I might be crazy, but this sounds like a good idea

[S204STi]

The outlet of torque is power, but torque is still there whether or not there is power. The torque is applied to both sides equally, but the total amount of torque is limited when a wheel loses traction, and a spinning wheel against the ground has very low traction due to kinetic friction. The same small amount of torque that keeps that spinning wheel spinning, is the same amount of torque being applied to the other wheel. If a traction control system applies brakes to the spinning wheel, then the torque required to spin that wheel increases, and since torque is always equal on both sides of an open diff, the other wheel shares in the increase of torque, allowing it to push the car.

Here's the thing, you have a wrong assumption in that torque is always equal on both sides of the diff.  Torque, like electricity, takes the path of least resistance.  Once one side starts spinning faster 100% of available torque goes to that side.  Add resistance, such as friction, and now you get torque applied to the other side because there is less resistance on that side now.

So, we can say that an open diff has a 50/50 torque split when moving in a straight line and with equal traction between both tires.  In any other situation other variables take charge and that split varies.

What I really need right now is an engineer to hop in and save me if I'm totally off. (MX793*cough*)

[S204STi]

As a demostration, lift a vehicle with a open diff and put it in gear.  Then grab the tire that isn't spinning.  Does it want to rip your arms off?  No, because there is no torque applied to that wheel.

[Soup DeVille]

OK.

Torque is a moment defined as the cross product of force and distance from that force. For the purposes of this discussion, that distance is from the center of the axle to the surface of the.

When the tire is not touch the road zero force can be applied to the road. Therefore, there is no torque.

[S204STi]

Thanks!

That said, I must modify something I said earlier; an open diff will apply equal torque to both wheels when turning corners as well.  Apparently it is only with loss of traction that it changes.

[Eye of the Tiger]

OK.

Torque is a moment defined as the cross product of force and distance from that force. For the purposes of this discussion, that distance is from the center of the axle to the surface of the.

When the tire is not touch the road zero force can be applied to the road. Therefore, there is no torque.

What are you, some kinda engineer? When a tire is not touch the road there is zero torque. Let's say the other wheel is on the ground; an equal amount of zero torque is applied to the other wheel... zero torque does not make a car move... a car with an open diff with one wheel in the air does not move.

eh?

[Soup DeVille]

What are you, some kinda engineer? When a tire is not touch the road there is zero torque. Let's say the other wheel is on the ground; an equal amount of zero torque is applied to the other wheel... zero torque does not make a car move... a car with an open diff with one wheel in the air does not move.

eh?

Yes.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yes.

So, even though I totally suck at explaining it, I was right... except about lock -right differential, which indeed ratchets to allow the outside wheel to spin freely... mmm yes. I want a lock right for my Volvo that I don't have yet.

[Rupert]

NACar has it, as far as I can tell. That's the way it was explained on How Stuff Works.

R-inge, maybe the reason that the non-spinning wheel doesn't move is because there is slightly more friction somewhere with that wheel, and the very small amount of force it takes to get the spinning wheel moving  cannot overcome that small frictional difference... That might jive with the How Stuff Works version.

(Of course, now I'm too late).

[Soup DeVille]

So, even though I totally suck at explaining it, I was right... except about lock -right differential, which indeed ratchets to allow the outside wheel to spin freely... mmm yes. I want a lock right for my Volvo that I don't have yet.

I've made mistakes myself: using torque when I should have been saying power.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I've made mistakes myself: using torque when I should have been saying power.

I never make mistakes.

[Soup DeVille]

I never make mistakes.

Audi V8 Quattro.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Audi V8 Quattro.

That had Quattro AWD and a limited slip in the rear. That was no mistake.

[Rupert]

A clutch LSD effectively brakes the spinning wheel, which means more torque is required to make it move, and since torque is even between the wheels, more torque is applied to the stationary wheel, which should be enough to get it moving. Yes?

[Soup DeVille]

A clutch LSD effectively brakes the spinning wheel, which means more torque is required to make it move, and since torque is even between the wheels, more torque is applied to the stationary wheel, which should be enough to get it moving. Yes?

Yes. That would be a more correct explanation.

[Rupert]

Yeah, a torsen or helical both require some resistance on both wheel to develop a torque bias between the wheels, so if one wheel was in the air it wouldn't work.

A "normal" clutch type LSD relies on the speed difference between the two, so it would.

So I guess I'm back to a normal clutch-type LSD, then. I suppose it's not worth worrying about traction on ice and stuff... I'm a good driver.

[Raza]

Should have kept the MX-5.

[Rupert]

Yes. That would be a more correct explanation.

Awesome. I don't need to understand Torsen and helical diffs.

[Rupert]

Should have kept the MX-5.

STFU

[GoCougs]

A clutch LSD effectively brakes the spinning wheel, which means more torque is required to make it move, and since torque is even between the wheels, more torque is applied to the stationary wheel, which should be enough to get it moving. Yes?

You will sacrifice stability and safety at higher speeds on slick surfaces. Trust me - I've had two vehicles that had LSDs - a performance oriented car and a truck - owing to the lack of traction the truck was just plain dangerous on snow/ice above about 25 mph. The car not so much, because it had more traction (and was never driven in snow), but even on wet roads each would understeer at the drop of a hat while going around a corner under power - granted, both had more power than your average and no traction nannies whatsoever, but still, I don't recommend for a stock 2WD Ranger.

Also, you'll spend ~ $1,500+ to buy and have one installed (professionally, that is) provided you can even find one in the aftermarket. You're probably just better off with snow tires and sand bags in the bed.

[Rupert]

Sand bags are a given, but snow tires aren't gonna happen because I don't drive in the snow very much. It seems to me that you wouldn't experience any difference in handling unless you applied enough power to make one of the wheels slip a bit, activating the clutches in the LSD, etc. In low traction situations, it's not too hard to be light on the throttle, especially with a 4 cylinder Ranger.

But, cost is prohibitive. I'd install on my own, which rules out the complicated set-ups. The Powertrax thing NACar likes seems to get good enough reviews, and it's $3-400, but it's a locker.

[Rupert]

Knowing me, I'll probably do nothing, get stuck in the woods somewhere, and then buy a Trooper.

[TBR]

No, you'll get stuck in the woods, buy a Trooper, sell it for no apparent reason, buy a crappy Jeep, break and then sell a crappy Jeep, buy a Trooper in crappy condition, spend a fortune fixing it, and then curse yourself repeatedly.

[S204STi]

Like in Washington is truly complex.

[Rupert]

Maybe I should get a new sig...

[Rupert]

Like in Washington is truly complex.

Life?

I'm in ID for a bit longer...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Maybe I should get a new sig...

needs more volvo wagons

[Rupert]

Might be so... I think it really needs more Ranger being awesome.

Now I need the Ranger to be awesome in front of a camera...

[Rupert]

No, you'll get stuck in the woods, buy a Trooper, sell it for no apparent reason, buy a crappy Jeep, break and then sell a crappy Jeep, buy a Trooper in crappy condition, spend a fortune fixing it, and then curse yourself repeatedly.

Also, don't forget about the crappy Volvo.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Might be so... I think it really needs more Ranger being awesome.

Now I need the Ranger to be awesome in front of a camera...

Do a burnout while driving over a Miata.

[S204STi]

Life?

I'm in ID for a bit longer...

Wow, that wasn't even on the same side of the keyboard.

It is kinda late here...