Yeah, you knew i had to go there sooner or later....

[565]

Besides, I've seen inertia mechanism semi-auto shotguns fail to feed too many times to prefer one over a pump. And, there is no sound more intimidating than hearing a 12 gauge rack one in.

Yeah I've got the opposite perference that everyone else has.  Most everyone says pump shotguns for HD, and semi auto for birds and targets.

My target gun is a pump, but my HD gun is a semi auto, it's actually a gas driven gun, the only gas driven benelli shotgun (their R1 rifle is also gas driven). 

My reasoning for this opposite think is this.  Most of the complaints with semi autos failing to feed or eject either comes from low powered rounds or some debris in the weapon in the field.  Since my HD gun pretty much stays well oiled at home and fires full powered rounds, it's not a big deal.  I didn't buy a semi auto bird/target gun cause I couldn't afford one.

I rarely short stroke when shooting the pump, but I'm sure I've short stroked at least once in my life before.  I'm sure I've also forgotten to stroke at least once in my life before.  This is while I was under zero pressure.  I figure if it was ever a true home invasion situation I'd be scared shitless, I want as little chance for human error as possible.

I don't think the semi auto has ever failed to cycle for me while shooting full powered rounds.  I'm sure plenty of these guns do jam in the battlefield, but this well oiled and sheltered machine's perfect record so far beats my personal non perfect record.

So in the end it's a matter of mechanical reliability vs human reliability.  My pump probably has a much better mechanical reliability, but the semi auto removes my human error part.

That said, it's totally not worth the money over a pump.  Since I own both already, the M4 is the one under the bed, but if I had to do it again I'd just buy a 400 dollar Mossberg.  Basically I got shaken up by that Cheshire home invasion thing a while back, since it was literally down the street from me, and the theives targeted them after seeing their car drive from Stop and Shop.  That Stop and Shop is like 3 blocks from my place and I go there all the time in the Z06, so I freaked out and figured a combat shotgun was a good investment.  As I basically knew absolutely nothing about firearms at the time, I figured whatever the US military used had to automatically be the best ever right?  And since it was a matter of life protection, no price was too great.  I placed an order and it took something like 7 months to arrive, by which time my fears cooled down and I wised up a bit and already got something else.

Basically I'm now really pissed about those home invaders/ child rapists/murders because I got paranoid and wasted 1400 on a gun that took 7 months to arrive.  And then I actually got interested in firearms (what young male isn't?) and ended up blowing like 1500 more dollars on various firearms.  Those bastards cost me 3000 dollars in money, not including range time and ammunition.

Still the price of these things seems to be holding pretty steady, and if the Democratics take office and pass more restrictive gun laws the M super 90 family of shotguns seem to be on the chopping block, so the value might actually go up.

[565]

If the collapsible stock shortens the gun to less than 26 inches overall, it would be illegal anyways.

Oh, and I looked it up and apparently the M4 is a gas operated semi auto, which may solve the misfeed problems I've seen in the past.

It's apparently still 34 inches with the collapsed stock.

While more or less useless if you don't plan on jumping from a plane with the gun, those stocks were an amazing investment while they were still sold.

Benelli sold them for 180 bucks, but since they stopped importing them, prices have jumped to 500-700 for two pieces of plastic.

Gotta love that supply and demand and the need to tacticool your gun.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

AR 15

[Submariner]

Both of those are select-fire full autos. While technically not illegal, they are NFA34 firearms, which require you to get BATF approval and to pay a $200 tax before pruchase. I've no need or desire for a full auto rifle.

Unnecessary.  But...

A civilian version of the HK416 is supposed to be available- the MR223, but I've never seen one for sale.

I would guess they are expensive.

I've tried to limit the choices to those for which a decent supply chain exists in the US market. For H&Ks, that's the 91.

G3?

[Submariner]

Yeah, it's only got four rounds in the game.  The Winchester 1200 has 7 rounds chambered. 

the M1014 holds 7 I believe.

[280Z Turbo]

I don't believe in guns.  When our new president is elected, I think we should abolish the second amendment.  It has no real place in a morally decent society such as ours.

Guns are real whether you believe in them or not.

There might be one hiding under your bed right now waiting to shoot you.

[the Teuton]

Guns are real whether you believe in them or not.

There might be one hiding under your bed right now waiting to shoot you.

I will be ever so happy when you people no longer have your weapons of death.  The president will do what is needed to preserve the civility of this desecrated nation.  What will you people cling to if not for your guns and religion, just religion?

[565]

Guns are real whether you believe in them or not.

There might be one hiding under your bed right now waiting to shoot you.

Oh noes there are a couple under my bed right now!  Now I'm scared.

[Soup DeVille]

Yeah I've got the opposite perference that everyone else has.  Most everyone says pump shotguns for HD, and semi auto for birds and targets.

My target gun is a pump, but my HD gun is a semi auto, it's actually a gas driven gun, the only gas driven benelli shotgun (their R1 rifle is also gas driven). 

My reasoning for this opposite think is this.  Most of the complaints with semi autos failing to feed or eject either comes from low powered rounds or some debris in the weapon in the field.  Since my HD gun pretty much stays well oiled at home and fires full powered rounds, it's not a big deal.  I didn't buy a semi auto bird/target gun cause I couldn't afford one.

I rarely short stroke when shooting the pump, but I'm sure I've short stroked at least once in my life before.  I'm sure I've also forgotten to stroke at least once in my life before.  This is while I was under zero pressure.  I figure if it was ever a true home invasion situation I'd be scared shitless, I want as little chance for human error as possible.

I don't think the semi auto has ever failed to cycle for me while shooting full powered rounds.  I'm sure plenty of these guns do jam in the battlefield, but this well oiled and sheltered machine's perfect record so far beats my personal non perfect record.

So in the end it's a matter of mechanical reliability vs human reliability.  My pump probably has a much better mechanical reliability, but the semi auto removes my human error part.

That said, it's totally not worth the money over a pump.  Since I own both already, the M4 is the one under the bed, but if I had to do it again I'd just buy a 400 dollar Mossberg.  Basically I got shaken up by that Cheshire home invasion thing a while back, since it was literally down the street from me, and the theives targeted them after seeing their car drive from Stop and Shop.  That Stop and Shop is like 3 blocks from my place and I go there all the time in the Z06, so I freaked out and figured a combat shotgun was a good investment.  As I basically knew absolutely nothing about firearms at the time, I figured whatever the US military used had to automatically be the best ever right?  And since it was a matter of life protection, no price was too great.  I placed an order and it took something like 7 months to arrive, by which time my fears cooled down and I wised up a bit and already got something else.

Basically I'm now really pissed about those home invaders/ child rapists/murders because I got paranoid and wasted 1400 on a gun that took 7 months to arrive.  And then I actually got interested in firearms (what young male isn't?) and ended up blowing like 1500 more dollars on various firearms.  Those bastards cost me 3000 dollars in money, not including range time and ammunition.

Still the price of these things seems to be holding pretty steady, and if the Democratics take office and pass more restrictive gun laws the M super 90 family of shotguns seem to be on the chopping block, so the value might actually go up.

Those are all good points. Like I said, I grew up shooting pump shotguns though, so I automatically pump without thinking about it. I actually had to condition myself not to pump rifles whe I started with them. It may be something to think about now that the wife is started to get used to the idea of using the shotgun.

[Soup DeVille]

I will be ever so happy when you people no longer have your weapons of death.  The president will do what is needed to preserve the civility of this desecrated nation.  What will you people cling to if not for your guns and religion, just religion?

I'm an atheist. Aint got nothing but guns then I guess.

[the Teuton]

I'm an atheist. Aint got nothing but guns then I guess.

Sucks to be you.  I can't wait for everyone to turn in their guns to make for a safer America.  It's a change I can believe in.

[280Z Turbo]

Sucks to be you.  I can't wait for everyone to turn in their guns to make for a safer America.  It's a change I can believe in.

Do you believe in getting stabbed instead?

[the Teuton]

Do you believe in getting stabbed instead?

Ban knives then.  They're just as dangerous.

[280Z Turbo]

Ban knives then.  They're just as dangerous.

Do you believe in getting beaten with a bat?

[the Teuton]

Do you believe in getting beaten with a bat?

Ban baseball.  The Japanese are better at it than us, so it's no longer as "American as apple pie." 

Baseball bats are weapons of violence and a display of how far we've fallen as a country.  Get rid of NASCAR, too, while we're at it.  The best car in that series is Japanese.

[280Z Turbo]

Ban baseball.  The Japanese are better at it than us, so it's no longer as "American as apple pie." 

Baseball bats are weapons of violence and a display of how far we've fallen as a country.  Get rid of NASCAR, too, while we're at it.  The best car in that series is Japanese.

What about tire irons?

[Raza]

I don't believe in guns.  When our new president is elected, I think we should abolish the second amendment.  It has no real place in a morally decent society such as ours.

[the Teuton]

What about tire irons?

They should be made of plastic, impact-absorbing plastic.  Iron is such a crude material.  I mean, come on, it's the twenty-first century.  Tire irons are so unsafe.

[Raza]

It's apparently still 34 inches with the collapsed stock.

While more or less useless if you don't plan on jumping from a plane with the gun, those stocks were an amazing investment while they were still sold.

Benelli sold them for 180 bucks, but since they stopped importing them, prices have jumped to 500-700 for two pieces of plastic.

Gotta love that supply and demand and the need to tacticool your gun.

Are shotguns cheaper than handguns?

I might need to get myself a pistol grip pump and keep it in my lap at all times.

[280Z Turbo]

They should be made of plastic, impact-absorbing plastic.  Iron is such a crude material.  I mean, come on, it's the twenty-first century.  Tire irons are so unsafe.

Prohibition of weapons is what makes prisons so safe.

[565]

Are shotguns cheaper than handguns?

I might need to get myself a pistol grip pump and keep it in my lap at all times.

Depends on the shotgun, the sky's the limit for some, but super cheap ones can be pretty cheap.

You can get a cheap pump for like 250 new at Dicks sporting goods.

[S204STi]

I kind of want a AR-15, but I wouldn't know what to do with one if I got it.

I am very partial to semi auto shotguns though.

My first gun was an 1187.  God I miss that thing.   With the plug removed I could fire off 5 shots in a couple of seconds.  Sadly, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.

[S204STi]

Are shotguns cheaper than handguns?

I might need to get myself a pistol grip pump and keep it in my lap at all times.

I forget what my 870 went for, but it was fairly cheap especially compared with a hand gun.

I think that guns with a pistol grip tend to be on the higher end though, which is more costly.  The 870 has been around for nearly a century, so it's a rugged but very cheap gun.

[Soup DeVille]

Are shotguns cheaper than handguns?

I might need to get myself a pistol grip pump and keep it in my lap at all times.

You can get a good pump 12 ga for less than $300. Remington 870s would probably be your best bet.

If I were buying a first gun for home defense, I'd get a remington 870 super express, and an Insight Procyon tac light with mount and remote pressure switch, and load it with 7 1/2 birdshot, or brenneke slugs depending on how worried I was about penetrating the drywall.

A setup like that could probably be put together for less than $400. Add another $100 for tritium sights.

[omicron]

As an Australian, by default I must respond in the Icky.

[rohan]

Need doesn't really have anything to do with it- Its hard to imagine a scenario where even a police officer would need a full auto.

But, yeah, I don't see a need for one.

L.A. Shootout or any situation where your criminal has a similar single shot semi-auto you obviously want better firepwer but a 3 round burst can be just as good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm1PEY8F4xE

This was pretty tuff because the Mini-14 is a GREAT gun and it's easy to use and really reliable.  The other one I really like is the AR-15.  I have at my house an AR-15 tac A3.  I really like them.

I'ld also give almost anything for a really nice M1 Garand.

[rohan]

You can get a good pump 12 ga for less than $300. Remington 870s would probably be your best bet.

If I were buying a first gun for home defense, I'd get a remington 870 super express, and an Insight Procyon tac light with mount and remote pressure switch, and load it with 7 1/2 birdshot, or brenneke slugs depending on how worried I was about penetrating the drywall.

A setup like that could probably be put together for less than $400. Add another $100 for tritium sights.

Also atop my wishlist is the Benelli semi-auto 12ga.  We have them in all our patrol cars as primary long gun and M-16a3's we got from the MSP armory last year to replace our aging AR-15's that were about 15 years old.

[Soup DeVille]

Benellis are really good guns, I can't fault them: except on price.

[Eye of the Tiger]

M-16's are like Jeeps - they get the job done, but they're not much fun. I'd rather have a Ferrari. Which gun is the Ferrari? I dunno, I picked Ar-15.

[Soup DeVille]

M-16's are like Jeeps - they get the job done, but they're not much fun. I'd rather have a Ferrari. Which gun is the Ferrari? I dunno, I picked Ar-15.

The Sig 556 or HK91 would probably be the Ferrari of the bunch.