Newb-aru questions... STi vs WRX

Started by r0tor, January 20, 2009, 05:26:30 PM

r0tor

So i've been researching the whole STi vs WRX thing trying to determine which is a better fit for my needs.... i'm calling on all subaru trolls to help me and correct me if I got my facts messed up.  I'm sorry, but my head got messed up trying to fathom those piston things and valves and cams... the insanity!!


Drivetrain...

From what I gather, engines are similar but the STi has dual variable valve timing vs the WRX single. The turbine on the WRX has been upsized to match the STi but the housing is still bigger on the STi.  The STi has limited slip diff's in the front are rear while the WRX does not.  The STi has the DCCD center diff that allows you to bias the diff from auto (35/65) to a locked 50/50.  Not sure what the WRX bias ratio is (50/50?).  The STi comes with SI Drive which alters the throttle mapping only.  The STi has a beefy 6 speed and the WRX a 5 speed thats referred to as "glass" more often then not.

Power to weight ratios are similar, acceleration times are similar, and the WRX squeaks and extra mpg or 2 out of the engine.


Suspension/Brakes...

Not aware of any big differences suspension wise except shocks/springs/sways.  The STi comes with some nice 4 pot bembos while the WRX does not.

Features/Options/Ect/....

The STi has the really nice widebody kit.  It also has HID lights and sporty alcantara leather seats.   The WRX has better options available like heated seats and mirrors and a sunroof.






...also 2009 WRX's seem to have a gigantic problem with connecting rod bearing failures in the first couple thousand miles...
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Eye of the Tiger

Isn't the 2009 WRX qucker than the STi? lawl, maybe.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

r0tor

to 60 yes because the STi has an extra gear change
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2009, 05:38:29 PM
to 60 yes because the STi has an extra gear change

Oh, one of those deals... but the WRX is $10k less. That's a good enough reason for me to go with it.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

Cookie Monster

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 05:41:41 PM
Oh, one of those deals... but the WRX is $10k less. That's a good enough reason for me to go with it.
Even with the weak transmission and the connecting rod failure? :mask:

For the money I'd rather have a used M3 or something.
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

Eye of the Tiger

So, the STi has 40 hp more, a 6-speed, that fancy rally racer AWD system, and some other doo-dads.
The WRX is as quick on dry pavement to a point, and it does have traction control to help in the slippery stuff. If you fancy yourself a rally driver, the STi can surely power through a drift quite a bit faster than a WRX; otherwise, I couldn't see myself paying $10k more. If it's all about the power, I'm sure the WRX would respond well to tinkering, and I"m sure it wouldn't cost $10k to surpass the STi's power.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

the Teuton

Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2009, 05:26:30 PM
So i've been researching the whole STi vs WRX thing trying to determine which is a better fit for my needs.... i'm calling on all subaru trolls to help me and correct me if I got my facts messed up.  I'm sorry, but my head got messed up trying to fathom those piston things and valves and cams... the insanity!!

I hope you're ready for all-weather fun and really shitty mileage.  Oh well, the second shouldn't be a deterrent, as you already own a rotary car.

Quote
Drivetrain...

From what I gather, engines are similar but the STi has dual variable valve timing vs the WRX single. The turbine on the WRX has been upsized to match the STi but the housing is still bigger on the STi.  The STi has limited slip diff's in the front are rear while the WRX does not.  The STi has the DCCD center diff that allows you to bias the diff from auto (35/65) to a locked 50/50.  Not sure what the WRX bias ratio is (50/50?).  The STi comes with SI Drive which alters the throttle mapping only.  The STi has a beefy 6 speed and the WRX a 5 speed thats referred to as "glass" more often then not.

Power to weight ratios are similar, acceleration times are similar, and the WRX squeaks and extra mpg or 2 out of the engine.

The WRX essentially has the same engine as the Legacy turbo.  It's essentially a carryover from the old car except different engine management, a bigger turbo, and a plastic intake manifold.  The EJ257 is also a carryover, but it's been bumped from 292 to 305 hp. 

The transmission is not meant to be a drag racer's wetdream.  Typically, those kinds of issues happen on abused 5-speeds.  If you don't act like Paul Walker, your sychros will like you much more.

The 6-speed is nearly indestructible, though.  One mag did hard launches with both cars (like 6,000 RPM drops) until the transmissions went out.  The WRX's tranny survived less than 10 launches.  The STI survived more than 30 in a row before it started showing wear.  We got a cheaper transmission than the Japanese for the WRX, and it shows.


QuoteSuspension/Brakes...

Not aware of any big differences suspension wise except shocks/springs/sways.  The STi comes with some nice 4 pot bembos while the WRX does not.

The STI has 4pot/2pots.  The WRX was downgraded from the last model to 2/1s, but it actually doesn't hurt performance as a daily driver too much.  Some people think both are too soft for autocross, or they roll too much compared to an Evo.  Either a WRX or STI will tear up an Evo on the dirt or mud, so it's not really the point of the Imp to be a street machine.  They make coilovers for that, if you want to pony up the extra money.

QuoteFeatures/Options/Ect/....

The STi has the really nice widebody kit.  It also has HID lights and sporty alcantara leather seats.   The WRX has better options available like heated seats and mirrors and a sunroof.

And both have sucktastic stereos.  Even the "premium" systems suck.





Quote
...also 2009 WRX's seem to have a gigantic problem with connecting rod bearing failures in the first couple thousand miles...

Have not heard about this, but the engine certainly isn't built to take the shit-beating like the STI.  Both are semi-closed deck blocks, so boosting the crap out of either of them isn't too advisable.

I really am a whore for these cars.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: thecarnut on January 20, 2009, 05:54:10 PM
Even with the weak transmission and the connecting rod failure? :mask:

For the money I'd rather have a used M3 or something.

Last time I checked, new Subarus have powertrain warranties. If this problem is as big as you guys say it is, they may already have fixed it.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

the Teuton

Also, compared to, say Mitsubishi dealers, Subaru service people will cover a lot more under warranty.  Consider that.

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 05:55:23 PM
So, the STi has 40 hp more, a 6-speed, that fancy rally racer AWD system, and some other doo-dads.
The WRX is as quick on dry pavement to a point, and it does have traction control to help in the slippery stuff. If you fancy yourself a rally driver, the STi can surely power through a drift quite a bit faster than a WRX; otherwise, I couldn't see myself paying $10k more. If it's all about the power, I'm sure the WRX would respond well to tinkering, and I"m sure it wouldn't cost $10k to surpass the STi's power.

The shell is stiffer, the car comes with better tires, better brakes, better seats, a better transmission, and just about everything else better than the standard WRX.  Neither of these cars are drag racers, though.  The STI is slower because of the LSDs and the shorter first gear.  Otherwise, the STI rapes it.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Cookie Monster

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 05:58:46 PM
Last time I checked, new Subarus have powertrain warranties. If this problem is as big as you guys say it is, they may already have fixed it.
Does Subaru still honor the cars warranty even if it has been autocrossed?

And I'd probably get a used STI over a new WRX, and although I really really like the new STI and its widebody kit, it's too expensive.
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

r0tor

#10
Quote from: the Teuton on January 20, 2009, 05:57:59 PM
Have not heard about this, but the engine certainly isn't built to take the shit-beating like the STI.  Both are semi-closed deck blocks, so boosting the crap out of either of them isn't too advisable.


some scary shit.... maybes the 13B look like a model citizen for reliability  :mask:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1661872
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1648372
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

MX793

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 05:58:46 PM
Last time I checked, new Subarus have powertrain warranties. If this problem is as big as you guys say it is, they may already have fixed it.

The tranny has been strengthened since the '02 cars (which were known to be pretty frail and intolerant to big bumps in power and/or regular hard shifts).  Still not as stout as the 6 spd, but not as fragile as they were.  It's not like they're failing left and right in normal use.

I also have not heard of the con-rod issues.  Makes me wonder if they simply got a bad batch of parts from their suppliers since this engine is not new and I haven't heard horror stories about turbo Legacies eating bearings (not that I follow them all that closely).
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: thecarnut on January 20, 2009, 06:04:03 PM
Does Subaru still honor the cars warranty even if it has been autocrossed?

And I'd probably get a used STI over a new WRX, and although I really really like the new STI and its widebody kit, it's too expensive.

Didn't the purchase of a WRX used to come with an SCCA membership? EVO owners were the ones getting fucked out of their warranties because they autocrossed.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

the Teuton

Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2009, 06:04:56 PM
some scary shit.... maybes the 13B look like a model citizen for reliability  :mask:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1661872
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1648372


Oh, that's why.  I don't hang around Nazicock too much.  I go to older Subie websites.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: the Teuton on January 20, 2009, 06:01:55 PM
Also, compared to, say Mitsubishi dealers, Subaru service people will cover a lot more under warranty.  Consider that.

The shell is stiffer, the car comes with better tires, better brakes, better seats, a better transmission, and just about everything else better than the standard WRX.  Neither of these cars are drag racers, though.  The STI is slower because of the LSDs and the shorter first gear.  Otherwise, the STI rapes it.

The question is: WHAT ARE r0tor's "NEEDS"?
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

r0tor

Quote from: the Teuton on January 20, 2009, 06:08:20 PM
Oh, that's why.  I don't hang around Nazicock too much.  I go to older Subie websites.

what are some better sites... i don't like their layout at all
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

the Teuton

Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2009, 06:09:36 PM
what are some better sites... i don't like their layout at all

For new Subes, Nazicock is unfortunately the best.

The one I use, RS25.com, is more for the GC/GM/GF bodystyle, but there are people on there with newer cars.  It's a lot more technical because older owners actually play with their cars rather than using them as whipping tools to denigrate the owners of "lesser" Imprezas.

I guess the best question is the one Nick asked:  What are your needs?
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

r0tor

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 06:08:50 PM
The question is: WHAT ARE r0tor's "NEEDS"?

something that is good in the twisties (won't match the 8 I already know with pretty much any car i choose), at least comparable as the 8 is in a straight line, seats 4, not FWD, under $40k, engine won't go BOOOM!!! if i look at it wrong, and gets not hideous gas mileage... AWD is a bonus do to my ass driving to work in snow and my job never closing (i even have a card that lets me drive to work on snow emergency days)

...the US spec STi pisses me off though cause I really wanted heated seats/mirrors and a sunroof... bah, my butt is use to warmth on cold ass mornings
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

the Teuton

Have you thought about buying a used 2007 STi Limited?
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

r0tor

I sat in one at the NYAS and liked the STi Limited... will keep in mind but I doubt I will find one
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

the Teuton

I just checked Bethlehem Autotrader.  There's one on there.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Eye of the Tiger

I
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2009, 06:14:33 PM
something that is good in the twisties (won't match the 8 I already know with pretty much any car i choose), at least comparable as the 8 is in a straight line, seats 4, not FWD, under $40k, engine won't go BOOOM!!! if i look at it wrong, and gets not hideous gas mileage... AWD is a bonus do to my ass driving to work in snow and my job never closing (i even have a card that lets me drive to work on snow emergency days)

...the US spec STi pisses me off though cause I really wanted heated seats/mirrors and a sunroof... bah, my butt is use to warmth on cold ass mornings

Is the 2009 STi any different from the 2008?

This test driver was not particularly impressed:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iLH7X84rm48

He chose the EVO X over the STi, even though he seemed to have some trouble with it.:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BZPB4aSyq40

lol, my VOlvo has heated seats, mirrors and sunroof. I'll sell it to you for less than an STi... $33k?
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

r0tor

i'm not looking for a track car so super stiff is not something i really care about... and if i wanted a super stiff ride springs are a couple hundred bucks.  The RX-8 is a softy.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

the Teuton

2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2009, 06:33:13 PM
i'm not looking for a track car so super stiff is not something i really care about... and if i wanted a super stiff ride springs are a couple hundred bucks.  The RX-8 is a softy.

People complain that the WRX and STi are too soft, so there you go. That doesn't help you at all. :ohyeah:
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES


the Teuton

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 06:37:48 PM
Do they realize that the 2009 model is only $2000 more than that?

The car should be $27k or less, to be honest.  But it's there.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Eye of the Tiger

2009 Audi A4's start at $31k with the 211 hp 2.0 turbo, and a 6 speed manual is an option if you don't want the CVT. That might be more in line with what you are looking for, r0tor. I'm sure it comes standard with heated seats.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

Eye of the Tiger

I lied, heated seats are a $450 option, but heated mirrors and sunroof are standard.
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

MX793

Quote from: NACar on January 20, 2009, 06:50:16 PM
2009 Audi A4's start at $31k with the 211 hp 2.0 turbo, and a 6 speed manual is an option if you don't want the CVT. That might be more in line with what you are looking for, r0tor. I'm sure it comes standard with heated seats.

Actually, I'm pretty sure heated seats are not standard on the A4.  Not only that, but I'm sure checking the "heated seats" option box requires you get several other options as well (typical Audi pricing, there's no such thing as a stand-alone option).
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5