Timing belt and tune-up

[BimmerM3]

Okay so I'm about to hit 105,000 miles, which is timing belt time. I've never done a timing belt before, but I'm not about to pay some ridiculous amount of money for a shop to do it, so here I am asking for help. So, here we go. I appologize ahead of time, but some of these will probably be stupid questions. I do plan on buying a Haynes manual since I seem to have lost my Chilton's CD again, but let me know if some of my questions will be answered in the Haynes.

This is what the owner's manual recommends that I do:

-Replace timing belt, balancer belt, and inspect water pump (what does inspect water pump mean?)
-Replace coolant
-Check idle speed
-inspect valve clearance (can I even do that without special tools?)
-Replace engine oil (duh)
-Rotate tires (duh)
-Replace engine oil filter (duh)
-inspect front and rear brakes (I can handle that)
-Check parking brake adjustment (could maybe use some help here)
-Inspect tie rod ends, steering gear box, and boots (what do I look for here?)
-Inspect suspension components (again, what to look for?)
-Inspect driveshaft boots (hey I can handle that)
-Inspect brake hoses and lines (just make sure they aren't cracking?)
-Check all fluid levles, condition of fluids, and check for leaks
-Inspect cooling system hoses and connections (just for cracked hoses and that they're on good?)
-Inspect exhaust system (what do I need to look for?)
-Inspect fuel lines and connections (again, just look for cracks and stuff?)

In addition, I'm a bad car owner so I'm overdue for some other things:

-Transmission fluid (I can handle that)
-Brake fluid (never done this before, but I bought a brake bleed kit for the E21 that I never got around to using since the E21 doesn't run at the moment... I should be able to use that, yeah?)
-Air filter (duh)
-Spark plugs (duh)
-Cabin filter (duh)

I guess my biggest questions are where can I buy all this crap and which brands should I use? I plan on buying Redline MTL for the transmission fluid, but other than that, I'm not really sure what to get. Also, is there anything else that you guys can think of that I should do? Spark plug wires? How do I test those to make sure they're good?

Alright, I guess that covers it...

[Soup DeVille]

The timing belt is the big thing in all of that. You'll need to either get someone from one of the myriad Honda boards to post the complete procedure or buy a copmplete Helm's manual for the specific engine. It's a relatively involved project if you've enver done it before. It can be done, but I would absolutely adhere to the official procedure. You will probably need to buy a couple of tools to degree the cams in and to rotate the cams manually.

The valve lash adjustment requires a pair of small wrenches- probably  5mm, and a set of feeler gauges. Again, you'll have to refer to a shop manual to find the clearance spec.

[The Pirate]

The other thing I would say is don't even bother with inspecting the water pump.  Just replace it.  It's a reasonably priced part, and you have easy access when you change the timing belt.  Shame for the water pump to shit the bed in 5K miles and you have to rip everything apart again.

[AutobahnSHO]

-Replace timing belt, balancer belt, and inspect water pump (what does inspect water pump mean?)

Means look at it and see if it's broken. (or actually you could pull it apart and see if it is worn, and replace if so. I totally agree with the Pirate.

-Replace coolant

Do this AFTER changing the waterpump! (Since you'd drain it anyways.)

-Check idle speed
-inspect valve clearance (can I even do that without special tools?)

Yes, but you have to buy a spacer tool probably. It means taking the valve cover(s?) off and checking as you turn the engine. Not a hard task, but much more involved than changing your oil. Don't forget to get valve cover gaskets (if needed) or you'll have leaks afterwards.

-Replace engine oil (duh)
-Rotate tires (duh)
-Replace engine oil filter (duh)
-inspect front and rear brakes (I can handle that)
-Check parking brake adjustment (could maybe use some help here)

This goes with checking the brakes. You should check it before you take anything apart, to see if it needs tightening. The parking brake is USUALLY a mechanical cable-type brake in the rear, in addition to the regular rear brake system. Inspect everything, lube the cable.

-Inspect tie rod ends, steering gear box, and boots (what do I look for here?)

You check if the tie rod ends move at all. Have someone wiggle the steering wheel while you push against the front wheels (independently) to see if the thing on the end of the steering shafts (called the tie rods) move at all.
Inspect the boots carefully- they shouldn't show any tears or rips. (replace immediately if there are any.)

-Inspect suspension components (again, what to look for?)

Look for leaks, worn rubber, etc...

-Inspect driveshaft boots (hey I can handle that)

Same as CV boots??!

-Inspect brake hoses and lines (just make sure they aren't cracking?)

Yup. Look for wear where they might be rubbing against something- check the metal lines aren't damaged or worn.

-Check all fluid levles, condition of fluids, and check for leaks
-Inspect cooling system hoses and connections (just for cracked hoses and that they're on good?)

Yes, and for leaks and when you drain the fluid watch to see if there's crap in it.

-Inspect exhaust system (what do I need to look for?)

Broken stuff.   :-)

-Inspect fuel lines and connections (again, just look for cracks and stuff?)

Yes.

And spark plug wires are cheap enough you should replace them (eventually if not now) if they're original.

Really you could do all the work you're able to- THEN take it to a shop and pay them (hopefully under $100?) to look everything over thoroughly. They might say you need to replace stuff and you will already know what you already replaced. But they might see stuff you missed.

Alternatively you could do all the "lower engine" stuff (waterpump, belts, steering/ suspension/ filters/ cv boots, yada,) and pay them to crack open the top and check the valves.

Keep in mind also everytime you tear an older car apart the stuff that was "just fine" gets bumped around and so unrelated random parts might fail and need replacing soon, so keep a budget for that.

You don't HAVE to do all the work at once but some of it is easier if you do it together- ie if you have to take stuff out of the way to do the valves check replace the stuff on your list that is nearby then.

Devote yourself plenty of time, keep all your pieces somewhere safe, and if you can, get someone that knows what they're doing to help!!

good luck-

[BimmerM3]

The timing belt is the big thing in all of that. You'll need to either get someone from one of the myriad Honda boards to post the complete procedure or buy a copmplete Helm's manual for the specific engine. It's a relatively involved project if you've enver done it before. It can be done, but I would absolutely adhere to the official procedure. You will probably need to buy a couple of tools to degree the cams in and to rotate the cams manually.

The valve lash adjustment requires a pair of small wrenches- probably  5mm, and a set of feeler gauges. Again, you'll have to refer to a shop manual to find the clearance spec.

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?class_2=AHM&mk=Honda&yr=1999&md=Accord&dt=Shop%2FService+Information&module=&from=result&Style=&Sku=61S8400&itemtype=N&mscsid=KX4UQGSRECAB9J4QHC2F3JEMMFC922XF

Is that what I need? Would that provide a real advantage over a Haynes manual?

[Soup DeVille]

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?class_2=AHM&mk=Honda&yr=1999&md=Accord&dt=Shop%2FService+Information&module=&from=result&Style=&Sku=61S8400&itemtype=N&mscsid=KX4UQGSRECAB9J4QHC2F3JEMMFC922XF

Is that what I need? Would that provide a real advantage over a Haynes manual?

Yes and yes.

[S204STi]

(what does inspect water pump mean?)

Most water pumps have a weep hole through which coolant can escape if the shaft seal fails.  Not sure why they would even make allowance for a leak, but oh well.  Also quite frequently there is corrosion around the areas where the pump mates with the block.  If either case if found it is a good idea to replace the pump.

Even saying that, there is no reason (in fact, it is just plain dumb) not to replace the water pump while you are already in there.

[TBR]

"Inspect the boots carefully- they shouldn't show any tears or rips. (replace immediately if there are any.)"
I just took my car in to have a general inspection and all 4 boots were ripped, the advisor said not to worry about it, the cost to replace the boots would be about the same as replacing the tie rod ends themselves and that more likely than not the damage has already been done.

"Even saying that, there is no reason (in fact, it is just plain dumb) not to replace the water pump while you are already in there."

Other than the fact the water pump will far out last the timing belt and replacing it doubles the cost of the job. I didn't have the pump replaced when I had my timing belt done and I don't feel the least bit dumb about it.

[Danish]

Other than the fact the water pump will far out last the timing belt and replacing it doubles the cost of the job. I didn't have the pump replaced when I had my timing belt done and I don't feel the least bit dumb about it.

It wouldn't double the cost of the job because most of the work involved with removing enough stuff to actually be able to replace the water pump would already be done.

The only extra cost would be the price of the actual pump (about $50), most of the labor would have already been done.

[TBR]

Maybe my mechanic was stiffing me (though sense I paid $220 for the t-belt as opposed to the $600 Adam paid for his t-belt plus water pump) but he said that it would cost me an extra $200 to have the water pump done.

[BimmerM3]

Where should I go to buy all this crap? Just walk into Advance and tell them what I need, or would I be better off buying online? Anyone know any good online retailers for this kind of thing?

[The Pirate]

Where should I go to buy all this crap? Just walk into Advance and tell them what I need, or would I be better off buying online? Anyone know any good online retailers for this kind of thing?

http://www.rockauto.com

You can get several different grades of parts, from the super cheap stuff right up through OEM level.  I've been happy with NAPA parts as well.  I'd steer clear of Advance and the like.

[AutobahnSHO]

Maybe my mechanic was stiffing me (though sense I paid $220 for the t-belt as opposed to the $600 Adam paid for his t-belt plus water pump) but he said that it would cost me an extra $200 to have the water pump done.

That's because he was adding the labor from start to finish then. Really if you have stuff torn apart already it would take an extra 15minutes to drain the coolant, take old pump off, put new one on.

I'd just replace it on a 105k mile vehicle, along with new coolant.

[The Pirate]

That's because he was adding the labor from start to finish then. Really if you have stuff torn apart already it would take an extra 15minutes to drain the coolant, take old pump off, put new one on.

I'd just replace it on a 105k mile vehicle, along with new coolant.

It's a $54 part on rockauto.com (that's for an OEM one, you could go cheaper if you wanted); for that price it's really a no-brainer.

[BimmerM3]

http://www.rockauto.com

You can get several different grades of parts, from the super cheap stuff right up through OEM level.  I've been happy with NAPA parts as well.  I'd steer clear of Advance and the like.

I'll check out that site. The NAPA in my area sucks. I live in too rich of an area for people to work on their own cars very much, so we get the shaft when it comes to parts stores.

That's because he was adding the labor from start to finish then. Really if you have stuff torn apart already it would take an extra 15minutes to drain the coolant, take old pump off, put new one on.

I'd just replace it on a 105k mile vehicle, along with new coolant.

I was going to change out the coolant anyway, so I'll just get a new water pump.

Another question: are there any particular brands that I should be getting for all my replacement stuff? I figure Bosch Platinum spark plugs and Redline MTL transmission fluid, but what about wires, filters, coolant, brake fluid, etc?

[The Pirate]

I've either used Purolator or Honda filters with good results.  And go with NGK for the plugs and wires.  I've always been happy with NGK, and that's the consensus on all the Honda forums (and not just from the rices, that's from the posters who know their stuff).

[AutobahnSHO]

Another question: are there any particular brands that I should be getting for all my replacement stuff? I figure Bosch Platinum spark plugs and Redline MTL transmission fluid, but what about wires, filters, coolant, brake fluid, etc?

More expensive doesn't always mean better- ie Bosch Platinums reportedly don't work well at all on the SHO..

See if you can find a respectable chat board about your specific car, that's usually the most helpful.

[S204STi]

Other than the fact the water pump will far out last the timing belt and replacing it doubles the cost of the job. I didn't have the pump replaced when I had my timing belt done and I don't feel the least bit dumb about it.

I don't know if you know what you're talking about, but in my world water pumps are woefully undependable.  You should feel a bit dumb about it.   Just kidding around there, but I stand by my statement.

[S204STi]

More expensive doesn't always mean better- ie Bosch Platinums reportedly don't work well at all on the SHO..

Bosch platinums don't work well at all in anything other than a car that was designed to use them in the first place.  I can't think of one at this time, likely something german.

[r0tor]

silly people with their timing belts and valves to change/check

and yes, put on a new waterpump...

[r0tor]

Get NGK spark plugs...

[S204STi]

Get NGK spark plugs...

+1

[AutobahnSHO]

silly people with their timing belts and valves to change/check

You're just jealous...

[Middle_Path]

http://www.rockauto.com

You can get several different grades of parts, from the super cheap stuff right up through OEM level....

I've had good success with rockauto.com. I too recommend getting parts through them.

[Secret Chimp]

Valve clearance is a bitch tit to do on F engines. If you don't have any ticking noises or excessive valve noise after the car warms up, leave it alone.

[280Z Turbo]

Wix oil filters seem to be the best from what I've seen, although anything other than a Fram is also pretty good.

[Secret Chimp]

Wix oil filters seem to be the best from what I've seen, although anything other than a Fram is also pretty good.

NAPA filters are Wix filters, right?
I seem to remember a lot of good brands being rebranded for NAPA for many different parts.

[MaxPower]

I've had good success with rockauto.com. I too recommend getting parts through them.

I recently used Rock Auto and didn't have success.  They boxed and sent the wrong part (I double checked--I ordered the right part) and while they did admit to the mistake they wouldn't send the correct part any faster than ground, the slowest shipping method, which took five days to get to me.  The shipping and lack of customer care was what angered me most--the car, which was needed on the road, had to sit in the garage for another five days because they screwed up.

[S204STi]

NAPA filters are Wix filters, right?
I seem to remember a lot of good brands being rebranded for NAPA for many different parts.

Yes, NAPA Gold filters are made by Wix.

Generally speaking, NAPA is a great alternative to anything OEM, and it's what we use almost exclusively if we need something from the aftermarket.

[sportyaccordy]

Honestly, would it really even be worth the time? Between the day in the hot sun and the money you will spend on tools... I dunno. You can get a forum expert to help you out for well under what a shop would charge.