GT-R , Not quite what it seemed at first...

[Tave]

For what it's worth, the reviews don't seem to think it's boring. I think a lot of you are basing your opinions off your own conjectures about the tech. The original 90s GT-R was tech-heavy, and as far as I can remember people didn't find it boring.


Another trouble spot is the weight (which goes hand in hand with the tech I suppose), but it also doesn't sound like the GT-R suffers from the penalty in a way like, say, the M5 or M6 does.


I'll be interested to hear what you guys have to say about the Spec-V.

[the Teuton]

You've never driven a fast car that you thought was boring? 

The 335i is fast and boring, if not just really, really sedate.

[CALL_911]

The 335i is fast and boring, if not just really, really sedate.

It's boring? I find it funny how you find every Subaru out "fun and engaging", yet you find the 335i boring.

[the Teuton]

It's boring? I find it funny how you find every Subaru out "fun and engaging", yet you find the 335i boring.

I love the E46.  The E90 just sucks at life, though.  It's not my fault that BMW is putting Toyota sedatives into their cars.

[CALL_911]

I love the E46.  The E90 just sucks at life, though.  It's not my fault that BMW is putting Toyota sedatives into their cars.

I'm beginning to think you hardly drive these cars. I liked the E46 I drove a lot, and I liked the E90/E92's I have driven just as much.

[the Teuton]

I'm beginning to think you hardly drive these cars. I liked the E46 I drove a lot, and I liked the E90/E92's I have driven just as much.

I've driven a 335xi for a 102-mile trip to deliver a customer car back to her (she had a Z4) with another driver.  I've driven an E46 for up to 8 miles in a single trip, and I've done that many, many times.  I'd pick the E46 any day of the week.

[JYODER240]

I'm beginning to think you hardly drive these cars. I liked the E46 I drove a lot, and I liked the E90/E92's I have driven just as much.

He barely drives the cars? You're the one without a liscence.

[sportyaccordy]

He barely drives the cars? You're the one without a liscence.

For what it's worth, the reviews don't seem to think it's boring. I think a lot of you are basing your opinions off your own conjectures about the tech. The original 90s GT-R was tech-heavy, and as far as I can remember people didn't find it boring.


Another trouble spot is the weight (which goes hand in hand with the tech I suppose), but it also doesn't sound like the GT-R suffers from the penalty in a way like, say, the M5 or M6 does.


I'll be interested to hear what you guys have to say about the Spec-V.

It's just too heavy and not good looking enough to really elicit a super-positive response response from me. Again it seems to do its job very well, and I'll even give it the benefit of the doubt regarding driver's excitement/engagement...

But I dunno... maybe I'm being Wimmerish... but it just doesn't have the appeal of simpler, lesser, flawed cars like the 911, or the RX-7, or the Miata. Again we all know it is a beast at 10/10ths... but is it something you could enjoy without having to test its limits? Does it sound/look good/have a classic design? I just don't think so from what I've seen, read and heard about it.

[Tave]

But I dunno... maybe I'm being Wimmerish... but it just doesn't have the appeal of simpler, lesser, flawed cars like the 911,

Oh yeah, like the Turbo! Oh no, wait a second...

[CALL_911]

He barely drives the cars? You're the one without a liscence.

I do have a permit, and I have spent a good amount of time with the cars mentioned.

[JYODER240]

I do have a permit, and I have spent a good amount of time with the cars mentioned.

Sorry but I don't buy that you've spent that much time driving new BMWs without a liscence. On top of that there's no way you could have pushed them anywhere near their limits. There's very few people on this forum who can drive cars well at 8/10ths, there's no way some kid who's 15 can just jump in and control a car near it's limit. On top of that there's no way you could have learned what to look and feel for at the limit.

[Tave]

Teuton isn't driving his dealership's cars at 10/10ths, either.

Edit: And I've seen his review of the 335 change from,

"I wanted to hate this car but the engine is just sooooooooo sweet,"

to

"It sucks at life"

[SVT666]

I've driven my buddy's 335i and it was a blast.  I had a lot of fun in that car.  The only problem with it is that it's only mildly fun until you drive it hard.  That's the biggest problem with most cars with high limits.  You have to driven them really hard to get them into that fun zone.  Otherwise they seem pretty sedate.  That's why cars like the Vette, GT-R, Porshe 911, etc. don't really get my blood boiling because in order for them to be really fun, you gotta drive at super illegal speeds to do that.  Cars like my SVT, the Sky/Solstice, MX-5 are a lot more fun for every day driving because their limits are lower and therefore are a lot more fun at real world speeds...though they can still achieve somewhat stupid speeds.

[JYODER240]

Teuton isn't driving his dealership's cars at 10/10ths, either.

Edit: And I've seen his review of the 335 change from,

"I wanted to hate this car but the engine is just sooooooooo sweet,"

to

"It sucks at life"

Well no one here is driving at 10/10ths. To be honest I'm not sure there's anyone on this forum that can drive their own car at 10/10ths. I think I'm a better driver than most people on this forum but there's no way I can drive my car at it's full potential.

[Tave]

Whatever. Taking cars to the wash, parking them in a lot, and occasionally delivering one to a customer isn't any more impressive than Call's equally limited seat time.

On top of that, the owner of the 335 on CarSPIN seems to like it, as do a lot of the other members that have driven it.

And I appreciate Teuton's point of view, but I think he should be comparing it to the other cars in its class, not to the days 'o' yore.

[CALL_911]

Sorry but I don't buy that you've spent that much time driving new BMWs without a liscence. On top of that there's no way you could have pushed them anywhere near their limits. There's very few people on this forum who can drive cars well at 8/10ths, there's no way some kid who's 15 can just jump in and control a car near it's limit. On top of that there's no way you could have learned what to look and feel for at the limit.

Well, I've had a LOT of experience with my parents' E60. I can say that I've had a lot of fun in it. I just drove about 400 miles in the thing on Saturday, alone. The E92 335i is one of my best friends' cars, and I pushed it on some roads out east. The E46 325i I drove was my sister's best friend's car, and it's getting booted anyway. He knew how much I liked it, so he finally let me drive it. I have also driven a 550i, and that was my Dad's best friend's car. I've been driving for about a year (not necessarily legally, but nonetheless.) If you don't believe me, fine, don't. But that can't stop me from expressing my opinions.

[CALL_911]

Whatever. Taking cars to the wash, parking them in a lot, and occasionally delivering one to a customer isn't any more impressive than Call's equally limited seat time.

On top of that, the owner of the 335 on CarSPIN seems to like it, as do a lot of the other members that have driven it.

And I appreciate Teuton's point of view, but I think he should be comparing it to the other cars in its class, not to the days 'o' yore.

The thing is, I drive that one E60 almost every day, and I don't just move the thing a few feet.

[SVT666]

Well no one here is driving at 10/10ths. To be honest I'm not sure there's anyone on this forum that can drive their own car at 10/10ths. I think I'm a better driver than most people on this forum but there's no way I can drive my car at it's full potential.

I can honestly say that I drove my SVT Focus at 10/10ths two weeks ago.  I bent the swaybar links in the process, and rolled the tires over so far that I had sidewall scrubbing almost to the wheel lip and scrubbed off so much tread that the front tires are almost completely worn out and they only have about 9000 miles on them.  The swaybar links are covered under warranty and I'm buying new tires for next spring.  I've driven my old Stang on the same road at about the same speed and I was only pushing about 8/10ths I would guess.

[Tave]

The thing is, I drive that one E60 almost every day, and I don't just move the thing a few feet.

Your experience is completely irrelevant to my point.

Compare the E90 to the W204 or B8. We are all well-aware of the changes and trends in the modern industry, but I never see people complaining about the new GTI, or A6, or E350. But 20 times a day I come on here and see someone complaining about BMW. It's fucking weird, like some sort of sick fetish.

[omicron]

Well no one here is driving at 10/10ths. To be honest I'm not sure there's anyone on this forum that can drive their own car at 10/10ths. I think I'm a better driver than most people on this forum but there's no way I can drive my car at it's full potential.

The Lexcen would throw me off a cliff in a fiery mess at 10/10ths. That would make for a fine photograph, of course!

[JYODER240]

I can honestly say that I drove my SVT Focus at 10/10ths two weeks ago.  I bent the swaybar links in the process, and rolled the tires over so far that I had sidewall scrubbing almost to the wheel lip and scrubbed off so much tread that the front tires are almost completely worn out and they only have about 9000 miles on them.  The swaybar links are covered under warranty and I'm buying new tires for next spring.  I've driven my old Stang on the same road at about the same speed and I was only pushing about 8/10ths I would guess.

Sounds like you need some more air in your tires. But just because you were sliding around doesn't neccasarily mean you were at 10/10ths. If there's one thing I learned at driving school that's it. I could have a car the tires screaming for mercy and the entire car feeling like it's sliding through the turn but the instructors could still take the same corner faster if they wanted to. It's a very humbling experience.

[JYODER240]

  That's why cars like the Vette, GT-R, Porshe 911, etc. don't really get my blood boiling because in order for them to be really fun, you gotta drive at super illegal speeds to do that.  Cars like my SVT, the Sky/Solstice, MX-5 are a lot more fun for every day driving because their limits are lower and therefore are a lot more fun at real world speeds...though they can still achieve somewhat stupid speeds.

I've been saying that for awhile.

[Tave]

Then why didn't you buy a Miata instead of your 300 hp Nissan?

[SVT666]

Sounds like you need some more air in your tires. But just because you were sliding around doesn't neccasarily mean you were at 10/10ths. If there's one thing I learned at driving school that's it. I could have a car the tires screaming for mercy and the entire car feeling like it's sliding through the turn but the instructors could still take the same corner faster if they wanted to. It's a very humbling experience.

I didn't say I was sliding around.  I was at the limit of adhesion on every corner though.  My boss was with me and he is former British Military Police.  They go through the most stringent driver training I've ever seen.  He gave me some pointers on how to drive faster and safer and at the limit.  After about an hour and a half of continuous hard driving he told me I almost had it down, though any professinal driver would still be able to get more out of it.  The tires needed more air, yes.  But I do know how to drive Yoder.  

My boss has a new Cooper S with the John Cooper Works Package and I rode with him on the same 3 hour stretch and I've never seen anyone drive that fast on that kind of road.  It was unreal.  He was smoother then me, but by the time I was finished absorbing his advice and pointers I was nearly as fast.  His car is more capable then mine though.

[JYODER240]

I didn't say I was sliding around.  I was at the limit of adhesion on every corner though.  My boss was with me and he is former British Military Police.  They go through the most stringent driver training I've ever seen.  He gave me some pointers on how to drive faster and safer and at the limit.  After about an hour and a half of continuous hard driving he told me I almost had it down, though any professinal driver would still be able to get more out of it.  The tires needed more air, yes.  But I do know how to drive Yoder.  

My boss has a new Cooper S with the John Cooper Works Package and I rode with him on the same 3 hour stretch and I've never seen anyone drive that fast on that kind of road.  It was unreal.  He was smoother then me, but by the time I was finished absorbing his advice and pointers I was nearly as fast.  His car is more capable then mine though.

I didn't say you don't know how to drive. I just said that in reality no one on this forum can really drive their cars at 10/10ths myself included. I learned that often what feels like 10/10ths is really more like 8 or 9/10ths.

[Raza]

The 335i is fast and boring, if not just really, really sedate.

I'm going to be driving one soon, so I'll be the judge of that.  Unfortunately, it will be an automatic.

[JYODER240]

Then why didn't you buy a Miata instead of your 300 hp Nissan?

Who said my car is too much for backroads?

What I'm usually refering to is that if you take something like a high-end exotic or something with really high limits like a Vette or Viper they're not really best suited for tight backroads. They shine on the track but they're too much for roads like the ones I like to visit in southern Ohio.

[JYODER240]

I still find the 3-series to be more fun to drive than it's competitors. But I'll agree that the E90 feels a little watered down compared to the E46. The TT engine in a E46 would be great.

[Raza]

I still find the 3-series to be more fun to drive than it's competitors. But I'll agree that the E90 feels a little watered down compared to the E46. The TT engine in a E46 would be great.

I just put 500 miles on a new C class.  That's a damn good car.  The BMW's chassis has a good benchmark in my mind.  However, the C class I drove was AWD, so that killed some of the fun.  I'm curious as to how the BMW will be.  The other two BMWs I've driven haven't impressed. 

[NomisR]

I didn't say you don't know how to drive. I just said that in reality no one on this forum can really drive their cars at 10/10ths myself included. I learned that often what feels like 10/10ths is really more like 8 or 9/10ths.

It takes balls to drive at true 10/10th of a car.  And it really only take a couple spins where you end up losing your confidence in the car and where you have to build it back up again..  no fun..