GT-R , Not quite what it seemed at first...

[Soup DeVille]

I wasn't planning on renewing, but they just offered another year for $5. 

Still, I don't really like the mag anymore.  Their 135i review sucked.  In fact, after driving just about every BMW currently made, all of their reviews kinda blow when it comes to giving the reader an impression of what the car is like to drive.  If a car mag isn't suppose to do that, then what's its function?

Hmmm, 12 issues for $5, that's what, 42 cents an issue?

Seems like after postage, they might get a couple of pennies out of it?

[the Teuton]

Hmmm, 12 issues for $5, that's what, 42 cents an issue?

Seems like after postage, they might get a couple of pennies out of it?

So it might be in my best interest to re-subscribe to their garbage?

[Soup DeVille]

So it might be in my best interest to re-subscribe to their garbage?

Depends, do you have a fireplace? A subscription might be cheaper than buying firelighters...

[the Teuton]

Depends, do you have a fireplace? A subscription might be cheaper than buying firelighters...

No, unfortunately, but we are low on toilet paper right now.

[Soup DeVille]

No, unfortunately, but we are low on toilet paper right now.

C/D might not be, well it might be a little too shiny for that duty...

[the Teuton]

C/D might not be, well it might be a little too shiny for that duty...

I'll just use Csaba's column.  That should do the trick.

[nickdrinkwater]

Seems like a bargain to me!  I paid more than that for one issue.

[Raza]

You said, "It won because it was cheaper," not, "It won because it had rear seats."  5 points for rear seats, by the way.  If you're going to ignore rear seats, then what else do you deem unimportant?  Because the GT-R lost points for trunk space, fit and finish, interior and exterior styling, fuel economy, engine NVH, and "gotta have it" compared to the GT2.

Well, it was the only car in the feature that had rear seats.  That's like having a comparison between a bunch of sports cars and an SUV and giving the SUV 10 points across the board on every practicality category. 

[afty]

It was one category, and it was 5 points.  Come on!  As I pointed out, it lost points in other practicality categories, as well as the completely worthless "gotta have it."

[Raza]

It was one category, and it was 5 points.  C'mon!  As I pointed out, it lost points in other practicality categories, as well as the completely worthless "gotta have it."

As stupid as the "gotta have it factor" is, the rear seat category is just as irrelevant.

[MX793]

As stupid as the "gotta have it factor" is, the rear seat category is just as irrelevant.

In a Coupe/Sports/GT car comparo, I'd be inclined to agree.  For a family car or luxury sedan comparison, I think it's a pretty important.  Perhaps they should have different rating templates for different car types...

[r0tor]

The GT-R placed second. The Vette and the Viper were the cars that got their asses whooped.

On lap times the Viper romped it by 5 seconds, and the GT2 also nudged it out...

[the Teuton]

The Corvette did seem to get romped this time around.  How did that happen?

[Raza]

In a Coupe/Sports/GT car comparo, I'd be inclined to agree.  For a family car or luxury sedan comparison, I think it's a pretty important.  Perhaps they should have different rating templates for different car types...

I meant rear seat space in this comparison is irrelevant, considering it's the only car that had rear seats, and they were on a race track.  I've never seen a Formula 1 driver get out after winning a race and say "the car was very good, it handled well, but I wish I had rear seats." 

You have to choose what is and what is not relevant in a comparison.  If the staff doesn't have the brains to choose that, then I don't know why I'd bother spending money on reading their words.  The only reason I read this comparison is because the rag was at the waiting room at my eye doctor's.

[Soup DeVille]

I meant rear seat space in this comparison is irrelevant, considering it's the only car that had rear seats, and they were on a race track.  I've never seen a Formula 1 driver get out after winning a race and say "the car was very good, it handled well, but I wish I had rear seats." 

You have to choose what is and what is not relevant in a comparison.  If the staff doesn't have the brains to choose that, then I don't know why I'd bother spending money on reading their words.  The only reason I read this comparison is because the rag was at the waiting room at my eye doctor's.

Exactly. cargo and passenger space is of paramount importance on a minivan, in the same way that nobody gives a damn what the quarter mile time of a Dodge Caravan is.

[Lebowski]

The Corvette did seem to get romped this time around.  How did that happen?

It's the oldest car in the group, and the 2nd cheapest.

[the Teuton]

It's the oldest car in the group, and the 2nd cheapest.

When's the C7 coming out, 2010?

[sportyaccordy]

And for all this talk about, "just because a car is fast, doesn't mean it's good blah blah blah blah"


LOOK AT THE ARTICLE! The GT-R didn't win because its fast. In fact, the competition was faster (at least in a straight line). The GT-R won because it showed the intangibles that all the haters are saying it doesn't have, while costing less that its competitors!


"I just don't understand how someone can repeatedly deny the existence of something punching them in the face over and over"

Track times aren't the be-all-end-all, but they're certainly more than a "useless metric" used to judge performance.

Especially the Ring, which combines so many factors (cornering, grip, straight line speed, composure, uneven surfaces, all radii of turns, elevation changes, etc...) to get a good overall picture of what the car is capable of.

Those type of credentials, combined with the reviews, give us a decent picture of what the car's all about. And most every tester has creamed his pants after driving it. Leno sounds like a giggling school girl in his video.

I think it's pretty phenominal that the GT-R can lap tracks faster than pretty much every production car on the planet (while doing it, often, for tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars less), but maybe I'm just crazy.

Again I have never downplayed the GT-R's performance or value

But I just refuse to fellate this car

It is over-computerized, heavy, and ugly

Again I would love to take it to the track, as long as I could leave it there. For the money, I could think of a million slower cars I would rather own.

To me, the GT-R is equivalent to those NHRA funny cars... impressive within their own realm, but they take the idea of function over form wayyyy too far. For the money, the REAL money (we all know GT-Rs will not go for anything near $70K... try $90K or so), I would rather do something like a used GT3 or one of the big body Ferraris (456 or 550). It's just like how I'm sure any WRX or 350z would walk all over something like a 330i all over the track... but that doesn't automatically make it the better car, overall.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Here is a thread with the Scans of the article in question.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23102

...

I didn't realize airsplitters were illegal. For a DD, I'll take the Viper, anyway.

[nickdrinkwater]

Again I have never downplayed the GT-R's performance or value

But I just refuse to fellate this car

It is over-computerized, heavy, and ugly

Again I would love to take it to the track, as long as I could leave it there. For the money, I could think of a million slower cars I would rather own.

To me, the GT-R is equivalent to those NHRA funny cars... impressive within their own realm, but they take the idea of function over form wayyyy too far. For the money, the REAL money (we all know GT-Rs will not go for anything near $70K... try $90K or so), I would rather do something like a used GT3 or one of the big body Ferraris (456 or 550). It's just like how I'm sure any WRX or 350z would walk all over something like a 330i all over the track... but that doesn't automatically make it the better car, overall.

Those cars you mention would cost more to run and maintain than the GT-R, and couldn't really be used every day like the Nissan can (especially the Ferraris).

[Tave]

Again I would love to take it to the track, as long as I could leave it there. For the money, I could think of a million slower cars I would rather own.

You're not making any sense. According to this article, the GT-R isn't the best track-star. It won because it's the better "all around" car.

To me, the GT-R is equivalent to those NHRA funny cars... impressive within their own realm, but they take the idea of function over form wayyyy too far. For the money, the REAL money (we all know GT-Rs will not go for anything near $70K... try $90K or so), I would rather do something like a used GT3 or one of the big body Ferraris (456 or 550). It's just like how I'm sure any WRX or 350z would walk all over something like a 330i all over the track... but that doesn't automatically make it the better car, overall.

Some of the complaints you have,

Really though there's much more to a sports car than numbers... accel times, lap times, whatever. What good is capability you will never be able to fully exploit 99% of the time?

Aren't going to magically disappear in the Porsche or Ferrari

[NomisR]

Again I have never downplayed the GT-R's performance or value

But I just refuse to fellate this car

It is over-computerized, heavy, and ugly

Again I would love to take it to the track, as long as I could leave it there. For the money, I could think of a million slower cars I would rather own.

To me, the GT-R is equivalent to those NHRA funny cars... impressive within their own realm, but they take the idea of function over form wayyyy too far. For the money, the REAL money (we all know GT-Rs will not go for anything near $70K... try $90K or so), I would rather do something like a used GT3 or one of the big body Ferraris (456 or 550). It's just like how I'm sure any WRX or 350z would walk all over something like a 330i all over the track... but that doesn't automatically make it the better car, overall.

Well, looking at that comparason, GTR won because it has a back seat and it's the cheapest.  If you take out the things that I don't care about under the vehicle section, it would be ranked #3 closely behind the Viper. 

Overall, it's still a great car for the money but I'd still have to drive it to see.  But from what I've seen, this wouldn't make a fun track/race simply because of the weight and price.  Weight makes this car a porker for the track and price makes the driver not push this car at all to it's fullest potential.  It would make a nice blvd cruiser but it's too ugly to show off..

[sportyaccordy]

You're not making any sense. According to this article, the GT-R isn't the best track-star. It won because it's the better "all around" car.

Some of the complaints you have,

Aren't going to magically disappear in the Porsche or Ferrari

Maybe not with the Ferraris... but they definitely look and sound better, which is worth it to me

And the GT3 weighs a good 700# less than a GT-R and again looks and sounds better, IMO. Plus Porsches aren't THAT expensive to maintain. Hell, between the gas, huge soft tires + brakes, the extra diffs and all that stuff I'm sure the running costs of a GT-R will be much higher than that of a GT3 over the life of the car. And of course, if history can be used as a reference, the GT-R's reliability could be an issue as well...

I'm just not convinced...

[Tave]

Well, looking at that comparason, GTR won because it has a back seat and it's the cheapest.  If you take out the things that I don't care about under the vehicle section, it would be ranked #3 closely behind the Viper.

If you factor out rear seats, the GT-R still wins. If you factor out seats and price, it comes in second. What else are you removing?

[NomisR]

If you factor out rear seats, the GT-R still wins. If you factor out seats and price, it comes in second. What else are you removing?

Well, the entire vehicle column since a lot of that's subjective like looks and interior layout..

[Lebowski]

Hell, between the gas, huge soft tires + brakes, the extra diffs and all that stuff I'm sure the running costs of a GT-R will be much higher than that of a GT3

You're sure?

[Eye of the Tiger]

I agree with all of you. The GT-R is the most ridiculously overcomplicated contraption that has ever existed and couldn't possibly work as well as anybody says it does... unless it was built by ALIENS!!!!!!!!

[NomisR]

I agree with all of you. The GT-R is the most ridiculously overcomplicated contraption that has ever existed and couldn't possibly work as well as anybody says it does... unless it was built by ALIENS!!!!!!!!

I'm sure he has nothing to do with the building and development of the GTR

[Sigma Projects]

man what is with people and hating the GTR? I don't get it. First it's uninvolved some how... like going around corners fast is boring... second it's ugly... which is pretty subjective, I like the looks, everyone can have their opinions... third it just has this horrible sound... what? I mean you guys make it sound like it has the worst sound ever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKcyJ960WBY&NR=1

I mean if you want it sounding better i guess splurge a little and get some greddy mufflers to open up the sound. I doesn't so bad to me, not the best, but certainly not crappy.

I mean this isn't my favorite car, but damn you guys make it sound like it's the worst car every built and that it should be sent back to japan strapped on fat man followed by little boy.

[Raza]

man what is with people and hating the GTR? I don't get it. First it's uninvolved some how... like going around corners fast is boring... second it's ugly... which is pretty subjective, I like the looks, everyone can have their opinions... third it just has this horrible sound... what? I mean you guys make it sound like it has the worst sound ever...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKcyJ960WBY&NR=1

I mean if you want it sounding better i guess splurge a little and get some greddy mufflers to open up the sound. I doesn't so bad to me, not the best, but certainly not crappy.

I mean this isn't my favorite car, but damn you guys make it sound like it's the worst car every built and that it should be sent back to japan strapped on fat man followed by little boy.

You've never driven a fast car that you thought was boring?