Automated Tire Tread Tickets!!!!1!!111!!!!!!??????

[Byteme]

What if he's got full tread depth, but he's driving a Dodge Dakota pulling a trailer and then slams into you? Should we make Dodge Dakotas illegal since they're heavy and the brakes are shit?

What if Jack the Ripper springs back to life and kills us all.  My original response was to a comment regarding worn tires.  "Why should I care if someone is running on worn tires in the middle of July when you can "run whatcha brung" in the winter?
"  In fact it was your comment.

And all I said was I could see the usefulness of such a camera.  That statement doesn't imply endorsement of its deployment.

[Soup DeVille]

He could slam into you without having worn tires. Hard compound tires don't stick any better in the wet, even with good tread.

An example: my RX7 with nearly new BF Goodrich Comp T/As woudl spin the tires easily in the rain, and was slippery to drive in the wet. With the "visibly bald" A008 RSIIs on it, it woudl NOT spin the tires and woudl launch and stil pull over .8Gs in the wet. A much softer compound that heated up even in the rain and squeegeed the water out. But which one would the general public and these tire cameras think were bald and unsafe in the rain?

Honestly though, how many people are driving around on short track gumballs?

[ChrisV]

Honestly though, how many people are driving around on short track gumballs?

Maybe more people should be.

I mean, those are the most important part of the car when it comes to 1) delivering power, 2) agility and avoiding obstacles, and 3) braking. But instead, it's the part that people most often cheap out on just to get even more miles out of them, essentially driving on black rings of teflon, and then they wonder why they can't stop fast enough or slide off the road so easily.

My point was that just making sure that those black bits of teflon have some "legal" tread on them will not ensure that Joe Average on $39.95 "on the rim and out the door" tires won't slide into you in the wet.

[NomisR]

Maybe more people should be.

I mean, those are the most important part of the car when it comes to 1) delivering power, 2) agility and avoiding obstacles, and 3) braking. But instead, it's the part that people most often cheap out on just to get even more miles out of them, essentially driving on black rings of teflon, and then they wonder why they can't stop fast enough or slide off the road so easily.

My point was that just making sure that those black bits of teflon have some "legal" tread on them will not ensure that Joe Average on $39.95 "on the rim and out the door" tires won't slide into you in the wet.

That's people's mentality today.  If they can't stop, it must be the brakes.  Nobody ever think about the only thing that's keeping them on the road is 4 small patches no bigger than a letter sized paper. 

[Autobahn]

Yeah but if you can't generate revenue from having more educated drivers.  Sure you can charge for educating them but it still won't be worth as much as ticketing everything and everyone.

Which I doubt, in Germany the fees collected by the state for your drivers license are about $600 plus all the licensing and taxes from the mandatory driving training in certified driving schools. I know very little people that payed more than $ 1000 in tickets.

That said the German government will be running for this system like crazy, I can already see the state personell getting all excited (if something like this even exist) and calculating revenue streams.

[rohan]

I varies by state. In Michigan at least, if an officer sees a busted taillight on a parked car, its an equipment violation. If he sees a faulty taillight on a moving car on a public road- or other improper lighting- it can be a moving violation, and there's a fine and points whether you fix it or not.

Nope.  A busted taillight on a parked car is just a busted taillight on a parked car and we can't do anything about it.  If I see a busted light on a "moving" car then I can either write a fix-it-ticket for "defective equipment" 

OR

I can write a ticket for "Fail to maintain equipment" which is a moving violation- depends on my mood.

There are fines for both- but with the R&R ticket if you fix it it's waivable if you don't there's a fine.  The FME ticket has fines and points if you fix it or don't.

and then if you don't have the proper tread depth you get a "defective tires" ticket which is the same thing as a FME ticket it's just got it's own section numbers.

[rohan]

I agree with annual inspections and also like dsred's idea of using this as a compliance tool instead of a revenue generator. 

But his idea once again would cost time and money for already overstretched police departments.  It may be a great idea but where's themoney going to come from to train and certify officers to perform these inspections?  I'm just guessing but in most states officers can't do anything unless they've been trained for that specific task if it's not already covered as part of the basic police academy. 

[rohan]

He could slam into you without having worn tires. Hard compound tires don't stick any better in the wet, even with good tread.

An example: my RX7 with nearly new BF Goodrich Comp T/As woudl spin the tires easily in the rain, and was slippery to drive in the wet. With the "visibly bald" A008 RSIIs on it, it woudl NOT spin the tires and woudl launch and stil pull over .8Gs in the wet. A much softer compound that heated up even in the rain and squeegeed the water out. But which one would the general public and these tire cameras think were bald and unsafe in the rain?

You keep talking about this sqeegee effect but if it's so good why do race cars either stop in rain or switch to treaded rain tires? 

[rohan]

You could argue that a vehicle is harder to control in the rain/snow with less tread depth, but that's kind of a slippery slope. There's no laws currently requiring snow tires, 4WD, etc. in Michigan.

You don't have to argue it- it's fact in the snow and pretty much true in rain- well atleast deep water type rain. 

Why should I care if someone is running on worn tires in the middle of July when you can "run whatcha brung" in the winter?

Two words- heat dissipation- because tires made to run on the tread heat up well over intended amounts when they run on the core materials because street tires aren't meant to run bald.  they're also more likely to have a rapid flat at highway speed.

[rohan]

That's people's mentality today.  If they can't stop, it must be the brakes.  Nobody ever think about the only thing that's keeping them on the road is 4 small patches no bigger than a letter sized paper. 

Actually - it's half of a letter sized piece of paper if they're anywhere near proper inflation.  Remember when you start spinning a tire it gets taller and narrower.

[ChrisV]

You keep talking about this sqeegee effect but if it's so good why do race cars either stop in rain or switch to treaded rain tires? 

Because race cars are going faster than legal speeds. In order to make the squeegee effect go away, you have to be going MUCH faster than teh posted limits. So on the STREET, it is a real effect.

Not hard to figure out, my friend.

How much rain experience do YOU have on DOT legal race tires? (which, BTW, DO have tread patterns, just very minimal ones)

Actually - it's half of a letter sized piece of paper if they're anywhere near proper inflation.  Remember when you start spinning a tire it gets taller and narrower.

You've been watching too many top fuel drag cars take off. Street and road race tires don't balloon up any measurable amount at anywhere NEAR highway speeds at proper inflation.

[rohan]

Because race cars are going faster than legal speeds. In order to make the squeegee effect go away, you have to be going MUCH faster than teh posted limits. So on the STREET, it is a real effect.

Not hard to figure out, my friend.

How much rain experience do YOU have on DOT legal race tires? (which, BTW, DO have tread patterns, just very minimal ones)

You've been watching too many top fuel drag cars take off. Street and road race tires don't balloon up any measurable amount at anywhere NEAR highway speeds at proper inflation.

You're right- I have no knowledge on tire behavior.    Apparently - race tires are unaffected by simple laws of physics then.    Never said they balloon up like top fuel dragsters- but nice using themost extreme example you could think of.  They do grow taller and narrower as they go faster- 2000 rpms has a tendancy to do that.  Teh normal passenger car street tire only has a contact patch of about 1/2 the width of a sheet of paper- take that to the bank.  And Sticky or not no sipes means water builds up under the tires adn lifts the tires off the ground creating cusion of water and a  condition most call "hydroplaning" especially in deeper water (more than an inch)- not to hard to figure out my friend. 

[MX793]

They do grow taller and narrower as they go faster- 2000 rpms has a tendancy to do that.   

Do you know how fast a car shod in typical sized tires would be going if the tires were spinning at 2000 RPM?

[giant_mtb]

I just don't see the need for this period.

You could argue that a vehicle is harder to control in the rain/snow with less tread depth, but that's kind of a slippery slope. There's no laws currently requiring snow tires, 4WD, etc. in Michigan.

Why should I care if someone is running on worn tires in the middle of July when you can "run whatcha brung" in the winter?

But there're laws prohibiting studded tires.    That I never understood.

[rohan]

Do you know how fast a car shod in typical sized tires would be going if the tires were spinning at 2000 RPM?

Actually I was thinking in engine terms- you know like at 60-70mph. 

[MX793]

Actually I was thinking in engine terms- you know like at 60-70mph. 

But the effects of centripetal acceleration making tires taller and narrower at speed depend on tire RPM, not engine RPM.

[rohan]

But the effects of centripetal acceleration making tires taller and narrower at speed depend on tire RPM, not engine RPM.

Understood - I'm saying i was thinking in terms of engine rpms when I wrote 2000rpms- I'm saying I should have picked a better way to write it.

[Byteme]

But his idea once again would cost time and money for already overstretched police departments.  It may be a great idea but where's themoney going to come from to train and certify officers to perform these inspections?  I'm just guessing but in most states officers can't do anything unless they've been trained for that specific task if it's not already covered as part of the basic police academy. 

Police officers do the state vehicle inspections in your state?

[Byteme]

Actually I was thinking in engine terms- you know like at 60-70mph. 

At 60 the typlcal tire is turning around 700-800 RPM, depending on the rolling diameter of course.

[Galaxy]

European Union regulations authorize the imposition of a 100 Euro (US $160) ticket whenever the tread depth of one of a vehicle's four tires measures less than 1.6mm (0.06 inches).

The EU does not regulate traffic fines. That is entirely up to the individual nations.

They do regulate certain industrial standards (emissions, head lights etc) so that companies only have to certify products once instead of in each country.

[Galaxy]

Then those are streetable, because they have the recommended depth of tread, in the legally required tread grooves. I drove quite a bit on tires very similar to those (made by Yokahama) and they worked better in the rain than my all season tires with a lot of "regular" tread. Why? because rubber compound is as or more important for grip, even in the rain. Soft rubber wears out faster, but it warms up and sticks and acts like a squeegee in the wet, whereas harder rubber tends to slide around on wet surfaces, even if there's good siping to evacuate the water.

Agreed.

Tires such as the ones pictured will be much, much more prone to aquaplaning then a regular tire. The grip a tire produces is irrelevant if water lifts it off the road.

[hounddog]

But there're laws prohibiting studded tires.    That I never understood.

Studded tires have the capacity to severely damage the road surface, requiring far more frequent and costly repair.

[hounddog]

Police officers do the state vehicle inspections in your state?

Yes, they do.  And, only police officers are by statute allowed to "green sheet" (a green inspection sheet used here to determine if the vehicle is safe and roadworthy) vehicles.   

[Soup DeVille]

Do you know how fast a car shod in typical sized tires would be going if the tires were spinning at 2000 RPM?

Because i can't ever pass up an opportunity to break out the pocket calculator- assuming a more-or-less normal 25 inch diameter tire (app. a 225/65-R15), 2000 RPM would yield 148.75 MPh.

Without accounting for diameter growth at speed.

[Byteme]

Yes, they do.  And, only police officers are by statute allowed to "green sheet" (a green inspection sheet used here to determine if the vehicle is safe and roadworthy) vehicles.   

Down here, Texas, there are state licensed facilities;gas stations, repair shops, etc. who do the state vehicle insopections. You have to show proof of insurance before your car gets inspected.  That doesn't mean much since they just look at the insurance card, check the dates of coverage, and then inspect.  Insurance cards can be easily faked.

If the car is less than 25 years old it gets a emissions check as well.  If it fails the emissions or safety check you don't get a sticker.  An inspection, both safety and emissions, costs about $40; about $13 if the car doesn't require the emissions test.

You pass, the place a sticker on your windscreen.  The cops don't see a sticker they can pull you over and ticket you for not having a current inspection.

I thought most states did this.

[ChrisV]

Tires such as the ones pictured will be much, much more prone to aquaplaning then a regular tire. The grip a tire produces is irrelevant if water lifts it off the road.

So you've used them in the rain like I have?

[ChrisV]

Down here, Texas, there are state licensed facilities;gas stations, repair shops, etc. who do the state vehicle insopections. You have to show proof of insurance before your car gets inspected.  That doesn't mean much since they just look at the insurance card, check the dates of coverage, and then inspect.  Insurance cards can be easily faked.

If the car is less than 25 years old it gets a emissions check as well.  If it fails the emissions or safety check you don't get a sticker.  An inspection, both safety and emissions, costs about $40; about $13 if the car doesn't require the emissions test.

You pass, the place a sticker on your windscreen.  The cops don't see a sticker they can pull you over and ticket you for not having a current inspection.

I thought most states did this.

Washington state has no safety inspection. The inspection here in MD only happens when a car is bought, not annually, and there is no sticker. And once a car is over 25 years old, it qualifies for historic plates, which don't require an inspection, either.

Interesting that the cars in most states most likely to be old and worn out are the ones that aren't required to have an inspection...

[GoCougs]

Washington state does have safety inspections however for vehicles bought out of state (performed by the State Patrol).

[Byteme]

Washington state has no safety inspection. The inspection here in MD only happens when a car is bought, not annually, and there is no sticker. And once a car is over 25 years old, it qualifies for historic plates, which don't require an inspection, either.

Interesting that the cars in most states most likely to be old and worn out are the ones that aren't required to have an inspection...

Down here cars with "Antique Auto" plates are exempt from the annual inspection process.  But cars with those plates also have restrictions on how the car can be used, parades, car shows exhibition only.  One can pay 15 more than normal registration and get a plate that says "Classic Car", but other than that being printed on the plate there is no advantage.

[ChrisV]

Washington state does have safety inspections however for vehicles bought out of state (performed by the State Patrol).

Actually, the "safety inspection" in WA checks a very small number of things. Mainly it checks to see that the car and its parts are not stolen. It also checks basics like lighting and cracked windsheild. It does NOT look at rust, exhaust system integrity, or rubber bushings/brakes/wipers, or lights on the dash. I've been through their "inspection" dozens of times on cars I was bringing in from out of state, kit cars, and on cars that were issued salvage titles previously.