IFCAR Comparison: 7-passenger family vehicles

[ifcar]

I think you tend to forget that few buyers are as purely logical and/or practical with their vehicle purchases as you seem to be.  The "emotional factor" is a huge part of why SUV's surged in populalrity over the minivan.  SUVs are just...well..."cooler" than minivans.  Didn't you know it's all about image, Iffy?  

Let's say, hypothetically, that I did think the SUV image was important. How would I incorporate that into the comparison?

What it says is that minivans are better family cars than SUVs. It's true. Someone can say 'yeah, I recognize that an SUV is the inferior vehicle to carry my family, but I want it for its image,' but I don't think it's my place to cater to that attitude. It gives the mistaken impression that a car-based SUV is the equivalent family vehicle to a minivan, when they generally have two thirds of a minivan's interior space at best.

[Eye of the Tiger]

SUV's are more fun to drive.

[ifcar]

SUV's are more fun to drive.

Drive a Pilot then an Odyssey and report back.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Drive a Pilot then an Odyssey and report back.

SUV's are more fun to drive.

[USA_Idol]

Let's say, hypothetically, that I did think the SUV image was important. How would I incorporate that into the comparison?

I was pointing out that there are too many people that are too self-concious about what they drive.  I didn't mean to suggest that you should somehow incorporate that into your review.

What it says is that minivans are better family cars than SUVs. It's true. Someone can say 'yeah, I recognize that an SUV is the inferior vehicle to carry my family, but I want it for its image,' but I don't think it's my place to cater to that attitude. It gives the mistaken impression that a car-based SUV is the equivalent family vehicle to a minivan, when they generally have two thirds of a minivan's interior space at best.

The minivan is not a one-size-fits-all solution for every family that needs a seven-seat vehicle.  Sorry, but I just don't see it. 

[Raza]

But SUVs look so much better!

[ifcar]

The minivan is not a one-size-fits-all solution for every family that needs a seven-seat vehicle.  Sorry, but I just don't see it. 

That's true. As I mentioned in the review, some people want AWD/4WD or towing, and specifics of certain vehicles may make one SUV a better choice than the market's minivans.

But there is nothing about the design of an SUV that makes it a better family car for someone who's just outgrowing a sedan than a minivan.

[Eye of the Tiger]

SUV's are more involving. You have to pay close attention so you don't skip off the road and flip over just because you hit a pothole mid-turn. A minivan would just roll onto the bumpstops and the worst part would be spilling your coffee.

[USA_Idol]

That's true. As I mentioned in the review, some people want AWD/4WD or towing, and specifics of certain vehicles may make one SUV a better choice than the market's minivans.

But there is nothing about the design of an SUV that makes it a better family car for someone who's just outgrowing a sedan than a minivan.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but that has basically been my point all along.  We are finally in agreement, then.     OMG. Did that actually just happen?   

[USA_Idol]

SUV's are more involving. You have to pay close attention so you don't skip off the road and flip over just because you hit a pothole mid-turn. A minivan would just roll onto the bumpstops and the worst part would be spilling your coffee.

Coffee.........now you made me want a Starbucks.    

[ifcar]

SUV's are more involving. You have to pay close attention so you don't skip off the road and flip over just because you hit a pothole mid-turn. A minivan would just roll onto the bumpstops and the worst part would be spilling your coffee.

The most popular SUVs today are just boxier, more poorly-packaged minivans. They're not going to roll over either.

[ifcar]

Maybe I wasn't clear, but that has basically been my point all along.  We are finally in agreement, then.     OMG. Did that actually just happen?  

I said it first, so I blame you for being confusing.

[USA_Idol]

I said it first, so I blame you for being confusing.

I am always confused.   

[Eye of the Tiger]

The most popular SUVs today are just boxier, more poorly-packaged minivans. They're not going to roll over either.

In the context I was speaking, to be considered an SUV, the vehicle must have at least 11-inches of ground clearance, a maximum 80-inch wheelbase, and minimum 35-inch bead-locked bias-ply off road tires.

[Soup DeVille]

It's a comparison of "seven-passenger family cars." It's pretty clear that when, in context of the comparison, I say one car is better than another, I mean "as a seven-passenger family car."

And yes, someone might fit into an SUV fine. But what's the benefit? Minivans have more space, but not one inherent design disadvantage for the use described in the comparison. Of course what someone buys comes down to personal choice, but choosing something doesn't make it the best.

I think what we're looking at here is an excess of practicality. That is, that many of these vehicles exceed the capabilities that most buyers require of it, and are thus minor distinctions in cargo or passenger space are relatively inconsequential.

[ifcar]

I think what we're looking at here is an excess of practicality. That is, that many of these vehicles exceed the capabilities that most buyers require of it, and are thus minor distinctions in cargo or passenger space are relatively inconsequential.

It's not minor.

You get practically as much space behind the third row of a minivan than behind the middle row of many of this comparison's SUVs. The difference of being able to carry five or seven people with that much cargo isn't a tiny detail. The difference is much bigger than most people seem to realize, particularly as SUV third-row comfort has improved (though not to minivan level).

But how much can you fit behind the third row? Not luggage for your passengers. In almost any SUV, you need to fold down the third row to carry almost anything, which gives you a five rather than seven-passenger vehicle. That's a key difference for someone who's bought vehicle as a seven-passenger family car.

[Soup DeVille]

It's not minor.

You get practically as much space behind the third row of a minivan than behind the middle row of many of this comparison's SUVs. The difference of being able to carry five or seven people with that much cargo isn't a tiny detail. The difference is much bigger than most people seem to realize, particularly as SUV third-row comfort has improved (though not to minivan level).

But how much can you fit behind the third row? Not luggage for your passengers. In almost any SUV, you need to fold down the third row to carry almost anything, which gives you a five rather than seven-passenger vehicle. That's a key difference for someone who's bought vehicle as a seven-passenger family car.

For many of the buyers who have chosen an SUV over a minivan and have families, apparently it is.

And yes, I've seen them before, thanks for the description.

[ifcar]

For many of the buyers who have chosen an SUV over a minivan and have families, apparently it is.

And yes, I've seen them before, thanks for the description.

As I said, I don't think people understand the difference in interior space between a minivan and crossover or large SUV. If you haven't looked, you don't know. Many people won't even look at a minivan.

Just because you buy a vehicle doesn't mean you've bought the best vehicle, obviously. It doesn't mean you've bought one with as much space as you'd like, either.

[SVT666]

There are too many people on here who can't accept the fact that the minivan is the most useful family vehicle on the market.  Any minivan (except the GM vans) is better then any SUV for family duty...unless towing a trailer or large boat (I see minivans towing ski boats all the time) is a priority...and for the vast majority of families, it's not.

[Raza]

I get that it's the most useful family vehicle.  But I'll never own one!

[SVT666]

I get that it's the most useful family vehicle.  But I'll never own one!

I said the same thing.  So did my wife.  Guess what our next vehicle is:  Honda Odyssey.  The sliding doors and the seat height for loading and unloading kids is what won us over.  We've rented minivans on holidays and we always get back home wishing that we had bought one.

[Madman]

Wait until you have two kids, double stroller, playpen, diaper bag, etc. etc.  Having a minivan sure beats putting half that shit on the roof.

I have two kids and my car still has enough room to carry everything we need.  I've considered getting a roofbox for long trips but, so far, we haven't "needed" to get one yet.  BTW, my kids are 10 and 13.  Somehow I think if we haven't outgrown the car by now, we probably never will.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

[SVT666]

I have two kids and my car still has enough room to carry everything we need.  I've considered getting a roofbox for long trips but, so far, we haven't "needed" to get one yet.  BTW, my kids are 10 and 13.  Somehow I think if we haven't outgrown the car by now, we probably never will.

Cheers,
Madman of the People

Read what I wrote again.  I said the need for a minivan will be far less when the kids get older and there is no need to bring along a large double stroller, playpen, diaper bag, etc. etc.  The older they get, ironically, the less room you need.  The older they get, the emphasis is on legroom in the back seat more then anything.  When they are babies and toddlers, the emphasis is only back seat space and moreso on luggage space.  I'll take a picture of our car the next time we go to the mall.

[TBR]

Read what I wrote again.  I said the need for a minivan will be far less when the kids get older and there is no need to bring along a large double stroller, playpen, diaper bag, etc. etc.  The older they get, ironically, the less room you need.  The older they get, the emphasis is on legroom in the back seat more then anything.  When they are babies and toddlers, the emphasis is only back seat space and moreso on luggage space.  I'll take a picture of our car the next time we go to the mall.

You're an ass, you know that?

If Madman has a 10 and 13 year old then one would presume they were the age of your kids at some point so he knows what he is talking about. And, I am 95% certain that he has never owned a minivan or suv (in fact, I think he has had at least the 740 for as long as his kids have been alive).

[the Teuton]

Iffy is a machine distantly related to the Stig, only far more pragmatic.  Some say he has "Baby on board" tattooed on one arm and a soccer ball on the other.  And some say that he chose Jif before the choosy moms even considered it...

All we know is that he's called Ifcar.

[Laconian]

Hemi666 already owns one, obviously he had enough children and bought enough things to fill it up, it's hard to scale down at this point.

[nickdrinkwater]

Iffy is a machine distantly related to the Stig, only far more pragmatic.  Some say he has "Baby on board" tattooed on one arm and a soccer ball on the other.  And some say that he chose Jif before the choosy moms even considered it...

All we know is that he's called Ifcar.

LOL 

[Soup DeVille]

I said the same thing.  So did my wife.  Guess what our next vehicle is:  Honda Odyssey.  The sliding doors and the seat height for loading and unloading kids is what won us over.  We've rented minivans on holidays and we always get back home wishing that we had bought one.

I have a secret longing for an Odyssey too, but I was hoping to turbocharge it.

[Submariner]

I said the same thing.  So did my wife.  Guess what our next vehicle is:  Honda Odyssey.  The sliding doors and the seat height for loading and unloading kids is what won us over.  We've rented minivans on holidays and we always get back home wishing that we had bought one.

That's a good reason not to have kids.

That being said, I want a G500.

[280Z Turbo]

That's a good reason not to have kids.

That being said, I want a G500.

Just because you have kids doesn't mean you need to have a damn playroom on wheels.

My mom drove an '87 Pontiac 6000 when I was a kid. I don't understand the need for more room than that.