And that most of her professional friends are in the auto industry.

I have, and she discounted my experience when making her statement. She essentially said, "I don't know about driving and handling, but I don't care about YOUR experience and I and other professional women will still go with the newer one." From my perspective, that means how the car works is not important to her OR "professional women" She did make it clear that it was WOMEN she was talking about, too. Separate from professional MEN. As though she was saying professional women look at it differently. How differently? According to her, they want newer, regardless of how the cars work.  I'm not condescending. She's the one that separated out women that way.

[the Teuton]

Is the E34 a 535i? Buy it!!!

It's a 525i, but I really, really want it.  It was abandoned, so my manager is trying to get a salvage title for it or something like that.  How much is dealer trade-in value on something like that?  That's how much he'd sell it for.

[ChrisV]

On a lighter note, something that Randy should remember. I'm not saying (and I don't think anyone is saying) the E60 is a bad car. In fact, compared to 90+% of the cars on the road, it's a superior choice. Fast, comfortable, and even though the styling was and is controversial, it's a striking car in person. I like the E60.

It's just that, like  the E65 7 series, it's lost something compared to its immediate predecessors that made BMWs the world's premier sport sedans. In going after Mercedes and Lexus in the luxury car market, they've gotten more comfortable, but more complex, softer and a bit more numb to drive. It would be hyperbole to say that they've gone having the driver be an integral part of the machine to the driver being a passenger with a steering wheel, but that's the direction they headed this go around. feedback, driving dynamics, and the feeeling of bing part of the machine was the appeal of BMWs over the years, since they reinvented themselves with the 1602 and 2002 (and I've been driving BMWs off and on since the days of the 2002). And, for the most part, over the years they have gotten better and better at it. But this last generation, they've been going backwards in search of a larger audience, an audience that really just wants to be coddled in luxury at the expense of precision and driver involvement.

Again, the E60 is not a bad car by any means. It's just that it could have been so much more. And a lot of what it could have been is still present in the E39.

[L. ed foote]

Again, the E60 is not a bad car by any means. It's just that it could have been so much more. And a lot of what it could have been is still present in the E39.

Spot on

[Vinsanity]

No doubt would I take the E60 over the E39 if I had the money.

For better or for worse, the E60 was designed around what people who buy $50k+ cars want in a 4-door sedan. It's as simple as that.

E39 is nice, though, and getting pretty cheap, what with the E60 being the car to have.

[hotrodalex]

E60 for me. E60 M5, that is. 

[Raza]

No doubt would I take the E60 over the E39 if I had the money.

For better or for worse, the E60 was designed around what people who buy $50k+ cars want in a 4-door sedan. It's as simple as that.

E39 is nice, though, and getting pretty cheap, what with the E60 being the car to have.

And the E39 was designed around what people want in a steak dinner?

What the hell does that mean?

[Vinsanity]

And the E39 was designed around what people want in a steak dinner?

What the hell does that mean?

let me rephrase: the E60 is more of what people want in a $50k+ sedan

[Raza]

let me rephrase: the E60 is more of what people want in a $50k+ sedan

So you want all cars to be dictated by the masses?