Were American cars really that bad?

[93JC]

No, actually it looked very similar save for the big Eagle badge smack dab in the middle of the grille. I think they also planned on selling it as a Chrysler in Europe (as was the original Vision), so it was never intended to have radically different styling than other Chryslers.

[Tave]

I didn't really like the 300M (except for the 300M Special) and I like the 300C.

Car guys prefer the latter due to drivetrain configuration, but I remember cab-forward being praised and purchased in its day.

And I guess we don't have a similar product to compare it to, but judging by the history of the FWD mainstreamers, maybe Chrysler should have stuck to its guns and ignored the vocal minority. I think an identity crisis plagued the domestics over the past ten years, while the imports marched along at a slow, but steady pace.

It's not a good thing when some of your most popular models (300, PT) don't really have a connection to anything else in the brand or even each other. You become a collection of odds-and-ends (which is how Dodge ended up without a true compact to go against the Corolla/Civic/Focus/Cobalt market )

[565]

Well a Japanese designer for the next generation Camry Hybrid actually worked himself to death.

I don't see anyone in Detroit doing that, drink himself to death maybe.

There are very very few American cars that I'd buy over the foreign competition, and none of them are high volume cars, and in most cases it is massive performance and value that leads me to overlook the domestic's shortcomings.  Even in the very best modern American cars (new CTS, new Malibu, etc), there is still a lack of attention to detail that shows.  As unpatriotic and fatalistic as it sounds, the Japanese and Germans are still doing a better job at that sort of detailed quality than America right now, which is sad considering they are often using American workers to make cars.

We always tend to discount comparison tests, yet it is often those comparison test favorites that sell well, be it American or Foreign,  Honda Accord, BMW 3 series, Toyota Camry, Corvette, Silverado, etc.  When we see American products frequently on top of those comparos, maybe we'll see some change, but I think given the fact that Japan and German isn't going to sit back and relax, it might be a long time before things change, if ever.

[MrH]

I think the main problem resided in the lack of updates to their cars.  Toyota and Honda consistently revise their best selling models, improving nearly every aspect along the way.

And now, with their manufacturing technique that is so inefficient coupled with the crazy long turnaround time for developing a new car, most of the big three products are a full generation behind foreign cars in nearly every category.

[SVT666]

I think the main problem resided in the lack of updates to their cars.  Toyota and Honda consistently revise their best selling models, improving nearly every aspect along the way.

And now, with their manufacturing technique that is so inefficient coupled with the crazy long turnaround time for developing a new car, most of the big three products are a full generation behind foreign cars in nearly every category.

That might be true of half of GM's lineup and almost all of Chrysler's, but Ford's lineup is nearly all there with the Japanese.  And in the next two to three years, I predict Ford's lineup will be one of, if not, the best lineup in the industry.

[GoCougs]

I think the main problem resided in the lack of updates to their cars.  Toyota and Honda consistently revise their best selling models, improving nearly every aspect along the way.

And now, with their manufacturing technique that is so inefficient coupled with the crazy long turnaround time for developing a new car, most of the big three products are a full generation behind foreign cars in nearly every category.

Absolutely. Japan has been on consistent five year stretches. Detroit? We'll see if the CTS, Malibu and other contenders linger for 8+ years, or are completely redesigned in five years. History unfortunately points to the former.

And no, HEMI, Ford's lineup doesn't match the Japanese in total. The Focus, Taurus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, Ranger, certainly don't. Direct competitors to the Mustang, Flex, F-Super Duty, E-series, Japan simply doesn't make. There is parity with the Expedition, and maybe the Explorer, and the F-150 is much more successful, but that's about it.

[Vinsanity]

Absolutely. Japan has been on consistent five year stretches. Detroit? We'll see if the CTS, Malibu and other contenders linger for 8+ years, or are completely redesigned in five years. History unfortunately points to the former.

The last gen CTS went from 2003-2007 and the last gen Malibu went from 2004-2007.

The one I'm worried about is the Pontiac G6. Ever since they shelved the RWD replacement, it looks like the poor thing's going to be another GM zombie.

[the Teuton]

The G6 has become a rental special, hasn't it?

I saw a GXP coupe the other day and the Porsche-like deck spoiler looked awful on the thing.  I wouldn't be caught dead owning one of those.

[Minpin]

The G6 has become a rental special, hasn't it?

I saw a GXP coupe the other day and the Porsche-like deck spoiler looked awful on the thing.  I wouldn't be caught dead owning one of those.

haha funny guy, you are

[the Teuton]

haha funny guy, you are

Okay, so I would own one, but the spoiler looked terrible.

[Minpin]

Okay, so I would own one, but the spoiler looked terrible.

i just thought it was funny how badly you were ragging on it, considering what you drive currently.

not that i am trying to insult your car

[the Teuton]

i just thought it was funny how badly you were ragging on it, considering what you drive currently.

not that i am trying to insult your car

DON'T be trying to insult my car.

Okay, fine, but aren't I allowed to exaggerate occasionally?

[Rich]

lol I just googled for pictures of one and no one is buying these things.  I didn't come across a single one that was taken by an owner, they were all from either the mags, GM, or autoshows...

[Laconian]

LOL, you guys weren't kidding.. I had to Google it myself to believe it!

[Soup DeVille]

lol I just googled for pictures of one and no one is buying these things.  I didn't come across a single one that was taken by an owner, they were all from either the mags, GM, or autoshows...

I see them quite regularly.

Of course I live in Detroit, and every tenth vehicle on it has a bumper sticker saying something like

"I work for Ford, I drive a Ford," or

"Out of a Job yet? Keep buying foreign!" or

"You oughta be ashamed for purchasing the best product you could get instead of supporting me"

Okay, so that last one isn't a real one...

[SVT666]

And no, HEMI, Ford's lineup doesn't match the Japanese in total. The Focus, Taurus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, Ranger, certainly don't. Direct competitors to the Mustang, Flex, F-Super Duty, E-series, Japan simply doesn't make. There is parity with the Expedition, and maybe the Explorer, and the F-150 is much more successful, but that's about it.

An all new Taurus is coming to market in 2011 that is supposed to be based on the Mondeo (which rivals BMW in Europe), the European Focus (widely regarded as the best compact in Europe) is coming here when the next one is released in 2011-2012, the new Fusion is as good or better then anything on the market in it's segment, and no one makes a competitor to the Ranger.  I've rented an Edge before, and it's a pretty fine vehicle.  One I would consider if I was in the market.  Personally, I really like the Escape and I would take one over a CR-V without hesitating.

With the new Fusion, new Mustang, next Focus, next Taurus, next Explorer, etc. Ford is positioned to be very successful with their lineup in the next 3 years.  

[Speed_Racer]

Oh geez...sure that's not photoshopped? It's ridiculous!

[GoCougs]

Ford is positioned to be very successful with their lineup in the next 3 years.   

Maybe, but certainly not now. The real question is, Where will the competition be in MY 2012? May of the heavy hitters from Japan will be all-new models - Camry, Civic, Rav4, Altima, Tacoma, et al.

[GoCougs]

The last gen CTS went from 2003-2007 and the last gen Malibu went from 2004-2007.

The one I'm worried about is the Pontiac G6. Ever since they shelved the RWD replacement, it looks like the poor thing's going to be another GM zombie.

Touche, but Detroit falls profoundly short when it comes to matching the Japanese 5/6-year model lifespan.

[Soup DeVille]

Oh geez...sure that's not photoshopped? It's ridiculous!

Its the real deal.

[sportyaccordy]

I like the whale tail, I want one for my car

[ChrisV]

Absolutely. Japan has been on consistent five year stretches. Detroit? We'll see if the CTS, Malibu and other contenders linger for 8+ years, or are completely redesigned in five years. History unfortunately points to the former.

Yeah, that's why Porsche has failed so spectacularly.

True, some cars should be updated regularly. Some, however, have no need to. Hell, Detroit used to be the king of changing the cars every year. They stopped doing that when the import competition was on much longer design cycles (like the original Civic, going from '73-80)

[2o6]

Absolutely. Japan has been on consistent five year stretches. Detroit? We'll see if the CTS, Malibu and other contenders linger for 8+ years, or are completely redesigned in five years. History unfortunately points to the former.

And no, HEMI, Ford's lineup doesn't match the Japanese in total. The Focus, Taurus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, Ranger, certainly don't. Direct competitors to the Mustang, Flex, F-Super Duty, E-series, Japan simply doesn't make. There is parity with the Expedition, and maybe the Explorer, and the F-150 is much more successful, but that's about it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (To an extent) Granted, some cars had been going on for much too long (J-body, 1995 to 2005 with little modifications) but GM seems to have changed. All of their products introduced in maybe 2000 have gone for a 4-6 year model cycle.


For instance:

2002 - 2007 Saturn VUE, Facelift 2006
2003 - 2007 Cadillac CTS
2004 - 2007 Chevrolet malibu, 2006 facelift (aside from dowdy styling, it was not a bad car)
2000 - 2005 Chevrolet Impala
2005 - 2009 Chevrolet Equinox (This is it's final year of production)
1999 - 2004 Chevrolet Tracker
2005 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt (will be replaced w/ cruze)

[the Teuton]

Yeah, that's why Porsche has failed so spectacularly.

True, some cars should be updated regularly. Some, however, have no need to. Hell, Detroit used to be the king of changing the cars every year. They stopped doing that when the import competition was on much longer design cycles (like the original Civic, going from '73-80)

You forget that Porsche DID fail spectacularly, though.

[dazzleman]

That might be true of half of GM's lineup and almost all of Chrysler's, but Ford's lineup is nearly all there with the Japanese.  And in the next two to three years, I predict Ford's lineup will be one of, if not, the best lineup in the industry.

I hope you're right.  I'd be thrilled to see a US auto manufacturer kicking ass again, on their own merits.

[ifcar]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (To an extent) Granted, some cars had been going on for much too long (J-body, 1995 to 2005 with little modifications) but GM seems to have changed. All of their products introduced in maybe 2000 have gone for a 4-6 year model cycle.


For instance:

2002 - 2007 Saturn VUE, Facelift 2006
2003 - 2007 Cadillac CTS
2004 - 2007 Chevrolet malibu, 2006 facelift (aside from dowdy styling, it was not a bad car)
2000 - 2005 Chevrolet Impala
2005 - 2009 Chevrolet Equinox (This is it's final year of production)
1999 - 2004 Chevrolet Tracker
2005 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt (will be replaced w/ cruze)

That's all of their products?

[2o6]

That's all of their products?

Read my post.

[ifcar]

Read my post.

"All of their products introduced in maybe 2000 have gone for a 4-6 year model cycle."

That's obviously not true.

[GoCougs]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. (To an extent) Granted, some cars had been going on for much too long (J-body, 1995 to 2005 with little modifications) but GM seems to have changed. All of their products introduced in maybe 2000 have gone for a 4-6 year model cycle.


For instance:

2002 - 2007 Saturn VUE, Facelift 2006
2003 - 2007 Cadillac CTS
2004 - 2007 Chevrolet malibu, 2006 facelift (aside from dowdy styling, it was not a bad car)
2000 - 2005 Chevrolet Impala
2005 - 2009 Chevrolet Equinox (This is it's final year of production)
1999 - 2004 Chevrolet Tracker
2005 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt (will be replaced w/ cruze)

This is such a spectacularly small % of all models, and even then some are simply being discontinued...

[CJ]

Were American cars really that bad?  Oh hell yes.  We had a 1989 Pontiac Grand Am as our first 'family' car.  I remember that thing rattling to high heavens.  The crank windows broke, the engine drank oil towards the end of its 9 year life, and it didn't even have 100,000 miles.  It was a POS.