Chrysler Chapter 7 liquidation imminent?

[TBR]

Actually Toyota sells more Highlanders in the US than Chrysler does Calibers.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?s=cf12cee61ce8820efefdf2b28ccb18ab&t=382903&page=2

Page 1 and 2

Caliber YTD as of end of september: 74,069

Highlander YTD as of end of september: 81,951

This year perhaps. Last year I am sure the story was different. Anyway, the actual numbers are pretty irrelevant. My point was that if 13 years later I can buy any part brand new for a relatively low production Honda then people really shouldn't be concerned about buying parents for their Chryslers. It isn't like manufacturers make new parts for a car 15 years later, they just stock pile a bunch before the cars go out of production, since part of what Chrysler will be liquidating is their parts division I am sure the same will happen here.

The Caliber does outsell the Landcruiser here in the states, but there are also those other international markets people were talking about.

I am well aware of that. However, that frequently is a pretty much entirely different vehicle from what we get (the GX470 is sold as a Land Cruiser as well as previous LCs). Additionally, Asia isn't going to have much of a market for offroad vehicles while Africa and South America have such tiny markets that it is pretty safe to say the total sales are inconsequential.

[Onslaught]

30 years of inventory control and manufacturing technological improvements must count for something here.

I don't see why in 2020 it would be any harder to get a parts for a model 2008 Chrysler/Dodge than it would be to get them for a model 2008 Toyota.

I don't know about that. If it's something very common then yes you'll be able to get it. But in my line of work I run up against stuff that you can't get all the time for cars that have only been out of production for 4 years or so. There are lots of parts you can't buy new for my 1990 Miata as well. I know because I've tried.

[Onslaught]

I assure you they don't sell as many Land Cruisers worldwide as Dodge sells Calibers in the USA alone.


But, this is largely irrelevant, if you would like to deceive yourself about how many LCs Toyota sells just change that to Highlander.

I don't think they sell more. But it's something that would be kept around in working order for longer. And the demand for parts would be greater.
The Caliber is a throw away car.

[SVT666]

I don't know about that. If it's something very common then yes you'll be able to get it. But in my line of work I run up against stuff that you can't get all the time for cars that have only been out of production for 4 years or so. There are lots of parts you can't buy new for my 1990 Miata as well. I know because I've tried.

You can't buy a Ford clutch for my SVT Focus anymore and it's a 2003.  The clutches available are aftermarket and they make a weird rattling noise when you're coming to a stop.  Apparently it's normal with the aftermarket SVT Focus clutches...and that makes me wish Ford still made a clutch for it.  Also, I can't buy SVT Focus engines from Ford anymore.

[the Teuton]

You can't buy a Ford clutch for my SVT Focus anymore and it's a 2003.  The clutches available are aftermarket and they make a weird rattling noise when you're coming to a stop.  Apparently it's normal with the aftermarket SVT Focus clutches...and that makes me wish Ford still made a clutch for it.  Also, I can't buy SVT Focus engines from Ford anymore.

If your Focus ever dies, may I suggest a Yamaha V6 or a V8 as a replacement engine?

Back to the subject at hand, the Japanese made vastly superior products in the 1980s and 1990s, but that was back when domestic manufacturers dominated 70% of the industry and it was seen that VW would be the next powerhouse in the industry.  No one took the Japanese seriously because there was no need.  They were too small and the Japanese were going through a recession, so it was unlikely that their economy could sustain such growth at the time.  Honestly, everyone should have started worrying in 1981 and 1984, respectively, when Honda and Toyota built their first NA plants.

This whole predicament can be traced to three major factors:  1) the UAW, 2) the US companies not reacting quickly when their perceived quality went down the crapper, and 3) the US not making relevant products in a timely manner.

Chrysler dominated the 1990s in the US with great products, even if they had lackluster quality.  They were all relevant.  The 1998 merger destroyed every bit of momentum Chrysler had going into the new millennium.

[565]

This year perhaps. Last year I am sure the story was different.

I'm curious why you are sure last year the story was different.

Actually I'm sure last year the story was the same, seeing how last years YTD sales were included in the same link I posted before.

2007 YTD at end of september sales

Caliber YTD at 2007 september: 80,352
Highlander YTD at 2007 september: 91,294

[dazzleman]

If your Focus ever dies, may I suggest a Yamaha V6 or a V8 as a replacement engine?

Back to the subject at hand, the Japanese made vastly superior products in the 1980s and 1990s, but that was back when domestic manufacturers dominated 70% of the industry and it was seen that VW would be the next powerhouse in the industry.  No one took the Japanese seriously because there was no need.  They were too small and the Japanese were going through a recession, so it was unlikely that their economy could sustain such growth at the time.  Honestly, everyone should have started worrying in 1981 and 1984, respectively, when Honda and Toyota built their first NA plants.

This whole predicament can be traced to three major factors:  1) the UAW, 2) the US companies not reacting quickly when their perceived quality went down the crapper, and 3) the US not making relevant products in a timely manner.

Chrysler dominated the 1990s in the US with great products, even if they had lackluster quality.  They were all relevant.  The 1998 merger destroyed every bit of momentum Chrysler had going into the new millennium.

Even in the late 1970s and early 1980s, lots of people were becoming very worried about Japanese competition with the domestic auto industry.  It was a time when the US economy was weak, Chrysler was on the ropes, AMC was going under, and there were protectionist pressures.

The US auto industry was a victim of its own success.  For several decades, it had a virtual monopoly on the most lucrative auto market on the planet.  Chrysler, Ford and GM were in a tacit collusion with each other, and they could all survive as long as none of the three got too far ahead of the others, since consumers had few other options.

All this started to change in the 1970s.  The US automakers were offering gas guzzlers at a time of gas lines and soaring gas prices.  They had a couple of 'economy' cars, such as the Ford Pinto and Chevy Vega, that were absolute crap, not worth the value of the scrap metal that they could produce.  This gave the Japanese their opening to crack the US market, and they did for the first time in a meaningful way in the 1970s.  Their market share grew in the 1980s.

In response, the US automakers decided to take the short-term measure of milking the value of their brand names.  Premium cars like Cadillacs and Lincolns were turned into pimpmobiles in order to generate short-term sales gains.  And the US manufacturers cut quality, and the more fuel-efficient cars that they started to offer in the 1980s were inferior to their Japanese competition.

When gas prices dropped after the mid-1980s and gas guzzlers came back into fashion in the 1990s, the US manufacturers quickly put all their eggs in that basket, milking higher-margin SUVs and trucks.  They perpetuated their cost disadvantages with ill-advised concessions to the UAW, so they had to offer inferior quality to maintain profitability.  Because they pissed away their positive image on most of their sedan models, they could compete only by offering an inferior product for a cheaper price, rather than by putting out a product that would entice people to want to pay more for it.

Chrysler's current predicament is the result of decades of mismanagement and bad decision-making.  Ditto for Ford and GM.  I hope they can get save themselves, but I fear it may be too late.  It may have been better to let Chrysler go under back in 1979.  Maybe that would have jolted the other two into getting their act together.  Government bailouts that seem a good idea at the time often have negative repercussions far into the future.

[TBR]

I'm curious why you are sure last year the story was different.

Actually I'm sure last year the story was the same, seeing how last years YTD sales were included in the same link I posted before.

2007 YTD at end of september sales

Caliber YTD at 2007 september: 80,352
Highlander YTD at 2007 september: 91,294

I didn't actually look at the link...

I don't know why I thought the Caliber was a 100,000+/year car. Still, like I said the numbers are pretty much irrelevant since Chrysler doesn't make any low production cars.

[Laconian]

The Ultradrive transmission is what turned my family off of Chryslers. Our minivan ate two transmissions, both of which were VERY costly to repair. What garbage.

[Laconian]

The Germans and Japanese, they have a formula and they refine it over decades. It pays dividends for them when history repeats itself - Honda and Toyota are reaping the benefits of having nurtured their small cars even in times when oil was plentiful. Detroit's singular focus of staying on the short term profit bandwagon won't allow them to do this.

[Onslaught]

You can't buy a Ford clutch for my SVT Focus anymore and it's a 2003.  The clutches available are aftermarket and they make a weird rattling noise when you're coming to a stop.  Apparently it's normal with the aftermarket SVT Focus clutches...and that makes me wish Ford still made a clutch for it.  Also, I can't buy SVT Focus engines from Ford anymore.

It's normal for parts of  a rare version of a car to be hard to get. It also sucks a big one when that happens.
It's one of the reasons I didn't ever drive a Mazdaspeed6. I knew I'd like the car and years down the road I'd
be SOL.

[S204STi]

"And fourth, Chrysler’s parts supply division. I don’t know how many Chryco rigs are on the road, but they’re going to need parts for a long time. Existing parts inventory that’s worth something plus profits from sales that will continue for years. So we’ll put a $1b price tag there."

Considering I can buy even the most obscure part brand new for my 12 year old Honda I wouldn't be worried about it.

As it stands, most manufacturs aren't required to support parts for vehicles over 10 years old.  So not much would change in 10 years, except for the fact that only the aftermarket would support chrysler vehicles. 

[SVT666]

If your Focus ever dies, may I suggest a Yamaha V6 or a V8 as a replacement engine?

I can buy aftermarket engines, just not engines from Ford.

[93JC]

The Ultradrive transmission is what turned my family off of Chryslers. Our minivan ate two transmissions, both of which were VERY costly to repair. What garbage.

Coincidentally mine is doing fine.

[the Teuton]

I can buy aftermarket engines, just not engines from Ford.

Might I suggest:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/turp_0204_alamo_autosports_focus_sho_turbo_kit_system/index.html

?

[SVT666]

Might I suggest:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/turp_0204_alamo_autosports_focus_sho_turbo_kit_system/index.html

?

Actually, I would be getting an engine from these guys: Focus-Power.  They have balanced and blueprinted engines that are built with forged internals, ported and polished head, etc. for $3500.  They are running a Focus with that engine with a huge turbo pushing 500hp that they call The Beast...the one in the picture on their website.

[Nethead]

From  The Left Lane News  website:

Chrysler purchasing chief steps down

Although the day after the Big Three bailout failed to pass the Senate seems like a pretty good time to retire to us, Campi says his decision to leave is based on health issues and not the current state of the Michigan automaker.

According to Automotive News, Scott Garberding, 44, will take over Campi?s position immediately. Garberding has been with Chrysler since 1996 and most recent served as vice president of global alliance operations.

Campi, 64, joined Chrysler last January and served with Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli at Home Depot prior to coming to the automaker. Immediately after joining Chrysler Campi pushed for greater collaboration with suppliers and the purchase of more parts from lost-cost regions, but wound up with more supplier lawsuits than alliances.

[Nethead]

From www.jalopnik.com comes this article about a Cerberus/Chrysler announcement that makes ya feel like Chrysler may not resume producing vehicles in 2009 unless they get Federal bail-out bucks really soon.  It don't look good in th' neighborhood, bro...

Carpocalypse Now
Chrysler Ceasing Production Friday, Won't Promise To Come Back
By Matt Hardigree, 6:00 PM on Wed Dec 17 2008

Chrysler just announced plans to stop production for at least a month. Did anyone else notice they wouldn't commit to coming back?

In a statement from Chrysler, the company acknowledges the Carpocalypse and explains all 30 of the company's plants will be idled on Friday, December 19. But rather than giving a specific date for returning the release merely states:

"Chrysler manufacturing operations... will not return to work any sooner than Monday, Jan. 19, 2009."

While we assume the company will come back at some point, maybe in order to produce its not-so-mysterious future vehicles, it does make the situation sound even more dire than even we could imagine.

In reality, this will probably allow the company to avoid bringing production of cars they have way too many of online until/if demand increases. It will also allow the company to completely scuttle certain lines altogether.

Or they've almost completely run out of money.

They carefully and eerily worded press release below:

Chrysler LLC Adjusts Production as a Result of the Deteriorating U.S. Credit Crunch
Auburn Hills, Mich., Dec 17, 2008 -

Due to the continued lack of consumer credit for the American car buyer and the resulting dramatic impact it has had on overall industry sales in the United States, Chrysler LLC announced that it will make significant adjustments to the production schedules of its manufacturing operations. In doing so, the Company will keep production and dealer inventory aligned with U.S. market demand. In response, the Company confirmed that all Chrysler manufacturing operations will be idled at the end of the shift Friday, Dec. 19, and impacted employees will not return to work any sooner than Monday, Jan. 19, 2009.

Chrysler dealers confirmed to the Company at a recent meeting at its headquarters, that they have many willing buyers for Chrysler, Jeep? and Dodge vehicles but are unable to close the deals, due to lack of financing. The dealers have stated that they have lost an estimated 20 to 25 percent of their volume because of this credit situation.

The Company will continue to monitor the production schedules of its manufacturing operations moving forward.

[Tave]

Why would we bail out a company who bought the brand to liquidate and dissolve it? That's oxymoronic.

[Byteme]

If I had placed an order for a Chrysler Corp product and paid a deposit, I'd now be pissed.

[r0tor]

Chrysler probably has a 2 month suplpy on hand for all their cars/trucks anyway... it should be applauded they shutdown instead of doing what the Big 3 always do - that is continue producing and then sell everything at 30% off pricing

[Laconian]

Cerberus has a ton of cash on hand. They could "save" Chrysler if they really wanted to.