Camaro stillborn???

[Nethead]

The Camaro will not see the light of day. It's dead. Over. Those GM workers I talked to knew something the rest of us don't. 10,000 deposit refunds coming.

I hope you weren't one of the 10,000 depositors--if GM files Chapter 11 or any other "chapter" of bankruptcy those depositors become creditors and may get the shaft if GM can't remain operating long enough to manufacture their Camaros.  Then it will be up to the bankruptcy courts to decide what percentage--if any--the depositors/creditors will get back from whatever funds GM has or whatever funds can be obtained through the liquidation of GM assets.

Hot tip:  DO NOT pay a deposit on any Camaro that isn't sitting on the showroom floor.  Or on any other GM vehicle for that matter--but especially the Camaro since it is not yet in production and it is a car that sensible management (not much worry there, fanboyz ) would can before any more money is sunk into a car that is out of touch with the times.  Contracts with the CAW and perhaps with various Canadian agencies who sorta had an agreement with GM that Camaros & Firebirds would be built in a Canadian factory if they're ever built at all is about the only prayer that the Camaro has left.  Of course, in bankruptcy those agreements do not have to be honored...

[SVT666]

I read that it was a one month delay in Camaro production.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I'm glad I didn't put a deposit down n a SS. But I've been waitin too long for this car to hit the road. I'm done with all the ups and downs. Today I start looking for a nice,low milege C6 Vette. 

[Raza]

Shame.  The convertible actually looks good, and competition always makes competitors better.

Although, I might be able to afford an SS convertible in 2011, should it actually come out.

[MX793]

'Found this on a website this morning:

"Rumors have been swirling for weeks, but GM made it official today: The Camaro has been delayed. Again.

To 95% of Americans, the production Camaro will be identical to the concept that debuted three years ago. GM announced today that the 10,000 preorders taken since October 2008 won't be filled until after October 2009--almost 4 years after the unveiling. Based on standard vehicle lifecycles, the Camaro will be due for a redesign three months after the first one sells. What's worse, the Camaro convertible has been delayed until 2011."

Production was only delayed by 1 month.  Instead of starting in February, they're starting in March.  Also, what they said was that they anticipate all orders to be filled by October at the latest, not that they'd start filling orders in October.  In other words, some folks may see their cars in May, some in July, and the absolute latest a person who pre-ordered may expect their car is October.

[SVT666]

G8, Camaro to be the last Zeta-based cars sold in U.S.

General Motors? rear-wheel drive revolution was put on hold a couple of years ago, but it looks as though the revolution is now officially dead. The upcoming Chevrolet Camaro will be the last car to ride on GM?s Zeta platform in the U.S., with future derivatives likely cancelled.

GM?s Zeta platform underpins the Pontiac G8 and the upcoming Chevy Camaro, but that will be the last we see of the Zeta architecture ? in any form ? in the U.S. Before the recent financial crisis hit, GM was planning to combine its Zeta and Sigma architectures into a new Alpha platform, giving the company a base for next-generation small and mid-size rear-drivers. However, that plan is now essentially dead.

?The strategy we had a few years ago of basically deriving a whole sweeping global portfolio off the Australian Zeta architecture ? frankly, we have had to abandon that dream,? GM vice chairman Bob Lutz told GoAuto.

GM?s Alpha platform was earmarked to underpin several future models, including the Cadillac CTS sedan and Pontiac Solstice. The Alphas platform would have likely underpinned a smaller Cadillac sedan as well.

But now that the Alpha program has been cancelled, the future of those models remains up in the air. The CTS will likely continue on its aging Sigma platform, but the Pontiac Solstice and smaller Cadillac model could be scrapped altogether.

[SVT666]

GM is dead.  They might as well just start waving the white flag.  Get your Camaros while you can guys.

[omicron]

If Ford and GM's joint decision to cancel their Australian-developed global RWD platforms somehow kills one or both of the Falcon and Commodore, so help me Lutz I will castrate you all with tin snips.

[Nethead]

If Ford and GM's joint decision to cancel their Australian-developed global RWD platforms somehow kills one or both of the Falcon and Commodore, so help me Lutz I will castrate you all with tin snips.

omicron:  Australia's automotive market has never needed the US market to survive at any time in its past, and surely doesn't need the US market (what market?) in these troubled times.  Carry on with those great products and all the terrific aftermarket parts developed Down Under!  Be glad you're there and not here!

[omicron]

omicron:  Australia's automotive market has never needed the US market to survive at any time in its past, and surely doesn't need the US market (what market?) in these troubled times.  Carry on with those great products and all the terrific aftermarket parts developed Down Under!  Be glad you're there and not here!

Not so. The first batch of 1960 Falcons imported from America suffered suspension failure - the front suspension ball joints simply collapsed on harsh dirt roads so common in Oz at the time. The Falcon name was so tarnished by '64 that had the Ford America not chipped in with the capital to survive another year and develop the improved '65 XP and '66 XR Falcons, Ford Australia would have abandoned local manufacturing altogether and become merely an importer.

Similarly, General Motors-Holden's collapsed in 1986, and had its North American parent not written off its debts and provided additional capital, the Holden brand would either have been sold or simply allowed to die. According to several books I've read, the difference between cutting Holden loose and absorbing its losses or paying for its rescue was only $40 million; chicken feed compared to the debts of near-on $800 million.

Admittedly, the situation is somewhat different these days. I think both are at break-even, having experienced quite comfortable profits through the '90s and early part of this decade, but in this day and age of consolidation and cost-minimisation, I'd imagine it would be much, much harder to gain approval for a unique RWD platform sold within a comparatively tiny market. The export situation isn't all roses, either - the G8 ST has been cancelled, the G8 isn't selling anywhere near as well as forecast, the Falcon isn't made in LHD at all, and so on. Only in the Middle East can Holden really pencil in a big fat tick - any other market such as New Zealand, South Africa and the like require such small volumes that they're not particularly concerning to GM as a whole if sales consist of Holden cars, American-made Chevrolets, Korean-made GM Daewoos etc.

We shall see. Both Ford Australia and GM Holden have had to fight their US parents for years to proceed with every new generation of Falcon and Commodore since the '80s, so they're certainly prepared to make their respective cases once more.

[GoCougs]

If Ford and GM's joint decision to cancel their Australian-developed global RWD platforms somehow kills one or both of the Falcon and Commodore, so help me Lutz I will castrate you all with tin snips.

I think if we've learned anything about Lutz it is that he frequently talks above his station.

[nickdrinkwater]

Embarassing for GM but hardly a surprise.

[ChrisV]

Auto Express Car Reviews
19th January 2009

Here are the pictures that prove that Chevrolet's Camaro Cabriolet is still on target for launch next year.

What's more, this latest model also helps prove that it won't just be US enthusaists that get to enjoy its good looks and impressive performance...

For the first time ever, buyers in the UK will be offered the model too.

The newcomer, spied testing in the Australian outback, had been rumoured to be victim of parent firm GM's latest round of cost cutting. However these latest pictures dismiss that out of hand.

Just like its fixed-roof stablemate, the new drop-top is will be powered by a 6.0-litre V8, delivering more than 400bhp to the rear wheels. Drivers will also be offered a six-speed manual gearbox. It also had independent rear suspension.

Both versions of the Camaro will be available in the US later this year, with right-hand-drive variants expected to reach UK showrooms in 2010.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I don't understand why GM couldn't creat one RWD platform to underpin several models.

Much like nissan does with the FM platform, they have one that they are able to modify to build rwd cars ranging from 2 seat z cars to 4 door luxury cars like the G and M series. It also is used for suv's like the EX and i believe FX.

Why does GM seem to need 2-3 to make half as many models, god GM sucks.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I'm not holding my breath!

[Payman]

I don't understand why GM couldn't creat one RWD platform to underpin several models.

Much like nissan does with the FM platform, they have one that they are able to modify to build rwd cars ranging from 2 seat z cars to 4 door luxury cars like the G and M series. It also is used for suv's like the EX and i believe FX.

Why does GM seem to need 2-3 to make half as many models, god GM sucks.

That was the original plan... until the new CAFE standards were established.

I hope the Camaro will see the light of day, but I'm also not holding my breath.

[Nethead]

I don't understand why GM couldn't creat one RWD platform to underpin several models.

Much like nissan does with the FM platform, they have one that they are able to modify to build rwd cars ranging from 2 seat z cars to 4 door luxury cars like the G and M series. It also is used for suv's like the EX and i believe FX.

Why does GM seem to need 2-3 to make half as many models, god GM sucks.

FlatBlackCaddy:  FBCdude, the original plan was to build around a half dozen or so models off the Zeta Light platform, of which the Camaro was the one that made it closest to production.  I think the Zeta Light was to underpin a RWD Impala, some smallish four-door, a station wagon, a mini-SUV in the vein of the RAV4 or the Escape, a small van-like affair a la the Scion xB, and maybe other versions down the road (Solstice/Sky/Aura replacement?).  Wishful thinkers were calling for a Chevelle and yet another GTO...

The compromises needed to accomodate such a broad sweep of variants has no doubt contributed to the long, long, long gestation of the Camaro. It may be that the Zeta Light design preceded the decision to come up with something in response to the Mustang (flat-footed again), and the cheapest & quickest expedient may have been to add one more variant to the Zeta Light.  Think how long it might have taken if the decision had been to develop a Camaro-specific platform!  Whew!

Anyway, the Zeta Heavy platform now appears doubtful to underpin anything, albeit partly an Economy issue as well as an engineering issue...Since the chassis is heavy anyway, it might become the underpinnings of an electric vehicle whose hefty batteries are gonna make chassis weight a secondary issue...See! Yet another variant emerges! 

[omicron]

spied testing in the Australian outback

[SVT666]

Does anyone actually believe this car is ever going to see the light of day?  I'm really having my doubts now.  Check out the latest report about what's going on with that bankrupt supplier.




Bankrupt Chevy Camaro parts supplier sues GM for $4.9m

The Chevrolet Camaro is one of a handful of new products that has the potential to create some buzz for the ailing automaker, but one GM?s Camaro supplier is turning out to be just that ? a real handful. Auto supplier Candence was charged with supplying interior parts for the upcoming pony car, but was forced into Chapter 11 bankruptcy last August. That quickly resulted in a lawsuit from GM, which Candence has now followed with a countersuit.

Candence?s lawsuit against GM claims the Detroit automaker owes it $4.9 million for parts, labor and equipment, according to Reuters. Troy, Michigan-based Candence ? which is now in Chapter 7 liquidation ? says that GM?s failure to pay could disrupt its bankruptcy process.

?GM?s breach of contract will result in substantial harm to Cadence?s bankruptcy estate, which is dependent on the funds that GM must pay to Cadence to confirm a plan in its bankruptcy case,? the parts supplier said in a statement.

Per a previous October ruling, GM is required to pay Candence on an expedited schedule for parts and services, on account of its bankruptcy filing.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The saga continues!

[Sigma Projects]

Real bumber if this car doesn't come out. That 300hp RS was look really good.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The title of this thread has always bothered me. I keep thinking of dead babies.

[Sigma Projects]

lol, yea kinda does have that feeling.

[sandertheshark]

The title of this thread has always bothered me. I keep thinking of dead babies.

What's funnier than a dead baby in a trashcan?

[Onslaught]

What's funnier than a dead baby in a trashcan?

Twins in one?

[the Teuton]

One dead baby in two trashcans?

[Eye of the Tiger]

One dead baby in two trashcans?

Yes

What else is funnier than a dead baby?

[Eye of the Tiger]

A dead baby in a clown suit.

How do you make a dead baby float?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Take your foot off its head

or

two scoops of ice cream, one scoop of dead baby.

[Eye of the Tiger]

What's the difference between 100 dead babies and a Volvo wagon?