Yeah, you knew i had to go there sooner or later....

[Lebowski]

This entire pump sound giving away your position is pointless.

Listen, all I'm saying is the oft touted "the pump sound of the gun will scare away the intruder" line is overrated.  I had no intention for that comment to spark such a long winded argument.

If you think otherwise, get one and use hte pump sound to scare away anyone you'd like.  IMHO, there about 1,001 reasons why a pump action 12 gauge is an excellent choice for self defense and the noise the pump makes ranks about 3rd to last on that list.

[565]

Listen, all I'm saying is the oft touted "the pump sound of the gun will scare away the intruder" line is overrated.  I had no intention for that comment to spark such a long winded argument.

If you think otherwise, get one and use hte pump sound to scare away anyone you'd like.  IMHO, there about 1,001 reasons why a pump action 12 gauge is an excellent choice for self defense and the noise the pump makes ranks about 3rd to last on that list.

No I totally agree with you that the myth that pumping a shotgun somehow makes people lose their bowel movements is stupid.

It's just a noise, and everyone says it's really distinctive, but it's really no more distinctive than cycling a semi auto.  Your preaching to the choir about not scaring people with the pump sound, that's why I've got the semi auto under the bed and the pump as a target gun.

I'm saying that there is no advantage or disadvantage to the pumping noise over a semi auto cycle noise, as they are both rather loud and manditory to chamber a round. 

[S204STi]

I guess 00buck is next on my list of things to get at Walmart.

[Soup DeVille]

Also from a practical standpoint, there are certainly some scenarios in which you'd want to clear the house.  You hear a suspicious noise but aren't sure there's an intruder ... you don't want to be the guy who barricades himself in the "safe room" and calls the cops every time your ice machine starts making some funky noises.

I understand you live alone, as does Cougs.  I have a wife and two sons. While I may direct them to take cover, I am most certainly not hunkering down into a "safe room" and waiting.

[Soup DeVille]

Seriously everyone is using bird shot now?  I've always heard that stuff only penetrates 6 inches and if someone is a bit large you might not reach the vitals.  The magazines in both guns are loaded with 00 buck with 12 pellets in 2 3/4 length. 

I've also heard #1 is good too.

Remember, the point is to disable the guy, not necessarily to kill him. If he happens to die- well, I'm not losing any sleep over it, but that is not my primary intent.

Birdshot (7 1/2 will not penetrate two a 3/8ths drywall on stud wall, 4 might) still packs all the kinetic energy you need to disable 95% of intruders.

[Raza]

Remember, the point is to disable the guy, not necessarily to kill him. If he happens to die- well, I'm not losing any sleep over it, but that is not my primary intent.

Birdshot (7 1/2 will not penetrate two a 3/8ths drywall on stud wall, 4 might) still packs all the kinetic energy you need to disable 95% of intruders.

According to Dave Chappelle, you want to load "birdshot, buckshot, birdshot, slug, slug, slug!  Slugs for everybody!"

[Soup DeVille]

According to Dave Chappelle, you want to load "birdshot, buckshot, birdshot, slug, slug, slug!  Slugs for everybody!"

There are some that teach that, but really: if the birdshot doesn't stop him, just go straight to the brenneke slugs. (and in winter, when clothing may be heavy enough t stop the birdshot, just start with the slugs).

If I was the only one expected to ever clear the house, I'd use the Sig, but my wife is much more comfortable with the shotgun, and she will be much more likley to fire if she doesn't think she's going to blow big holes in somebody.

If she's afraid to use it, its useless.

[Submariner]

They're all fairly worthless - can't dare use any for home defense and most aren't powerful enough or of legal caliber for hunting.

That said, I'd probably just opt for the AK-47/SKS style. They're easy weapons shoot, service and chamber.

However, as of yesterday I'll never buy another firearm from a dealer - no registration is my motto from here on out.

I also need to get a safe before I do anything else firearm related.

A few people I know use some sort of semi auto .223/5.56 round for HD.

I'd love to get my hands on an HK416, but the price is rather high.  For now, it's a pistol, and perhaps an M4 with an HK upper reciever, aimpoint, etc.

[Raza]

There are some that teach that, but really: if the birdshot doesn't stop him, just go straight to the brenneke slugs. (and in winter, when clothing may be heavy enough t stop the birdshot, just start with the slugs).

If I was the only one expected to ever clear the house, I'd use the Sig, but my wife is much more comfortable with the shotgun, and she will be much more likley to fire if she doesn't think she's going to blow big holes in somebody.

If she's afraid to use it, its useless.

Well, he said it was set up for two intruders.  Birdshot the first guy, buck him if he's still coming, then birdshot the second guy. 

[Soup DeVille]

Listen, all I'm saying is the oft touted "the pump sound of the gun will scare away the intruder" line is overrated.  I had no intention for that comment to spark such a long winded argument.

It was more your argument about "giving away your position" that I found disconcerting than anything else.

[Raza]

A few people I know use some sort of semi auto .223/5.56 round for HD.

I'd love to get my hands on an HK416, but the price is rather high.  For now, it's a pistol, and perhaps an M4 with an HK upper reciever, aimpoint, etc.

I'm going to get a pistol (most likely Glock 30) and this:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_870_express_7-shot.asp

[Soup DeVille]

Well, he said it was set up for two intruders.  Birdshot the first guy, buck him if he's still coming, then birdshot the second guy. 

Hmmmm....

If the second guy aint running away by that time, he should get slugged.

[Soup DeVille]

I'm going to get a pistol (most likely Glock 30) and this:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_870_express_7-shot.asp

If you're going with a polymer, have you looked at the Springfield XD? Not that you can go wrong with a Glock really.

[Raza]

If you're going with a polymer, have you looked at the Springfield XD? Not that you can go wrong with a Glock really.

Polymer wasn't really my main concern (and again, this is all tentative, as I'll have to fire them all before I buy anything), but I was looking at caliber vs. size and cost. 

But man, that XD is an ugly gun.  Not a big deal, though.

Is that a hand squeeze safety?  My old BB gun had one of those, I didn't know they had them on real guns.

I mean, what I really want is a USP Compact 40, but they seem too expensive.  I'd also consider a Glock 27, because I've been told by many that the G30's small frame and big caliber don't make for a user friendly gun, and many have also said that .40 is the best round for home defense.

[Soup DeVille]

Polymer wasn't really my main concern (and again, this is all tentative, as I'll have to fire them all before I buy anything), but I was looking at caliber vs. size and cost. 

But man, that XD is an ugly gun.  Not a big deal, though.

Is that a hand squeeze safety?  My old BB gun had one of those, I didn't know they had them on real guns.

I mean, what I really want is a USP Compact 40, but they seem too expensive.  I'd also consider a Glock 27, because I've been told by many that the G30's small frame and big caliber don't make for a user friendly gun, and many have also said that .40 is the best round for home defense.

yeah, its a grip safety, and there's a glock-type trigger lever safety too. Since I'm left-handed, I like things that are ambidextrous, and this also has ambi mag catches. Yeah, its kind of ugly, and no, I've never fired one, but they intrique me: especially the M series.

[Submariner]

Polymer wasn't really my main concern (and again, this is all tentative, as I'll have to fire them all before I buy anything), but I was looking at caliber vs. size and cost. 

But man, that XD is an ugly gun.  Not a big deal, though.

Is that a hand squeeze safety?  My old BB gun had one of those, I didn't know they had them on real guns.

I mean, what I really want is a USP Compact 40, but they seem too expensive.  I'd also consider a Glock 27, because I've been told by many that the G30's small frame and big caliber don't make for a user friendly gun, and many have also said that .40 is the best round for home defense.

USP compact is the way to go.  I love those pistols.

[Lebowski]

I'm going to get a pistol (most likely Glock 30) and this:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_870_express_7-shot.asp

H&K USP, 1911 .... you change your mind every week

Seriously, I still say start with a 9mm.  If you end up getting into guns/shooting, 1) your first gun purchase will NOT be your last, and 2) you will be shocked at how much $$$ worth of ammo you can go through in an hour at the range.  Multiply that by 3-4 range trips a month and you have a $200-$300/month hobby, just in terms of ammo costs.  9mm ammo costs a third less than .45.  Start with the 9mm, and as you get more into shooting add more expensive guns (that use more expensive ammo), like that USP compact, to your collection.

Also, like you said, try to shoot as many as you can before you buy.  When I bought my G26, I shot it back to back w/ the G27.  I was all set to buy the G27, but I shot the 26 much more accurately with faster follow up shots, so I got it instead (and the cheaper ammo costs were another reason to get it over the 27).  That's just me - I didn't like the snappy recoil of the .40.  I also don't shoot my G31 as accurately with the .40 barrel as I do .357sig ... again that's just me, I'm not a particularly big fan of the .40 because I don't shoot it that well (you might).  Greg has said he's the complete opposite (he shoots .40 better than .357).  Everyone seems to be different as far as what they prefer or who shoots what more accurately, so rent as many as you can to see what YOU shoot the best.

[565]

There seems to be alot of gun owners on Carspin, so I really did make a "post pics of your armory" thread.

Here it is.

http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=16330.0

Let's see all those fine firearms!

[Raza]

H&K USP, 1911 .... you change your mind every week

Seriously, I still say start with a 9mm.  If you end up getting into guns/shooting, 1) your first gun purchase will NOT be your last, and 2) you will be shocked at how much $$$ worth of ammo you can go through in an hour at the range.  Multiply that by 3-4 range trips a month and you have a $200-$300/month hobby, just in terms of ammo costs.  9mm ammo costs a third less than .45.  Start with the 9mm, and as you get more into shooting add more expensive guns (that use more expensive ammo), like that USP compact, to your collection.

Also, like you said, try to shoot as many as you can before you buy.  When I bought my G26, I shot it back to back w/ the G27.  I was all set to buy the G27, but I shot the 26 much more accurately with faster follow up shots, so I got it instead (and the cheaper ammo costs were another reason to get it over the 27).  That's just me - I didn't like the snappy recoil of the .40.  I also don't shoot my G31 as accurately with the .40 barrel as I do .357sig ... again that's just me, I'm not a particularly big fan of the .40 because I don't shoot it that well (you might).  Greg has said he's the complete opposite (he shoots .40 better than .357).  Everyone seems to be different as far as what they prefer or who shoots what more accurately, so rent as many as you can to see what YOU shoot the best.

Well, truth be told, I really want a 1911, I just can't seem to find one that I can afford.  I'd like to spend no more than $500, so that's the main constraint here.  I have limited cash flows. 

But yeah, just like car shopping, you look at paper, and then the real thing before you make a decision.  I'll be sure to shoot before I buy.  I'll keep SPIN updated as it gets close.  I'm looking to purchase no sooner than January.

[Lebowski]

Well, truth be told, I really want a 1911, I just can't seem to find one that I can afford.  I'd like to spend no more than $500, so that's the main constraint here.  I have limited cash flows. 

But yeah, just like car shopping, you look at paper, and then the real thing before you make a decision.  I'll be sure to shoot before I buy.  I'll keep SPIN updated as it gets close.  I'm looking to purchase no sooner than January.

Argh, you have limited funds - just get a Glock 9mm!  Buying a 1911 now would be like a 16 year old kid who's never driven a car buying a Porsche 911, whereas the Glock is the Honda Accord.

You're what, 12 years old?  Which means, with your drinking, you have about another 35 years to live?  Plenty of time left to collect 1911s.

Start with something cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, easy to use, easy to take care of, and reliable.  There will be plenty of room in your armory for $3000 custom 1911s in the future.  Learn the basics with something cheap that works perfectly right out of the box.

[Lebowski]

I'm looking to purchase no sooner than January.

Good thinking.  No reason to buy it any more than 3 weeks before Obama takes it away from you, and puts it in a vault somewhere with Dazzleman's money.

[Raza]

Argh, you have limited funds - just get a Glock 9mm!  Buying a 1911 now would be like a 16 year old kid who's never driven a car buying a Porsche 911, whereas the Glock is the Honda Accord.

You're what, 12 years old?  Which means, with your drinking, you have about another 35 years to live?  Plenty of time left to collect 1911s.

Start with something cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, easy to use, easy to take care of, and reliable.  There will be plenty of room in your armory for $3000 custom 1911s in the future.  Learn the basics with something cheap that works perfectly right out of the box.

Why not get a .40, since my main concern will be stopping power?  I won't go to the range 4 times a month, not after I feel comfortable firing.

[GoCougs]

12 gauge bird shot with standard 2.75" shells will stop anyone at inside distances (~15' or less). That is some nasty nasty stuff at short range. Go for goose loads, and/or 3" shells, and/or full choke, and you'll literally start taking limbs apart at that range.

And I need to get a new camera...

[Soup DeVille]

Why not get a .40, since my main concern will be stopping power?  I won't go to the range 4 times a month, not after I feel comfortable firing.

Impact energy of the .357 sig is above that of the .40.

edit: In some rounds.

[Lebowski]

Why not get a .40, since my main concern will be stopping power?  I won't go to the range 4 times a month, not after I feel comfortable firing.

9mm is cheaper to shoot and easier for a noob to shoot accurately w/ quicker follow up shots, especially in a subcompact like the 26/27.  It also holds one more round in that size w/ the standard magazine, and has the option of accepting a 33rd magazine.  Yes the .40 has marginally more stopping power.

[S204STi]

There seems to be alot of gun owners on Carspin, so I really did make a "post pics of your armory" thread.

Here it is.

http://www.carspin.net/forums/index.php?topic=16330.0

Let's see all those fine firearms!

Cool!  I'll post my one gun tonight.

[S204STi]

Here's a question that I am in a dilemma over; do you guys usually leave your primary home defense weapon loaded at all times, or do you keep it empty?

I understand with a pistol that you can at least load the mag and leave it out of the gun, but for me I don't really have that option.  I can load the magazine tube and leave the chamber empty, but I still don't feel comfortable with guests or kids around doing that sort of thing, just in case someone finds it and starts screwing around.

At the same time, I don't want to have to grab a handful of shotgun shells and hustle them into the gun while the perp has his way in my home.

Any thoughts on that?

[Lebowski]

Here's a question that I am in a dilemma over; do you guys usually leave your primary home defense weapon loaded at all times, or do you keep it empty?

I understand with a pistol that you can at least load the mag and leave it out of the gun, but for me I don't really have that option.  I can load the magazine tube and leave the chamber empty, but I still don't feel comfortable with guests or kids around doing that sort of thing, just in case someone finds it and starts screwing around.

At the same time, I don't want to have to grab a handful of shotgun shells and hustle them into the gun while the perp has his way in my home.

Any thoughts on that?

http://www.gunvault.com/


Leave it in a quick access safe like that, loaded and ready to go.  Won't protect anything from thieves (they can just pick up the whole safe and carry it out), but will keep out kids and curious friends/family.



Edit:  Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.

[S204STi]

Keep saying that, I need an excuse to buy one but the spousal unit won't hear of it.

[Lebowski]

Keep saying that, I need an excuse to buy one but the spousal unit won't hear of it.

Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.

Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.

Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.

Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.

Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.

Oh you mean a shotgun?  I don't know, maybe a locking gun case?  This is one reason I wouldn't have a shotgun as my only home defense gun, it's just easier to store a pistol safely but still have quick access to it.