ZR1 vs. Viper ACR

[SVT666]

It's well known that any design shared with a truck engine will make the car 64.2% worse.

Trucky water jackets and oil passages decrease handling and throttle response.

[Soup DeVille]

No they didn't.  The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design.  That was it.  Nothing else.  How hard is this to understand?  That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.

It does.

(and I was talking of the SRT-10 Ram anyways...)

[280Z Turbo]

No they didn't.  The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design.  That was it.  Nothing else.  How hard is this to understand?  That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.

[GoCougs]

Uh, the top-end 6.2L used in GM trucks and SUVs and the and Vette/Camaro 6.2L are petty darn close in design.

The differences between the first-gen Viper V10 and Magnum V10 (trucks) was a heck of a lot more, but there was a fair bit of commonality - enough to call that first-gen Viper V10 a "truck engine"? Meh - sure, but it's a stretch. But since the Magnum V10 is long gone, and the new 600hp Viper V10 is a completely different animal in every regard, it doesn't apply to the current gen.

[giant_mtb]

Who cares if it's a "truck engine"?  That engine powers one of the fastest, most known supercars in the world.  Apparently that "truck engine" does something right. 

[giant_mtb]

Well, with a decent set of snow tires...

Please don't tell me that you honestly think it would be drivable in the winter with simply a good set of snow tires. Doesn't the Viper not have TC?! 

[SVT_Power]

No they didn't.  The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design.  That was it.  Nothing else.  How hard is this to understand?  That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.

I thought the Ram SRT-10 and the Viper shared the engine?

[SVT666]

I thought the Ram SRT-10 and the Viper shared the engine?

I wasn't thinking of the SRT-10 version.  I was thinking of the standard Ram with the V10.  But in case anyone is a little confused, the Viper engine was put into a Ram SRT-10, not the other way around.

[TBR]

Which is exactly what soup said...

[CALL_911]

Gimme the ACR.

[Soup DeVille]

Please don't tell me that you honestly think it would be drivable in the winter with simply a good set of snow tires. Doesn't the Viper not have TC?! 

Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.

[r0tor]

ACR because it has a roll cage so they will actually allow you to go on the track with it...

[280Z Turbo]

Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.

You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.

[Soup DeVille]

You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.

Probably.

[GoCougs]

You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.

With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.

[SVT666]

With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.

I've heard that it's possible in the new 600 hp version.

[Soup DeVille]

With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.

I can start out in fifth on my puny little four banger Honda with its earth shattering 130ish pounding little feet, I doubt doing a similar stunt on the Viper would be much of a problem.

[GoCougs]

I can start out in fifth on my puny little four banger Honda with its earth shattering 130ish pounding little feet, I doubt doing a similar stunt on the Viper would be much of a problem.

The Viper has 0.50:1 6th gear and a 3.07:1 axle, which equates to about 1,000 RPM at 50 mph (I challenge anyone to find any car with a taller top gear final drive ratio). Not without frying the clutch would you get that thing to start.

[Soup DeVille]

The Viper has 0.50:1 6th gear and a 3.07:1 axle, which equates to about 1,000 RPM at 50 mph (I challenge anyone to find any car with a taller top gear final drive ratio). Not without frying the clutch would you get that thing to start.

You underestimate the amount of abuse a typical clutch can take.

[JYODER240]

Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.

It would definently be possible except when the snow gets more than 3" deep and the car begins to lift off the road.

[GoCougs]

You underestimate the amount of abuse a typical clutch can take.

Anytime one gets burnt smell or slippage one is frying the clutch, and with that much power, that tall of a final drive ratio and that much weight, yeah, you'll get that on the first attempt I'd bet.

[Soup DeVille]

Anytime one gets burnt smell or slippage one is frying the clutch, and with that much power, that tall of a final drive ratio and that much weight, yeah, you'll get that on the first attempt I'd bet.

What, you think you do that with the throttle pinned? No, it's done just off idle. Unfortunately, I don't have an ACR Viper sitting around to prove it to you, but try the same thing on nearly any car made today, and if you take any time to take care with what you're doing, you can do the same thing, without drama.

[SVT666]

What, you think you do that with the throttle pinned? No, it's done just off idle. Unfortunately, I don't have an ACR Viper sitting around to prove it to you, but try the same thing on nearly any car made today, and if you take any time to take care with what you're doing, you can do the same thing, without drama.

I just did it in 5th gear my SVT Focus.  I stuck it in 5th gear (I have 6 gears, but it's a 4 banger with little torque) and I feathered the gas while slowly and gradually letting the clutch out.  It took a while to get moving but I did it.  There was no clutch smell and the engine was never over 1000 rpm until I let it all the way out. 

GoCougs, if you think that you would burn out the clutch on a Viper doing that on 1 attempt, then all I can say is, you're wrong.  Clutched are pretty damn tough these days, and a high performance clutch like the one in the Viper is gonna take a bigger shit kicking then you or I could ever throw at it.

[JYODER240]

I've started out in 5th in a LS2 GTO before. Apparantly it's possibly in a 350Z as well because someone at work thought they were in reverse but were it 6th and somehow drove it off a cement pad. I don't know how you mess that up but they did.

[sportyaccordy]

I have started out my Maxima in 3rd gear in traffic (broken tranny locked me out of 1st & 2nd)

I imagine with 3x the torque you could get the Viper rolling in the 6th no problem.

[GoCougs]

Hello - 0.50:1 top gear, 3.07:1 rear axle and a 345/35-19 drive tire???

I could destroy a Viper clutch in minutes if I had the mind to.

[SVT666]

Hello - 0.50:1 top gear, 3.07:1 rear axle and a 345/35-19 drive tire???

I could destroy a Viper clutch in minutes if I had the mind to.

Maybe, if you had it redlined while slipping the clutch, but that's not how you would do it.  Most (85% I believe) of the Viper's 600 ft-lbs of torque is available just off idle.

[GoCougs]

Maybe, if you had it redlined while slipping the clutch, but that's not how you would do it.  Most (85% I believe) of the Viper's 600 ft-lbs of torque is available just off idle.

"Just off idle" (~1,000 RPM) in Viper speak is about 55 mph in 6th gear.

"Idle" (~ 750 RPM) in Viper speak is about 40 mph in 6th gear.

That is some seriously, seriously, seriously tall gearing (just about the tallest there is in a production car as best I can tell), so I'd think again if you believe that the clutch won't take a beating in trying to start it in 6th - at best you'll have to slip the clutch until the car reaches 40 mph!

[Cookie Monster]

GT3 for me please. The ZR1 looks pretty dumb and I hear the  ACR fries your legs as you get out.

[giant_mtb]

"Just off idle" (~1,000 RPM) in Viper speak is about 55 mph in 6th gear.

"Idle" (~ 750 RPM) in Viper speak is about 40 mph in 6th gear.

That is some seriously, seriously, seriously tall gearing (just about the tallest there is in a production car as best I can tell), so I'd think again if you believe that the clutch won't take a beating in trying to start it in 6th - at best you'll have to slip the clutch until the car reaches 40 mph!

But...the modern clutches!  They can take abuse!  I mean...it won't mess it up if you slip it until you hit 40 MPH?!?!?!?!?!