What I would like to see....

[Raza]

Ding Ding!

Once again!

"People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for."

Gadgets are a part of status as well.  It doesn't matter if you need them or not.  You feel a fool if your 50 thousand dollar car doesn't have nav and your neighbor's $30K Camry does.

[Colonel Cadillac]

The base 135i comes pretty damn close to your wish. 

I wish it had cloth seats instead of vinyl, but it does have manual seats.

Why would you want cloth seats?

[Colonel Cadillac]

Making stripper luxury cars is not exactly good for marketing and absolutely nobody would buy them.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Making stripper luxury cars is not exactly good for marketing and absolutely nobody would buy them.

The problem is, BMW's and the like shouldn't have to be fucking LUXURY cars. Only in America. 

[Vinsanity]

The problem is, BMW's and the like shouldn't have to be fucking LUXURY cars. Only in America. 

For the price they're asking/selling at, they better be.

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of a stripped-down lower-end 1-series priced in the low $20's, but it would cheapen the brand, and BMW would do no such thing.

[the Teuton]

Why would you want cloth seats?

Because cloth > Leather.

For the price they're asking/selling at, they better be.

I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of a stripped-down lower-end 1-series priced in the low $20's, but it would cheapen the brand, and BMW would do no such thing.

They tried that with the 318ti here and it failed miserably.  BMW will never sell a "cheap" car here again.  If you want a new cheap BMW, buy a MINI.

[Raza]

Because cloth > Leather.

They tried that with the 318ti here and it failed miserably.  BMW will never sell a "cheap" car here again.  If you want a new cheap BMW, buy a MINI.

Yeah, and if you want a cheap Mini, you're shit out of luck.

[MX793]

Why would you want cloth seats?

If you park your car outside, cloth doesn't get as cold in the winter or as hot in the summer.

[the Teuton]

Yeah, and if you want a cheap Mini, you're shit out of luck.

They are on a 6-month back order, but you can get a Cooper S for $23k brand new.  Come on, it's basically a BMW, it's going to have a premium no matter what.  All things considered, a Cooper S is still cheaper than a 318ti, adjusted for inflation.

Most non-S Minis roll out the door for well under $20k.

[Cookie Monster]

If you park your car outside, cloth doesn't get as cold in the winter or as hot in the summer.

+ 1 billion

[Cookie Monster]

They are on a 6-month back order, but you can get a Cooper S for $23k brand new.  Come on, it's basically a BMW, it's going to have a premium no matter what.  All things considered, a Cooper S is still cheaper than a 318ti, adjusted for inflation.

Most non-S Minis roll out the door for well under $20k.

If it were a BMW it'd be RWD.

[the Teuton]

If it were a BMW it'd be RWD.

This is the only time I'm going to mention this, but with the exception of the buzzy lawnmower engine in the car that sorta feels Honda-ish, the thing is a gokart.  IMO, it would do the BMW name much more proud than the A/B-Classes do for Mercedes-Benz.  Drive one, then talk.  It very much is an ultimate driving machine.

[Soup DeVille]

Making stripper luxury cars is not exactly good for marketing and absolutely nobody would buy them.

There's a difference between a "stripper" and a car not dependant on the excessive use of gadgetry.

Take an old Roller for example; the high quality of materials, the finish on the wood, the stitching on the seats; all are undeniably high-end luxury items. Yet, the cabin is sparsely equipped by modern standards.

Luxury is not dependant on excessive gadgetry. A 40 dollar timex will likely have more functions and doodads than a Rolex Submariner, yet nobody is confused about which is the luxury item.

[Raza]

They are on a 6-month back order, but you can get a Cooper S for $23k brand new.  Come on, it's basically a BMW, it's going to have a premium no matter what.  All things considered, a Cooper S is still cheaper than a 318ti, adjusted for inflation.

Most non-S Minis roll out the door for well under $20k.

Yeah, so for the same price as a GTI you can get a much smaller car that is not much nimbler.  I remember a handling test Wimmer posted that placed the GTI over the Mini.  And for the same price as a standard Cooper, you can get a much more powerful, larger, more useful Rabbit. 

Sounds like a great deal.

[CALL_911]

I'd take the GTI over the Cooper S, but the Cooper over the Rabbit.

[the Teuton]

I really do need to drive some VWs.  I need more of a basis for comparison.

[CALL_911]

I really do need to drive some VWs.  I need more of a basis for comparison.

Hah, I get to drive both the competitors on a daily basis.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I want a 123d three-door for a reasonable price.

[Soup DeVille]

My opinion on this matter is somewhat inconsequential, because long ago I realized my tastes do't quite mesh with those of the vast majority, but I'm going to tell you anyways.

A lot of the so-called features on modern luxury cars do nothing but annoy me. Mercedes, a few years ago at least, had power adjutable rear view mirrors on some models: not the side view mirrors which are outside the car; but the inside rear view nirrow placed directly on the windshield. You know, the mirror that is within easy reach of the driver's right hand? It was power adjustable only. Not only that, but the controls to adjust that mirror were almost exactly as far away from the steering wheel as the mirror itself would be. Not only that, but if you forgot about this most essential luxury feature and reach up to the mirror to adjust it directly, you'd end up breaking something and driving around with your mirror dangling uselessly.

Then there are the mirrors that change their aiming when you shift into reverse. What sort of stupidity is this? I use the mirrors to back up in the same position as I drive with them in, and I know of nobody who routinely changes them. Then there are "power folding mirrors." What the fuck is this about? I'm sure the mallard-like flapping of power folding mirrors could hold any kindergartener enthralled for hours, but what other purpose do they serve? Oh, yes- you can fold them in when you're parked. How nice. Except, exactly how many times have you ever wanted to fold your mirrors in when you park, and even better, how many cars have you ever seen parked with their mirrors folded in?

I mean look, you can pile annoyance upon annoyance, and I've only as of yet talked about mirrors! Imagine my complaints about power closing trunks, or four-zone climate control systems!

Look, this is what I want out of a car: For it to do what I tell it to, for it to work flawlessly every time, for it to be a joy to drive, or for it to be an oasis from the maddening chaos that's the rest of my day. Occasionally, I might eveen want someone to say "nice car."

I don't want to have to program a four hundred menu speech recognition command center or for it to have a more complex interface than my last desktop computer. I don't want to have to scroll through street level maps of Glasgow in order to change the radio station. I don't want my car to order my pizza for me, I have a phone, and I've already spent enough time to learn how that horrid contraption works.

Give me a nicely trimmed and appointed, powerful, quiet car that's a joy to drive with a good climate control system (with only one set of controls), and a decent radio; and leave the gimmicks.

[CALL_911]

My opinion on this matter is somewhat inconsequential, because long ago I realized my tastes do't quite mesh with those of the vast majority, but I'm going to tell you anyways.

A lot of the so-called features on modern luxury cars do nothing but annoy me. Mercedes, a few years ago at least, had power adjutable rear view mirrors on some models: not the side view mirrors which are outside the car; but the inside rear view nirrow placed directly on the windshield. You know, the mirror that is within easy reach of the driver's right hand? It was power adjustable only. Not only that, but the controls to adjust that mirror were almost exactly as far away from the steering wheel as the mirror itself would be. Not only that, but if you forgot about this most essential luxury feature and reach up to the mirror to adjust it directly, you'd end up breaking something and driving around with your mirror dangling uselessly.

Then there are the mirrors that change their aiming when you shift into reverse. What sort of stupidity is this? I use the mirrors to back up in the same position as I drive with them in, and I know of nobody who routinely changes them. Then there are "power folding mirrors." What the fuck is this about? I'm sure the mallard-like flapping of power folding mirrors could hold any kindergartener enthralled for hours, but what other purpose do they serve? Oh, yes- you can fold them in when you're parked. How nice. Except, exactly how many times have you ever wanted to fold your mirrors in when you park, and even better, how many cars have you ever seen parked with their mirrors folded in?

I mean look, you can pile annoyance upon annoyance, and I've only as of yet talked about mirrors! Imagine my complaints about power closing trunks, or four-zone climate control systems!

Look, this is what I want out of a car: For it to do what I tell it to, for it to work flawlessly every time, for it to be a joy to drive, or for it to be an oasis from the maddening chaos that's the rest of my day. Occasionally, I might eveen want someone to say "nice car."

I don't want to have to program a four hundred menu speech recognition command center or for it to have a more complex interface than my last desktop computer. I don't want to have to scroll through street level maps of Glasgow in order to change the radio station. I don't want my car to order my pizza for me, I have a phone, and I've already spent enough time to learn how that horrid contraption works.

Give me a nicely trimmed and appointed, powerful, quiet car that's a joy to drive with a good climate control system (with only one set of controls), and a decent radio; and leave the gimmicks.

Except for the reverse-aiming mirrors, I think the Audi A4 would appeal to you.

[Soup DeVille]

Except for the reverse-aiming mirrors, I think the Audi A4 would appeal to you.

I do like that car, but as you go upmarket, the A6 and the A8 become more intrusive and annoying.

[Cookie Monster]

My opinion on this matter is somewhat inconsequential, because long ago I realized my tastes do't quite mesh with those of the vast majority, but I'm going to tell you anyways.

A lot of the so-called features on modern luxury cars do nothing but annoy me. Mercedes, a few years ago at least, had power adjutable rear view mirrors on some models: not the side view mirrors which are outside the car; but the inside rear view nirrow placed directly on the windshield. You know, the mirror that is within easy reach of the driver's right hand? It was power adjustable only. Not only that, but the controls to adjust that mirror were almost exactly as far away from the steering wheel as the mirror itself would be. Not only that, but if you forgot about this most essential luxury feature and reach up to the mirror to adjust it directly, you'd end up breaking something and driving around with your mirror dangling uselessly.

Then there are the mirrors that change their aiming when you shift into reverse. What sort of stupidity is this? I use the mirrors to back up in the same position as I drive with them in, and I know of nobody who routinely changes them. Then there are "power folding mirrors." What the fuck is this about? I'm sure the mallard-like flapping of power folding mirrors could hold any kindergartener enthralled for hours, but what other purpose do they serve? Oh, yes- you can fold them in when you're parked. How nice. Except, exactly how many times have you ever wanted to fold your mirrors in when you park, and even better, how many cars have you ever seen parked with their mirrors folded in?

I mean look, you can pile annoyance upon annoyance, and I've only as of yet talked about mirrors! Imagine my complaints about power closing trunks, or four-zone climate control systems!

Look, this is what I want out of a car: For it to do what I tell it to, for it to work flawlessly every time, for it to be a joy to drive, or for it to be an oasis from the maddening chaos that's the rest of my day. Occasionally, I might eveen want someone to say "nice car."

I don't want to have to program a four hundred menu speech recognition command center or for it to have a more complex interface than my last desktop computer. I don't want to have to scroll through street level maps of Glasgow in order to change the radio station. I don't want my car to order my pizza for me, I have a phone, and I've already spent enough time to learn how that horrid contraption works.

Give me a nicely trimmed and appointed, powerful, quiet car that's a joy to drive with a good climate control system (with only one set of controls), and a decent radio; and leave the gimmicks.

In that case, I've got a perfectly nice 1998 Honda Accord EX V6 with your name on it.

Just give me your EP3 first.

[nickdrinkwater]

Gadgets are a part of status as well.  It doesn't matter if you need them or not.  You feel a fool if your 50 thousand dollar car doesn't have nav and your neighbor's $30K Camry does.

If I didn't want Nav, I wouldn't feel a fool, no.

[Raza]

My opinion on this matter is somewhat inconsequential, because long ago I realized my tastes do't quite mesh with those of the vast majority, but I'm going to tell you anyways.

A lot of the so-called features on modern luxury cars do nothing but annoy me. Mercedes, a few years ago at least, had power adjutable rear view mirrors on some models: not the side view mirrors which are outside the car; but the inside rear view nirrow placed directly on the windshield. You know, the mirror that is within easy reach of the driver's right hand? It was power adjustable only. Not only that, but the controls to adjust that mirror were almost exactly as far away from the steering wheel as the mirror itself would be. Not only that, but if you forgot about this most essential luxury feature and reach up to the mirror to adjust it directly, you'd end up breaking something and driving around with your mirror dangling uselessly.

And after so many people broke their rearview mirrors, they stopped doing it.  No, they have manual adjustable, but power-operated memory rearview mirrors.  So, if you set a memory position, it will power adjust all three mirrors in conjunction with your seats.  That's a pretty cool, if not necessary feature. 

It's part of the evolution of the automobile.  People try things.  Sometimes they're stupid, sometimes they revolutionize the industry.

Then there are the mirrors that change their aiming when you shift into reverse. What sort of stupidity is this? I use the mirrors to back up in the same position as I drive with them in, and I know of nobody who routinely changes them. Then there are "power folding mirrors." What the fuck is this about? I'm sure the mallard-like flapping of power folding mirrors could hold any kindergartener enthralled for hours, but what other purpose do they serve? Oh, yes- you can fold them in when you're parked. How nice. Except, exactly how many times have you ever wanted to fold your mirrors in when you park, and even better, how many cars have you ever seen parked with their mirrors folded in?

I mean look, you can pile annoyance upon annoyance, and I've only as of yet talked about mirrors! Imagine my complaints about power closing trunks, or four-zone climate control systems!

As I've had a car with both these features, I can tell you when they've come in handy. 

The moving passenger side mirror turns off with a simple switch.  And when parallel parking, it actually becomes fairly useful, giving you a better view of your wheels and the curb.  Hell, Edmunds said that feature saved the rims on their M3 for years. 

And when parallel parking, I do fold in the mirrors, or when parked in a particularly tight lot.  When parallel parking, it's really only necessary (as far as you want to go with that word) to fold in the driver side mirror, which I still do in my Passat, which have manual folding mirrors. 

Look, this is what I want out of a car: For it to do what I tell it to, for it to work flawlessly every time, for it to be a joy to drive, or for it to be an oasis from the maddening chaos that's the rest of my day. Occasionally, I might eveen want someone to say "nice car."

I don't want to have to program a four hundred menu speech recognition command center or for it to have a more complex interface than my last desktop computer. I don't want to have to scroll through street level maps of Glasgow in order to change the radio station. I don't want my car to order my pizza for me, I have a phone, and I've already spent enough time to learn how that horrid contraption works.

Give me a nicely trimmed and appointed, powerful, quiet car that's a joy to drive with a good climate control system (with only one set of controls), and a decent radio; and leave the gimmicks.

I'm with you here.  Buttons are good, straightforward, and simple.

[Raza]

If I didn't want Nav, I wouldn't feel a fool, no.

You're not the type of person I'm talking about.

[nickdrinkwater]

I agree with Raza that folding mirrors are useful.  I often fold my mirror in (by hand of course) when parking on the street.

[sportyaccordy]

OK here is some of what a $32K 2008 BMW 328i comes with standard:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Vehicles/2008/3/328iSedan/features_and_specs/default.aspx?enc=/eiUrYOZAxtXbrazY6tfknvs2p4czl6fdqlc7VGB7GP5XMbRQcDH+mx+QiM2etEknCx2VkpqfIPAFXe556lYDVvUpybOwrveyTU5bZ9kukI=

I don't think cutting out all the little features would bring the price down significantly.

And again, do u know what $20K will get u on the used BMW market???? A little more cash and u have E46 M3 money!

[Vinsanity]

I agree with Raza that the reverse-adjusting side mirror is very helpful, especially when your trunklid is taller than a midget, like on the CTS.

Speaking of trunklids, I wish mine had a power open/close feature. I hate having to put down whatever heavy load I'm carrying just to open/close the trunk. It would arguably be the most convenient power feature for me to have.

[Byteme]

I agree with Raza that the reverse-adjusting side mirror is very helpful, especially when your trunklid is taller than a midget, like on the CTS.

Speaking of trunklids, I wish mine had a power open/close feature. I hate having to put down whatever heavy load I'm carrying just to open/close the trunk. It would arguably be the most convenient power feature for me to have.

I guess it might be a safety feature.  The trunk lid, springing open could hit something, or if it malfunctions and unlatches while you are driving it would block your rearward vision.  I guess the thought is if you can use your hand to trigger the remote trunk release you can probably use that hand to raise the trunk lid.

I've never understood the rationale behind the power closing trunk lid. 

[Byteme]

My opinion on this matter is somewhat inconsequential, because long ago I realized my tastes do't quite mesh with those of the vast majority, but I'm going to tell you anyways.

A lot of the so-called features on modern luxury cars do nothing but annoy me. Give me a nicely trimmed and appointed, powerful, quiet car that's a joy to drive with a good climate control system (with only one set of controls), and a decent radio; and leave the gimmicks.

If I were making a "luxury" or convenience equipment list for a new car it would have:

5 or 6 speed manual.
In dash CD changer with at least 6 speakers and an aux input.
Trip computer.
10 way power driver and passenger seats
Lighted vanity mirrors
Full instrumentation
Trip computer
Power locks, with autolock in drive or reverse.
Power windows with one touch down and up on all four windows.
Hold the unlock button down on the second push and the front windows go down (great in a hot parking lot).
Flat fold down rear seat backs 60/40 split with opening controls both in the trunk and the passenger area.
Front and rear map or reading lights.
In dash GPS or a convenient place to mount an aftermarket unit (like the top of dash storage bin on the Mazda 6).
Leather or cloth seats (I actually prefer cloth)
Center console drink holders that have a cover (ala Mazda 3).
Two level console bin (again like the Mazda 3).
Front and rear power ports.
Tilt and telescope steering column.
Standard AC is fine for me.


The most worthless feature I have on one of my cars today is the autodimming rear view mirror with compass on our 6.  $200 wasted, IMHO.