Chrysler puts a bullet in the PT Cruiser

[dazzleman]

So the original VWs were chick cars too?  

[ChrisV]

All you have to say is, "I don't like *insert car here*", and you feel the wrath of Chris.

Fuck you, you fucking moron. I've said time and time again that it isn't about merely disliking something. When are you going to get smart enough to figure out what it is actually about (which I've also stated time and time again?)

[dazzleman]

No, they've just got tired of fighting the ignorance for so long that they just joke about it. but I can guarantee you that people that say it to their faces don't get treated with any sort of respect afterward.

I built and drove cars like this for years:

it gets tiring, even if all you want to do is ignore the idiots. But when someone you respect says it?

You can't change the minds of non-car people. But car guys on car boards? That shit needs to stop.

You just have to face the fact that ignorance drives most of the decisions that are made in this world, including car buying decisions.  And images like the 'chick car' image are real, even if they're stupid, and they do affect sales.  Very people would admit that they buy a car with their image in mind, but for most people, if they were honest, it is a factor to one degree or another.

What pisses me off more is people who constantly speculate whether somebody is gay based on the sort of car they drive.  My cousin does this constantly.  I feel like screaming "WHO GIVES A FUCK?" at her.  I might make a joke or offhand comment in a generic way, but I'd never take that bullshit to a personal level.

[Tave]

No, they've just got tired of fighting the ignorance for so long that they just joke about it. but I can guarantee you that people that say it to their faces don't get treated with any sort of respect afterward.

Whether or not I treat someone with respect in real life has little if nothing to do with their opinions about cars, right or wrong.

[dazzleman]

Whether or not I treat someone with respect in real life has little if nothing to do with their opinions about cars, right or wrong.

[ChrisV]

Who cares? Up to a point, it's just not worth being bothered over what other people think. Especially over something so mundane as your choice of vehicle.

Let's say everywhere you go people walk up to you and insult you over whatever it is, your hair, your clothes, your girlfriend, your kid, whatever. If you're stoic enough to put up with that for years AND still think that those people are intelligent, then more power to you. But I can guarantee you it won't happen. You will NOT continue to smile and say "thank you very much for your opinion" after a fairly short while, if it is an unending parade of unsolicited insulting.

[ChrisV]

Whether or not I treat someone with respect in real life has little if nothing to do with their opinions about cars, right or wrong.

But in real life, how you treat them will be based on how they treat you. Cars or not. It'd be the same for any situation, especially in any subject you are interested in and have knowledge of. Here, we're on a car board. We're discussing knowledge of cars.

And do you treat 2o6 with respect about his opinions of, say, chinese cars? Don't be a fucking hypocrite.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You just have to face the fact that ignorance drives most of the decisions that are made in this world, including car buying decisions.  And images like the 'chick car' image are real, even if they're stupid, and they do affect sales.  Very people would admit that they buy a car with their image in mind, but for most people, if they were honest, it is a factor to one degree or another.

What pisses me off more is people who constantly speculate whether somebody is gay based on the sort of car they drive.  My cousin does this constantly.  I feel like screaming "WHO GIVES A FUCK?" at her.  I might make a joke or offhand comment in a generic way, but I'd never take that bullshit to a personal level.

I bought the Swift because I wanted people to think I was a whitetrash hippie, and I bought the Volvo because I wanted people to think I was a wannabe eurotrash snob that doesn't know how to use a condom.

[dazzleman]

I bought the Swift because I wanted people to think I was a whitetrash hippie, and I bought the Volvo because I wanted people to think I was a wannabe eurotrash snob that doesn't know how to use a condom.

Well, you succeeded.....

[dazzleman]

Let's say everywhere you go people walk up to you and insult you over whatever it is, your hair, your clothes, your girlfriend, your kid, whatever. If you're stoic enough to put up with that for years AND still think that those people are intelligent, then more power to you. But I can guarantee you it won't happen. You will NOT continue to smile and say "thank you very much for your opinion" after a fairly short while, if it is an unending parade of unsolicited insulting.

Is that what you experienced, driving a PT Cruiser?

[Tave]

Let's say everywhere you go people walk up to you and insult you over whatever it is, your hair, your clothes, your girlfriend, your kid, whatever. If you're stoic enough to put up with that for years AND still think that those people are intelligent, then more power to you. But I can guarantee you it won't happen. You will NOT continue to smile and say "thank you very much for your opinion" after a fairly short while, if it is an unending parade of unsolicited insulting.

Let's ask our Miata owners:


"Laconian, Chimp, Onslaught; do people insult you everywhere you go at every hour of the day for the type of car you drive?"

We'll have to wait for them to get back to us, but I can make an educated guess as to the answer...

[ChrisV]

So the original VWs were chick cars too?  

lol. Just like pink and light gray were as much male colors in the era that the bud vases became popular.

[dazzleman]

lol. Just like pink and light gray were as much male colors in the era that the bud vases became popular.

In that era, there was really no such thing as a 'chick car.'  Cars were marketed in a more generic way.  In any case, very few women back then bought cars independently, so cars were marketed primarily to men, even if a woman was to be the main driver.

[ChrisV]

Is that what you experienced, driving a PT Cruiser?

On car boards, just mentioning that I owned one, there would be a flood of unsolicited insults about how much crap the car was and how much of a chick car it was and that real men wouldn't be caught dead driving one. Same if anyone mentioned owning one. Same if anyone mentioned owning a Miata. Hell, I even got it with the Fiat in person and online. And yeah, I got it a LOT driving the classic air cooled VWs and MGs.

[Tave]

But in real life, how you treat them will be based on how they treat you. Cars or not. It'd be the same for any situation, especially in any subject you are interested in and have knowledge of. Here, we're on a car board. We're discussing knowledge of cars.

And do you treat 2o6 with respect about his opinions of, say, chinese cars? Don't be a fucking hypocrite.

Correct me if I'm wrong; you're asking me if my respect for someone is contingent on their intelligence?

[Eye of the Tiger]

On car boards, just mentioning that I owned one, there would be a flood of unsolicited insults about how much crap the car was and how much of a chick car it was and that real men wouldn't be caught dead driving one. Same if anyone mentioned owning one. Same if anyone mentioned owning a Miata. Hell, I even got it with the Fiat in person and online. And yeah, I got it a LOT driving the classic air cooled VWs and MGs.

If you're going to drive around in puny cars without V8's, you should work on being more stoic.

[dazzleman]

On car boards, just mentioning that I owned one, there would be a flood of unsolicited insults about how much crap the car was and how much of a chick car it was and that real men wouldn't be caught dead driving one. Same if anyone mentioned owning one. Same if anyone mentioned owning a Miata. Hell, I even got it with the Fiat in person and online. And yeah, I got it a LOT driving the classic air cooled VWs and MGs.

Well, that's stupid.  As I said, I made an offhand generic comment that I didn't really mean.  I never take that crap to a personal level, except as a joke, if I'm friendly enough with the person.

You can dish out crap about my car if you want.....

[ChrisV]

In that era, there was really no such thing as a 'chick car.'  Cars were marketed in a more generic way.  In any case, very few women back then bought cars independently, so cars were marketed primarily to men, even if a woman was to be the main driver.

yeah, the only real exception was the Dodge La Femme.

[dazzleman]

yeah, the only real exception was the Dodge La Femme.

Wow, that's pretty blatant.  I hope you don't mind if I call that a 'chick car.'  You don't own one, do you, man?   

[ChrisV]

Well, that's stupid.  As I said, I made an offhand generic comment that I didn't really mean.  I never take that crap to a personal level, except as a joke, if I'm friendly enough with the person.

You can dish out crap about my car if you want.....

See, that's just it. I never make negative comments about a person's choice in cars. Or clothes. Or houses. I might say I wouldn't do that, myself, or make comments on the quality of execution (and even then, it's a rare occurrence). I'll never be rude to start with. But I will answer rudeness with rudeness. (I didn't used to, but I've found that online rudeness never EVER responds to calm responses. And since no matter how much you want to, you can't call customers or coworkers idiots, this is a safe venue for calling out retarded statements).

[Vinsanity]

Let's ask our Miata owners:


"Laconian, Chimp, Onslaught; do people insult you everywhere you go at every hour of the day for the type of car you drive?"

We'll have to wait for them to get back to us, but I can make an educated guess as to the answer...

Actually, I did drive a red NA Miata for a short period of time right before the S2000, and there was this one woman at work who would constantly make fun about it. It got old really fast, just like any other case where someone repeats the same joke over and over at the expanse of another person. I made the mistake of getting into an argument about it once, saying that it was the best thing I could find for $2,000, but according to her, I apparently would have been better off in a Geo Metro/Hyundai Excel/insert random shitbox here.

Incidentally, she has no kids and drives a Suburban

[ChrisV]

Wow, that's pretty blatant.  I hope you don't mind if I call that a 'chick car.'  You don't own one, do you, man?  

It is the only car marketed AS a chick car, and it was done way before the feminist movement, so even though it was condescending, it wasn't actually rude for it's era. And I had the Custom Royal version of that car.Even if I owned one, it would not be rude to call it a chick car (but it's a valuable collector car now).

[dazzleman]

Actually, I did drive a red NA Miata for a short period of time right before the S2000, and there was this one woman at work who would constantly make fun about it. It got old really fast, just like any other case where someone repeats the same joke over and over at the expanse of another person. I made the mistake of getting into an argument about it once, saying that it was the best thing I could find for $2,000, but according to her, I apparently would have been better off in a Geo Metro/Hyundai Excel/insert random shitbox here.

Incidentally, she has no kids and drives a Suburban

Idiot.  When you're spending $2K for a car, you get what works.  You don't get picky at that price, in any event.

[dazzleman]

It is the only car marketed AS a chick car, and it was done way before the feminist movement, so even though it was condescending, it wasn't actually rude for it's era. And I had the Custom Royal version of that car.Even if I owned one, it would not be rude to call it a chick car (but it's a valuable collector car now).

The lavender really gives it away.  Man, I hate that color.

[the Teuton]

You can dish out crap about my car if you want.....

No, you really don't want me to do that.  I like the car, but I could talk enough trash on it that you might never want to drive it again.

[dazzleman]

See, that's just it. I never make negative comments about a person's choice in cars. Or clothes. Or houses. I might say I wouldn't do that, myself, or make comments on the quality of execution (and even then, it's a rare occurrence). I'll never be rude to start with. But I will answer rudeness with rudeness. (I didn't used to, but I've found that online rudeness never EVER responds to calm responses. And since no matter how much you want to, you can't call customers or coworkers idiots, this is a safe venue for calling out retarded statements).

My statement would only have been rude if I'd (a) known you had a PT Cruiser, and (b) insulted you directly about it.  Neither of those was the case.

[dazzleman]

No, you really don't want me to do that.  I like the car, but I could talk enough trash on it that you might never want to drive it again.

Nah, I drive it every day, while you drove a couple around a parking lot.  Whom do you think really knows more?

[ChrisV]

Correct me if I'm wrong; you're asking me if my respect for someone is contingent on their intelligence?

No, your respect for someone is contingent on their ability to be respectful to start with.

Also there is a difference between merely not knowing something, and being willfully ignorant, holding tightly to an opinion based on that ignorance (instead of learning from those who have knowledge of the subject) and using that opinion to be rude and insulting towards others, and then actively making sure you remain ignorant on the subject.

Let me give you an example: Les Vipers. Do you have any respect for him (do you even know of him from C&D?). Does anyone here have respect for him?

[2o6]

The PT shared 8 bolts with the Neon. No Neon, other than the SRT4, used the 2.4 liter engine. That was sourced from the stratus. The front suspension was from the 4 cyl minivan, and the rear suspension was unique to the PT, to get a low load floor. No internal or trim parts were Neon, either.

As for roomy, yes, it was. I carried 14 full size replacement windows for the house in the back with the hatch closed. I carried 1200lbs of bagged crushed rock and it didn't settle on the suspension one bit. I carried all the lumber for our deck project, as well as the 60 gallon stand up air compressor. I carried myself, my wife, 3 kids and all our camping gear with no problem. I had no issues with interior sizing, with more than enough shoulder room and legroom at all seating positions.

It is neon based. That's why it's called the PT (Platform Tall) Cruiser. The neon is on the PL (platform Low) platform.

[dazzleman]

No, your respect for someone is contingent on their ability to be respectful.

Also there is a difference between merely not knowing something, and being willfully ignorant, holding tightly to an opinion based on that ignorance (instead of learning from those who have knowledge of the subject) and using that opinion to be rude and insulting towards others, and then actively making sure you remain ignorant on the subject.

Let me give you an example: Les Vipers. Do you have any respect for him (do you even know of him from C&D?). Does anyone here have respect for him?

I certainly don't respect Les Vipers Rules.  But I don't think he'd know a car if got run over by one.  I have no idea why he even posted at a car forum.