The Plan

[Vinsanity]

lol, there's no Four Seasons in Laguna Hills. Silly.

[Laconian]

If I round off to the nearest billion, I'm entitled to $0.

[Colonel Cadillac]

The White House bailed out GM and Chrysler! Hopefully the Obama administration lets Chrysler fail, because they really have no future with or without a bailout, but they've been bailed out in the meantime.

As for the problem of returning to competitive companies (per CNN):

We do not feel it is appropriate for government to dictate the specific terms of negotiations between management and labor or management and dealers or management and creditors," the official said.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said the union does not want further concessions to be spelled out in the loan agreement, but that the union would hold talks with the government about how to make the Big Three more competitive.

"We will work with the Obama administration and the new Congress to ensure that these unfair conditions are removed as we join in the coming months with all stakeholders to create a viable future for the U.S. auto industry," he said. I wonder how likely this is

[Colonel Cadillac]

In light of such a great number of people in favor of ridding the Big Three management, why has absolutely nobody brought out the idea of getting rid of Ron Gettelfinger? He and his union are for a large part responsible for the mess the Big Three are in on top of everything. While the union has managed incredible wage rates and tons of perks, he has certainly argued for too many and too much from these companies; his efforts have led to much of the lack of profitability which have in turn caused thousands of employees to be "bought out" and laid off.

[Vinsanity]

We do not feel it is appropriate for government to dictate the specific terms of negotiations between management and labor or management and dealers or management and creditors," the official said.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said the union does not want further concessions to be spelled out in the loan agreement, but that the union would hold talks with the government about how to make the Big Three more competitive.

"We will work with the Obama administration and the new Congress to ensure that these unfair conditions are removed as we join in the coming months with all stakeholders to create a viable future for the U.S. auto industry," he said.

LOL! Good luck trying to keep the government out now that they have a hand in the jar.

I as a taxpayer, for one, hope that the concessions are strictly enforced and remain binding for the entire duration until the bailout loans are paid back.

[Laconian]

The White House bailed out GM and Chrysler! Hopefully the Obama administration lets Chrysler fail, because they really have no future with or without a bailout, but they've been bailed out in the meantime.

This is one area I would like to see Bush at least TRY to be actually, you know, conservative, and he sells out. What the fuck. Is there any way to get this guy out of office any sooner?

[Byteme]

In light of such a great number of people in favor of ridding the Big Three management, why has absolutely nobody brought out the idea of getting rid of Ron Gettelfinger? He and his union are for a large part responsible for the mess the Big Three are in on top of everything. While the union has managed incredible wage rates and tons of perks, he has certainly argued for too many and too much from these companies; his efforts have led to much of the lack of profitability which have in turn caused thousands of employees to be "bought out" and laid off.

I don't like his stance or unions in general but think about it, you are asking that he be removed because he did/does his job too well.   

[dazzleman]

This is one area I would like to see Bush at least TRY to be actually, you know, conservative, and he sells out. What the fuck. Is there any way to get this guy out of office any sooner?

I don't like any of these bailouts, but I'm guessing the judgment is that the economy can't take another shock of this nature right now, and it was therefore necessary to keep the auto companies going at least until the overall economy stabilizes somewhat, and allows the problems to be dealt with in an orderly manner.

What a mess.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I don't like his stance or unions in general but think about it, you are asking that he be removed because he did/does his job too well.   

Not necessarily. He is the liaison between the companies and the union and it is his responsibility to keep the union's best interests at heart. By arguing for wages and perks that are beyond what the companies could afford, or to be competitive is not in the union's best interests. The UAW has gone on strike countless times over the years forcing the companies to take on debts they should not have taken on and pay them wages they should not have been payed, thus their costs became much higher than the non-unionized companies manufacturing in the United States. Anyone in their right mind knows that a company with costs higher than another company in the same industry cannot remain competitive, and therefore will eventually fold causing the very employees the union is fighting for to be fired and out of work.

Unions were invented for fair wages and safe working environments. Being that the government has enough control these days to ensure that working environments are in most cases perfectly suitable and safe to work in, their only purpose is to fight for fair wages. They have not fought for fair wages and have gained too much power of these companies forcing them into their own personal agenda; better wages and better perks.

Ron Gettelfinger took advantage of his and his union's power causing the companies to lose their ability to be competitive and therefore, the companies should be going into bankruptcy. He screwed over everyone he is fighting for, and those who he fought for too blindly followed orders and did not realize the consequences of their actions.

[dazzleman]

One thing I haven't seen talked about very much is the effect on unit vehicle cost of inflexible union work rules that prevent employees from being deployed in the most efficient manner, and thereby require featherbedding which pushes up manufacturing costs.

Is this a big issue with the B3?  I suspect it is, so this problem is about more than the amount that individual workers earn in wages and benefits.

[Soup DeVille]

One thing I haven't seen talked about very much is the effect on unit vehicle cost of inflexible union work rules that prevent employees from being deployed in the most efficient manner, and thereby require featherbedding which pushes up manufacturing costs.

Is this a big issue with the B3?  I suspect it is, so this problem is about more than the amount that individual workers earn in wages and benefits.

You bet it is.

An example: While comissioning (the process by which new machinery is put on line in a plant) a particular machine at Lake Orion, an electrical panel had to be removed and discarded. The electricians disconnected it, and went and got a hi-lo to pick it up and take it to the scrap yard. Driving up to the panel, a millwright stops them and asks what they think they're doing.

It is under the electrician's work rules that they get to install and remove electrical equipment. It is under the millwright''s work rules that they get to install and remove large equipment. Both groups claimed the removal of this panel as their work. Work stops, and they call their respective stewarts (a paid employee who's only job is to make sure union rules are adhered to, which, BTW, is different from a committeman who's job it is to bring worker complaints to the union's attention, or an ombudsman, who's job it is to bring union complaints to the management's attention, anywyas...). Upon consulting the bylaws, it is a millwright's job if the panel is over 15 cubic feet. The panel happens to measure just over that, but thelectricians say that panels are measured on their interior dimensions, not their exterior size. The book doesn't cover this that specifically, so they debate it for a while, go to lunch and come back, and eventually have somebody from material handling take care of it.

[dazzleman]

You bet it is.

An example: While comissioning (the process by which new machinery is put on line in a plant) a particular machine at Lake Orion, an electrical panel had to be removed and discarded. The electricians disconnected it, and went and got a hi-lo to pick it up and take it to the scrap yard. Driving up to the panel, a millwright stops them and asks what they think they're doing.

It is under the electrician's work rules that they get to install and remove electrical equipment. It is under the millwright''s work rules that they get to install and remove large equipment. Both groups claimed the removal of this panel as their work. Work stops, and they call their respective stewarts (a paid employee who's only job is to make sure union rules are adhered to, which, BTW, is different from a committeman who's job it is to bring worker complaints to the union's attention, or an ombudsman, who's job it is to bring union complaints to the management's attention, anywyas...). Upon consulting the bylaws, it is a millwright's job if the panel is over 15 cubic feet. The panel happens to measure just over that, but thelectricians say that panels are measured on their interior dimensions, not their exterior size. The book doesn't cover this that specifically, so they debate it for a while, go to lunch and come back, and eventually have somebody from material handling take care of it.

That confirms what I was thinking.  If the unions would get rid of these stupid work rules, they could make higher salaries and have their companies still be more competitive than they are.  I bet the non-unions plants in the south aren't dealing with this bullshit.

[TBR]

I don't like his stance or unions in general but think about it, you are asking that he be removed because he did/does his job too well.   

Alan Mullaly is doing a pretty good job yet congress wants him to work for nothing (meanwhile, congress just gave themselves a raise), clearly rational thinking is not required here.