Subie Binding Transmission (Updated!)

[AutobahnSHO]

So I did an initial tranny drain/ filter/ fill in July. I put about 7qts in for an 8.3 qt tranny.
The original fluid was very brown.

I mentioned it was binding during turning- R-Inge suggested I flush it a couple more times, I did empty it and put another 6qts in.

Still binding.

Does this post make sense for my situation?
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Subaru-Repair-831/subaru-torque-binding.htm

"Question
I just bought a 1997 Legacy wagon from a friend, and it has a problem when I turn the wheel hard for turns at low speeds (like pulling into a parking space).  The dealer says it is torque binding and will cost over $2000 to fix.  Someone told me I can disengage the AWD by pulling out a fuse and the torque binding will go away.  Is that true?  should I repair the car, trade it in, or remove the fuse? "

"Answer
Both are wrong. The repair should be less then $1000, and you can eliminate the MPT clutches by INSERTING the fuse into the FWD box. Should be located by the wiper motor on the right hand side firewall. Whats happening is the MPT (multi plate transfer) clutches are binding in the rear of the transmission. You will also need to replace the transfer solenoid back there also. Parts should be around $300-400, and labor less then $600. good luck. "

[S204STi]

Let me talk to some guys at a local Subaru independent, because when I had that issue on my 94 they stuck a bottle of some Ford friction modifiers in it, and it really seemed to have an impact.  I can call them on monday and ask what they were using.

It's either that or replacing that transfer clutch, which involves removing the rear of the transmission (not the entire thing as far as I can tell) and rebuilding it.

[AutobahnSHO]

Oh if there's just a lubrication issue I would gladly NOT tear it apart- I usually have more money than time so would have to do it myself..

[S204STi]

Oh if there's just a lubrication issue I would gladly NOT tear it apart- I usually have more money than time so would have to do it myself..

It's actually a mechanical issue; the plates in the clutch pack are too thin and warp with excessive heat.  But sometimes you can overcome that with friction modifiers.

[AutobahnSHO]

Ahhh-

Judging by the color of the original tranny fluid, they definitely baked it.

AND the "Auto Trans Temp" light comes on for about 30seconds every time I start it up, since I did the tranny fluid/filter. I probably bumped the sensor or whatever...

[S204STi]

Ahhh-

Judging by the color of the original tranny fluid, they definitely baked it.

AND the "Auto Trans Temp" light comes on for about 30seconds every time I start it up, since I did the tranny fluid/filter. I probably bumped the sensor or whatever...

That's odd...  I wonder if there isn't a code stored for ATF Over-Temp or something of that nature.

[AutobahnSHO]

That's odd...  I wonder if there isn't a code stored for ATF Over-Temp or something of that nature.

It goes away pretty much as soon as I rev or put it in gear. If I just let it idle it stays on a while.

[S204STi]

Sorry, I forgot to call that subie specialist today.  Hopefully I will remember tomorrow.

[AutobahnSHO]

So I took the Subie in for the A/C and tranny-

They at first said they'd ordered a kit for the tranny, total (w/labor) would be $800.

They Just called and said it's not the valve body they thought, but they can put in a fuse to disable the awd and just make it FWD to get rid of the binding. I told them to go ahead, since I'll put a switch in (in addition to the fuse).  The (service manager?) said it should be fine, since we don't need awd around here, and should make my gas mileage better, too.

Does this make sense?
Thanks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

NEVERMIND,
They called back again and now say that my model doesn't have the device to lock out the awd, they wanted $260 to flush it out ("we bought some expensive system to flush it out really thoroughly- we won't get just 8qts out, we suck all 11 out...") and hope it does better.  OR pay $3300 for a new tranny.

Basically I don't think they know what they're doing, since you HAVE to be able to lock the awd out, or you wouldn't be able to tow it!!!  I'll check the fuse thing out myself- (since i re-read the original posts just now.)

[S204STi]

I completely disagree with what that shop said, but it's your car and your money.  I also wouldn't fiddle with wiring anything up to switch the AWD on and off.  It's not meant to work in FWD mode, that fuse is just there for towing and other situations when you must disable AWD for a short time.

Also, $260 for a tranny flush is highway robbery.  And you don't need a new transmission, so it sounds like this shop is doing you a disservice any way you cut it.

Look, replace the transfer clutch pack and solenoid and you're good. In the meantime find a different set of thieves to give your money to.

[AutobahnSHO]

Look, replace the transfer clutch pack and solenoid and you're good. In the meantime find a different set of thieves to give your money to.

LOL
Is this something a moderately clutzy guy (ie me, who took a few days to do a SHO clutch,) can do?

I'll start looking for real transmission shops, and now I'm wishing I didn't let them do the A/C (for a VERY pretty penny....)

[S204STi]

I wouldn't recommend doing this sort of thing yourself.  Find a Subaru shop to do it. Even a tranny shop might not have a clue.

[AutobahnSHO]

I wouldn't recommend doing this sort of thing yourself.  Find a Subaru shop to do it. Even a tranny shop might not have a clue.

NOT THIS Subaru dealer.
And there aren't a whole lot of them in the south...

[r0tor]

oh god, not another dealer with the super high price tranny fluid flushing machine that 4x more expensive then a regular tranny flush and doesn't even do as good of a job as getting a regular change and then another one a week later...

[S204STi]

oh god, not another dealer with the super high price tranny fluid flushing machine that 4x more expensive then a regular tranny flush and doesn't even do as good of a job as getting a regular change and then another one a week later...

I think we charge like 100 bucks for it... which isn't far from a drain and refill.

[AutobahnSHO]

oh god, not another dealer with the super high price tranny fluid flushing machine that 4x more expensive then a regular tranny flush and doesn't even do as good of a job as getting a regular change and then another one a week later...

Apparently yes.

Some kind of "fluid flush" Salesman knows how to sell these machines- and since the dealer buys into it, they have to make it pay for them, so silly customers end up getting duped..

[sportyaccordy]

What causes binding? Do Subarus get affected by uneven tire wear or is that only in older AWD cars?

[the Teuton]

Go to a Subie enthusiast site or a junkyard.  A new 4EAT shouldn't be more than $300 or so.

[S204STi]

What causes binding? Do Subarus get affected by uneven tire wear or is that only in older AWD cars?

The original clutches and metal shims in the transfer unit are too thin, so they warp if they are ever heated up past a certain point, and then even if the solenoid is working properly it'll bind when turning.  Also, using two different size or excessively worn tires on one axle, or a transfer clutch solenoid that isn't working properly can cause this.

[the Teuton]

Wait, is his Legacy wagon stick?

[S204STi]

Wait, is his Legacy wagon stick?

No.

[AutobahnSHO]

Sorry I'm stuck with a slushie.
It's paid off when the van's been out of commission, since the wife wouldn't be able to manage a stick very well..

The outbacks of the same year had the same motor/tranny, right??

For now I'm just driving it like it is- and being gentle around corners, I don't need to replace more CV joints. (Like when I first got it last June.)