Subie A/C

[AutobahnSHO]

So the Subie A/C needs repair.

The dealership today filled it a little and said the compressor, expansion valve, and dryer need to be replaced- w/ another fill that's $1368. (Because the compressor is discounted from $679 to $499.)

Online I can get reman compressors for $100 with 1yr warranty off ebay. OR there is a site online
http://discountacparts.com/addtocart~year~1997~make~Subaru~model~Legacy~descript~~part~60-00848.asp#  which says they can get the OEM (new) compressor for $399 with s/h.

The valve and dryer would be about $100 from autozone or that site.

I'm considering ordering the parts and doing it myself, then having them fill it and make sure I didn't muss anything up. Or the Army DIY garage charges $50 for fill and diagnosis..

I can find the dryer (EASY to replace, I hope!) but where is the valve?
Which compressor should I go with? Is this even anything I should consider doing on my own??

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In other news, they said the knock sensor is what's causing the CEL, I ordered one for $80. Any idea where it is located??

[the Teuton]

You're getting into uncharted territory for me, and I've played around with my car a fair amount.  Ask Roy.  He'd know.

[Soup DeVille]

Most knock sensors are located on the exhaust side of the head in about the middle.

[AutobahnSHO]

Most knock sensors are located on the exhaust side of the head in about the middle.

Thanks- I'm hoping that should be easy then. Dealer total parts + labor was $218. If it takes me less than two hours that should bring my total to less than $100. But I dunno how to reset the light, or if it will even need to be reset...   :-<

At least I dont' have to deal with emissions testing as long as I live outside of UTah and don't live where the state requires Utah to require it....

[FlatBlackCaddy]

The light should go away after several start stop cycles on it's own. Or you could unplug the battery overnight, that should do it too.

A/C systems aren't all that difficult, changing the compressor is no different than changing a alternator. As for the lines and dryer just make sure you replace EVERY O-ring that you encounter(meaning any connection you undo you should replace the seal). The worst thing that could happen is after you assemble it you have a leak, but the army garage/local shop should be able to see that during a leak down test so they won't waste the A/C charge.

[AutobahnSHO]

The light should go away after several start stop cycles on it's own. Or you could unplug the battery overnight, that should do it too.

A/C systems aren't all that difficult, changing the compressor is no different than changing a alternator. As for the lines and dryer just make sure you replace EVERY O-ring that you encounter(meaning any connection you undo you should replace the seal). The worst thing that could happen is after you assemble it you have a leak, but the army garage/local shop should be able to see that during a leak down test so they won't waste the A/C charge.

Should I bother to go with a $100 reman compressor, or go with the $400 OEM one??

Do the parts I'm ordering come with the o-rings? Are they Rubber?

[the Teuton]

Should I bother to go with a $100 reman compressor, or go with the $400 OEM one??

Do the parts I'm ordering come with the o-rings? Are they Rubber?

You could always go on NASIOC or the Legacy forums and get one from someone who gutted their car for $20-30.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I've had bad luck with reman alternators in the past(i replaced the alternator in my 240 3 times). I guess it depends on who/where it is remanufactured at. It depends on how long you inted to own the car or how long you think it will last. A reman might not be a bad idea if you're just looking at another 3-5 years or so.

A used OEM unit would be the best bet(obviously working before it was removed).

When parts are bought new they don't always come with the seals(O-rings, they are just rubber normally). Make sure you have them before you dig in. If you don't have a seal you will likely use the old one(they always LOOK fine).

[S204STi]

Will, I'd go with OEM parts only and I'd have it professionally installed.  The reason why is that I've had compressors fail multiple times, even new ones, so it is important to have the system purged properly and have the safety net of a parts/labor warranty in the likely chance that this doesn't fix your problems 100%.

[AutobahnSHO]

Thanks for the input Roy-
That OEM compressor and parts above have a year warranty- I figure if they fail, they would fail right away, right?

The Army DIY garage has a guy certified in A/C (he's on vacation until the 16th). I would have them drain whatever small amount of freon is in there now, I would unbolt/ bolt the compressor, drier, and valve, then ask them to check for leaks and purge/fill/oil the system.

But I ASK, is this worth my time?
If it leaks I would have to have them drain it and figure out where the problem is, and again I'd do the labor.
I'm a klutz so it takes me forever to get work done, but the compressor and drier are right on top and don't seem overly difficult to do. (Where's the expansion valve?)

AND, even if the compressor fails I'd still be saving money shipping it back to them and getting a new one (plus refilling the system) vs. paying Subaru to do it.

$1370 for Subaru to do it.
My doing it would be ~$500 parts +  $100 fill & leak check + a friday evening and Saturday spent wrenching.
(Should I check w/ other A/C shops??)

Thanks for the help and advice!

[S204STi]

Look at it this way, if the compressor failed catastrophically (which brings me to another point...was it just leaking or did it asplode?) then there is still a chance that metal particles will wipe out your new compressor.  The parts supplier will be more likely to work with warrantying the part if a shop installs it rather than you yourself.

So let's do some quick math; having Subaru, or any other shop let's say, do the work will cost $1370.  Doing it yourself is $650 let's say for argument.  If your new compressor also blows itself up, you will get to do all of this again, possibly without the parts warranty, depending on whether or not the parts supplier will warranty that part without having it professionally installed, which means that you get to do this all again for another $650, which means that you are out of pocket $1300 dollars...

I get trying to save yourself money, and honestly if the compressor was merely leaking then yeah just do it yourself.  But I guess I thought they meant the compressor failed altogether, in which case I'd have at least another shop do it with napa parts or something, which may still be cheaper than Subaru.

[AutobahnSHO]

It worked for about a half-day after they filled it to test. The tech said the compressor wouldn't come on at all so he had to fill it to get it to engage to see if it was working..

I could save receipts from the Army DIY garage, but it would only be about $30 for the bay fees :-) and $55(?) for the fill/check... 

I'll check with a shop down the street and see if they will install parts I bring in, and what the charges would be. But they wanted $180 to fill/check for leaks..

But they're also about 7 miles closer- it takes a while to get to the dealership.

[S204STi]

Yeah, just FYI just because the compressor wasn't moving when you brought it in doesn't mean it was toast.  It has a pressure switch which will prevent operation in the case that the system is empty.

If I were you I'd get a second opinion on that compressor before you put one in.  It might be just fine.

[r0tor]

Yeah, just FYI just because the compressor wasn't moving when you brought it in doesn't mean it was toast.  It has a pressure switch which will prevent operation in the case that the system is empty.

If I were you I'd get a second opinion on that compressor before you put one in.  It might be just fine.

+1 sounds like you just have a large leak in the system to me

[AutobahnSHO]

So the mechanic at the Army DIY shop plugged the system up and tested it.
No leaks.
Filled it and it blew cold air, although there is apparently a blockage: he showed me the high side was plenty pressurized, the low side didn't have ANY pressure...

So he said I need to flush the entire system, put in a new expansion valve and drier, then fill and test again. MIGHT need a new compressor still.

sigh.

By the time I get money and get it fixed, summer will be over.... 

[S204STi]

By not having any pressure do you mean like 40-50 psi versus 140psi for the high side?  If so, that is perfectly normal.  You have a metering devise which separates the high and low pressure sides of the system, and that division is needed to allow the refrigerant to evaporate when it reaches the evaporator.

I suspect he doesn't know wtf he's talking about, basically.

[AutobahnSHO]

No, the machine filled both sides at the same time.

Then when he kept it plugged in while I turned it on, there was plenty of pressure on the highside, the compressor apparently sucked it out of the lowside and it dropped REALLY REALLY low (like 10-20??) and didn't come back up at all.
-It WAS cooling for the 3-5 minutes while we looked at it.

I'm just kind of upset I STILL don't know for sure what's wrong.
I trust this guy more than Subaru- they wanted $1300, this guy says clean the tubing out then try it again and if I HAVE to, buy a compressor. And didn't charge anything- he'll charge me the $50 diagnosis fee when I come back and try it again..
-He said at a minimum also replace the drier and expansion valve.

(Plus he sucked everything back out so I can open 'er up and work on it- so I don't get a few days of a/c working...?)

Should I try filling it myself? take it to a decent a/c shop, or what??   :-|

[S204STi]

I need actual manifold pressure numbers while the system is running.  I really doubt you have an actual blockage.

[AutobahnSHO]

dang it- I wish I'd looked more closely at the gauges then..

Owing to the fact taht it cooled (slightly) for a few minutes after Subaru checked it out, and it cooled WELL while the DIY garage had it fully pressurized, should I just fill it myself and call it good until next year?

[S204STi]

dang it- I wish I'd looked more closely at the gauges then..

Owing to the fact taht it cooled (slightly) for a few minutes after Subaru checked it out, and it cooled WELL while the DIY garage had it fully pressurized, should I just fill it myself and call it good until next year?

That is what a lot of people do.  If you want to, go for it.

[r0tor]

i tried that approach in my girlfriends car last weekend... worked really well for 3 minutes, shut the car off, and then heard a depressing leaking sound coming from the hole i just discovered in the ac condensor...

[AutobahnSHO]

Ouch-
How loud was the sound??

I'm still debating, since they pressured mine up fully and said there were no leaks I might just do it. 

Once I get some money though- the Army owes me THOUSANDS from our move and we're running out of savings....

[S204STi]

I noticed a lot of the chains like Mineke and some tire shops are offering AC recharges for about $50-$70 bucks.  That price only includes a pound of refrigerant, but it's still reasonable.