Big Lux---Smaller Engines

[Yawn]

In Regensburg I have an A6 2.0 Turbo...Its nice.. works good for me..

[Submariner]

heres one I wouldn't mind having:

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/539377

e38 7 series 730d. 3 liter diesel and about 32 mpg

I really like those gauge chromed rings, not to mention the massage seats, full leather treatment, ambient lighting and power trunk.  Yes, I am a goodies junkie. 

What kind of transmission does it have?  I'd assume manual?

[AltinD]

I didn't know there was a such thing as an E200. It's an E-class with a 2.0 4cyl, right? 

I think is a supercharged 1.8L I4 but I might be wrong.

[Submariner]

I think is a supercharged 1.8L I4 but I might be wrong.

I believe you're right.

[Yawn]

They are all over Italy.. Most E Classes I see are either E200 OR 220..

[AltinD]

^^ The E220 is diesel powered.

BTW, do they still have a E230 (same 1.8 supercharged engine) with 163HP? And what about the E280, what size is the V6 there?

[nickdrinkwater]

^^ The E220 is diesel powered.

BTW, do they still have a E230 (same 1.8 supercharged engine) with 163HP? And what about the E280, what size is the V6 there?

The 280 is a 3.0 litre V6 (same engine as 350 but with less power I think).

Not sure about the 230 but I think it has been discontinued.

[GoCougs]

Right, but the prospect of owning an E-class Benz for C-class money would be more of a selling point than fuel economy. That's a major reason the 5-series and the 3-series (and 1-series!) share the same base engine in the US.

Fair enough, but I'd imagine that M_B USA would not want to see cannibalization of S-class sales by the C-class.

The price disparity between base (i.e., w/3.0L I6) 1, 3, and 5 series is still significant.

I have to admit, I see vanity compelling someone to buy an S-Class with a V6. If money is that tight and/or MPG that important, S-Class probably shouldn't be on the shopping list.

[Vinsanity]

Fair enough, but I'd imagine that M_B USA would not want to see cannibalization of S-class sales by the C-class.

The price disparity between base (i.e., w/3.0L I6) 1, 3, and 5 series is still significant.

I have to admit, I see vanity compelling someone to buy an S-Class with a V6. If money is that tight and/or MPG that important, S-Class probably shouldn't be on the shopping list.

It's not that money or mpg is important to those shoppers at all, really. It's more about preferring to own a CLS350 over a similarly priced E550 (people would gravitate more strongly to the higher-end body style than to the bigger engine)

[cawimmer430]

The current E200 is an E200 Kompressor. On the previous W210 it was at first an E200 with 136-hp an later an E200 Kompressor with about 160-horsepower. Current W211 E200 Kompressor is a supercharged 1.8-l 4-cylinder with  183-horsepower.

Current E230 is not a 4-cylinder but a 2.5-l V6 with 204-horsepower. 

[Autobahn]

The current E200 is an E200 Kompressor. On the previous W210 it was at first an E200 with 136-hp an later an E200 Kompressor with about 160-horsepower. Current W211 E200 Kompressor is a supercharged 1.8-l 4-cylinder with  183-horsepower.

Current E230 is not a 4-cylinder but a 2.5-l V6 with 204-horsepower. 

Who is buying an E 200 Kompressor, a C 180 Kompressor or an S 320 CDI?
It's those people that like the ride characteristics, looks, interior / ride comfort of these cars along with the nice features they can be equipped with (massaging seats, high-end audio, night vision whatever...). Safety aspects are an important issue too.
It's the same group of people who can enjoy a good red wine (heck a 2 Euro "headache wine" offers more buck for the money measured in Liter per Dollar), it's the group of people who would prefer traditionally made Italian Food at "name your local real Italian trattoria here" over microwave-stuff (even the microwave stuffs gives you more kilo per Dollar).

It's the same people who prefer to live in a real house with 2500 sq-ft than in a run-down storage-building with 10000 sq-ft (that would give you more sq-ft per Dollar)

(of course these things are exaggerated and do not exclude each other, i.e. one may drive a Dacia Logan and enjoy a good meal )

It's a matter of preferences, 220 hp in an S-Class are more than enough to comfortably drive everywhere roads will take you. Heck, even 150 hp would be. People put solar panels up on EUR 1 million + houses not because they can't swallow the electrical bill, but because they don't want to. It's a matter of preference, some prefer a small car with a lot of power while some prefer a luxury sedan with adequate power.
Saying that an S-Class with a small engine is not feasible because "those people" do not care about the fuel costs is not correct, smart people calculate the cost of a car based not only because of the purchase price but based on the full operational costs. so if I spent less on fuel costs later on I may buy a more expensive car from the beginning (or get more equipment with a lesser engine). I think its a smart move, and I am all for the manufacturers to offer these cars. I don't understand however, why Audi, BMW and Mercedes are not capitalizing on the small engines they already have in Europe and offer them in the US, but I guess its only a matter of time until we see the E200 Kompressor in the US (or the E 220 CDI )

[93JC]

I think you underestimate how much power is valued by North American consumers. For example, take the Mk V Golf/Rabbit.

In Germany the base engine is a 1.4 L I4 with 80 PS, correct?

In North America it is a 2.5 L I5 with 170 hp. It was 150 hp until this year: power was increased after many complaints that it was too slow...


Like I said, an S350 is not out of the realm of possibility, because 272 hp is still quite powerful, and I think they would sell even though lesser fare like Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys and such encroach on it.

But a 183 hp E-class? Sorry, not happening. Ford had enough trouble trying to sell a 201 hp Five Hundred.

[CALL_911]

I think you underestimate how much power is valued by North American consumers. For example, take the Mk V Golf/Rabbit.

In Germany the base engine is a 1.4 L I4 with 80 PS, correct?

In North America it is a 2.5 L I5 with 170 hp. It was 150 hp until this year: power was increased after many complaints that it was too slow...


Like I said, an S350 is not out of the realm of possibility, because 272 hp is still quite powerful, and I think they would sell even though lesser fare like Honda Accords, Toyota Camrys and such encroach on it.

But a 183 hp E-class? Sorry, not happening. Ford had enough trouble trying to sell a 201 hp Five Hundred.

That was because it was a Ford. In 2004-2005, BMW had no problems moving its 184 hp 525i in the US.

[93JC]

And they ditched it. And BMW sells more cars now than they did then.

What does that say for the popularity of the old 525i?

[CALL_911]

And they ditched it. And BMW sells more cars now than they did then.

What does that say for the popularity of the old 525i?

No, they didn't ditch it. They gave that model more power, as they did to the rest of the E60, over time. The 530i started out with 225 hp from an M54, then went to 255 in 2006 with the N52 engine, and is now the 535i with 300 hp and an N54 engine. In 2006, the 545i with 325 hp, became the 550i with 360 hp. In the same way, the 525i started out with 184 hp, went to 215 hp, and is now the 528i with 230 hp.

[Cookie Monster]

No, they didn't ditch it. They gave that model more power, as they did to the rest of the E60, over time. The 530i started out with 225 hp from an M54, then went to 255 in 2006 with the N52 engine, and is now the 535i with 300 hp and an N54 engine. In 2006, the 545i with 325 hp, became the 550i with 360 hp. In the same way, the 525i started out with 184 hp, went to 215 hp, and is now the 528i with 230 hp.

You're just proving JC correct... there's been an upward move in horsepower over the years.

A 4 cylinder Accord will get you more HP than an old 525i would.

[CALL_911]

You're just proving JC correct... there's been an upward move in horsepower over the years.

A 4 cylinder Accord will get you more HP than an old 525i would.

No one's denying that the Accord would get you more power. What's your point? 

They didn't ditch the least powerful model. The 528i is still overpowered by Camry, Accords, and even Hyundais now. That doesn't stop it from selling, now does it? BMW never ditched the 525i, they just kept refreshing it, as they did to the rest of the 5-series lineup.

[cawimmer430]

Even with rising fuel costs and environmental concerns Americans still want massive power in their cars? AND EXPECT THEM TO DO 40 MPG? 

[Cookie Monster]

No one's denying that the Accord would get you more power. What's your point? 

They didn't ditch the least powerful model. The 528i is still overpowered by Camry, Accords, and even Hyundais now. That doesn't stop it from selling, now does it? BMW never ditched the 525i, they just kept refreshing it, as they did to the rest of the 5-series lineup.

My point is that BMW keeps increasing the power, showing that people still do want more power and won't settle for something that's just adequate. The 4 cylinder Accord example shows how you can now get more HP from a sub $20k Accord than you could in a $40k + BMW. That's why BMW has to keep updating their engines.


And they sell a lot more 535 and 550's than 528's (at least around here).

[Yawn]

Thats before the rising fuel costs.. lol

[NomisR]

Even with rising fuel costs and environmental concerns Americans still want massive power in their cars? AND EXPECT THEM TO DO 40 MPG? 

Yes! 

[Madman]

Even with rising fuel costs and environmental concerns Americans still want massive power in their cars? AND EXPECT THEM TO DO 40 MPG? 

Yes, and they should cost almost nothing, too.  And they'll still want a huge discount on top of that!

I spent a few years in the car business.  The average American consumer's expectations are as unrealistic as they are contradictory.  They want it all, but feel like they shouldn't have to pay for it.

Having to deal with clueless, demanding and unrealistic customers who had no idea what they were on about (but who naturally thought they did) was why I got out of the car business.  The lesson I learnt was to never make your hobby your job.


Cheers,
Madman of the People

[CALL_911]

My point is that BMW keeps increasing the power, showing that people still do want more power and won't settle for something that's just adequate. The 4 cylinder Accord example shows how you can now get more HP from a sub $20k Accord than you could in a $40k + BMW. That's why BMW has to keep updating their engines.


And they sell a lot more 535 and 550's than 528's (at least around here).

Around here, they sell about equal amounts of 528xi's and 535xi's. There aren't many RWD cars.

[The Pirate]

Around here, they sell about equal amounts of 528xi's and 535xi's. There aren't many RWD cars.

That's funny.  You guys need AWD like once a year down there.  We don't even get that much snow up here in Albany, compared to where I used to live (Buffalo area).

[Cookie Monster]

That's funny.  You guys need AWD like once a year down there.  We don't even get that much snow up here in Albany, compared to where I used to live (Buffalo area).

Srsly.

People are such wimps.

[sportyaccordy]

It's crazy how what was once considered quick is now "painfully slow". Then again cars are a lot heavier now a days.

[CALL_911]

That's funny.  You guys need AWD like once a year down there.  We don't even get that much snow up here in Albany, compared to where I used to live (Buffalo area).

I agree.

[hotrodalex]

The lesson I learnt was to never make your hobby your job.

Amen.

[AltinD]

Yes, and they should cost almost nothing, too.  And they'll still want a huge discount on top of that!

I spent a few years in the car business.  The average American consumer's expectations are as unrealistic as they are contradictory.  They want it all, but feel like they shouldn't have to pay for it.

... clueless, demanding and unrealistic customers who had no idea what they were on about (but who naturally thought they did)

AMEN!!!