boo hoo

[Vinsanity]

End of the line for four generations at GM?

I don't know if it was the intention of the writer, but I couldn't manage to conjure up any sympathy for these guys. I sure as hell didn't make $37k in 9 months straight out of high school; I barely made that much straight out of college in a high COL area. Time to move on, fellas.

It's somewhat of an interesting read, and although there's no news here we haven't already discussed here, the old man does make a good point:

"They say, 'You built gas guzzlers,'" Green says. "But that's what people wanted." (He also points out that GM built many fuel-efficient cars.)

The only problem here is that thanks to the union agreements these guys once enjoyed, the profit margin on GM's fuel efficient cars are a mere pittance, and before the Cobalt, was an embarrassment to the product line.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The state that US manufacturers are in is really sad. While I agree with the statement about Americans who will "wave the flag but won't purchase an American car" in the end the big 3 have no one to blame but themselves.  

[YO]

where's the naked chicks??

[the Teuton]

$37k/year is an awful lot to bring in for 9 months with no education and no unique skills...except for the ability to bitch really loud at UAW meetings.

If life were really that simple, I'm not sure I'd be going to college right now, either.  Fortunately for me, it isn't.

[Vinsanity]

The state that US manufacturers are in is really sad. While I agree with the statement about Americans who will "wave the flag but won't purchase an American car" in the end the big 3 have no one to blame but themselves.  

while there are plenty of American cars that are better than the average buyer gives them credit for, patriotism doesn't preclude the freedom to spend your money as you wish.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

while there are plenty of American cars that are better than the average buyer gives them credit for, patriotism doesn't preclude the freedom to spend your money as you wish.

I agree with you 100%.

[GoCougs]

"There's enough blame to go around," the 73-year-old Green says slowly, choosing his words carefully. "The quality dropped. We lost the loyalty of the customers. They stand for the national anthem, but they're not as patriotic as they should be. A lot of people will wave the flag ... but not buy an American-made car. If they can save 2 cents on an item made in China, they'll save that 2 cents."

Too funny.

[the Teuton]

They don't seem to get it that by coming in on Monday with a hangover and leaving early on Friday, it is their quality of practices that put them down a bad road.

Had I purchased a 1993 Cavalier, it probably wouldn't be roadworthy.

American companies did it to themselves.

[280Z Turbo]

GM offers more models with 30 mpg than anybody else because they rebage more than anybody else.

[hotrodalex]

"There's enough blame to go around," the 73-year-old Green says slowly, choosing his words carefully. "The quality dropped. We lost the loyalty of the customers. They stand for the national anthem, but they're not as patriotic as they should be. A lot of people will wave the flag ... but not buy an American-made car. If they can save 2 cents on an item made in China, they'll save that 2 cents."

Too funny.

I found it funny too. If I can get a better product for less money, why in the world wouldn't I?

I shouldn't have to make a dumb decision just to be patriotic.

[Payman]

"There's enough blame to go around," the 73-year-old Green says slowly, choosing his words carefully. "The quality dropped. We lost the loyalty of the customers. They stand for the national anthem, but they're not as patriotic as they should be. A lot of people will wave the flag ... but not buy an American-made car. If they can save 2 cents on an item made in China, they'll save that 2 cents."

Too funny.

How many cars in the top 10 are North American made? I'd wager ALL of them.

[AutobahnSHO]

How many cars in the top 10 are North American made? I'd wager ALL of them.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/best_worst_lists/2009_10best_cars_10best_cars
2009 BMW 3-series / M3
2009 Cadillac CTS / CTS-V
2009 Chevrolet Corvette
2009 Honda Accord
2009 Honda Fit
2009 Infiniti G37
2009 Jaguar XF
2008 Mazda MX-5 Miata
2009 Porsche Boxster and Cayman
2009 Volkswagen GTI

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I think he was talking about top 10 in SALES.

Which does have a healthy amount of U.S. products in it. Taking alittle wind out of the claim that the consumer is to blame.

Actually the above statement says alot, let me break it down.

"There's enough blame to go around," the 73-year-old Green says slowly, choosing his words carefully. "The quality dropped. We lost the loyalty of the customers. They stand for the national anthem, but they're not as patriotic as they should be. A lot of people will wave the flag ... but not buy an American-made car. If they can save 2 cents on an item made in China, they'll save that 2 cents."


"The quality dropped" = basically we just stopped giving a shit and hacking things together

'We lost the loyalty of the customers" = see above, nobody wants to knowingly buy junk.

"They stand for the national anthem, but they're not as patriotic as they should be. A lot of people will wave the flag ... but not buy an American-made car" =
We made junk, they stopped buying it. We(his generation) didn't fight a world war so you can be free to not buy the shitty piece of junk we expected you to buy.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

GM (corporate and fans) can't seem to grasp this reality. They woot and cheer and point at the FEW BRAND NEW desirable products they have, only half of which are ACTUALLY FOR SALE. Failing to grasp how 20 years of alienating and abusing the faith and yes patriotism of the customer could still be affecting sales today. The abusive drunk husband analogy has been used many many times to explain GM, and for good reason. There is possibly no better illustration than a drunk abusive husband beating his wife for 20 years only to have her leave for the loving and caring man down the street. After 20 years of his love and compassion without so much as raising his voice at her she is now expected to walk out on him and go back to husband #1 because "he's changed".

Now add to the above problem GM's absolutely horrible financial situation and you have a company that contiues to amaze people. Amaze them in the sense that they are still even in business. My father is a GM man, i grew up with GM's. I've owned a few and they weren't heaping piles of trash like many believe or recall as they think back upon past ownership. For many it was a long time ago and maybe the problems get exagerated over time. I can tell you that although my stuff was fine there were some VERY obvious areas of low quality. I NEVER owned a GM that didn't go through atleast 1 alternator. Now this isn't a big deal, it isn't like the motor blew up. However out of every one that had a alternator fail NOT ONE ILLUMINATED THE CHARGE LAMP. That's right, every one left me on the side of the road. Hell of a way to find out when the alternator died. This happened across a decade worth of models, and cars from all platform familes and engine familes. I had other problems but this was by far just the stupidest damn thing ever. After leaving GM(and just experiencing cars in general) i've had ONE alternator go. The moment it popped the dash light came on. Giving me plenty of time to drive 45 miles home and park the car.

It's going to take alot of time for people to come back, one or two hits isn't whats need. That is just the start, another decade of solid class leading(or right at the top) cars in EVERY segment is what is needed to undo the decades of botched consumer confidence that has brought you to where you are today. Good luck, even though i'm gone(for the time being) i'm still watching, waiting and rooting. Alot of people are, and that is more loyalty than 90% of any other company would get.

[2o6]

GM wasn't that bad. Their Truck and niche vehicles are superb. Their bread and butter is where they fail. (Compact, Midsizers, Full Sizers, other "regular" cars) Mismanagement and bean counters also didn't help. I have a question: If they were selling a 20 year old platform (Cavalier, and others) with little mechnical changes, and sales were actually quite good (for instance, the Cavalier was 3rd in sales) where did the money go? It shouldn't cost that much to sell an old car. Where did the money go?

[giant_mtb]

GM wasn't that bad. Their Truck and niche vehicles are superb. Their bread and butter is where they fail. (Compact, Midsizers, Full Sizers, other "regular" cars) Mismanagement and bean counters also didn't help. I have a question: If they were selling a 20 year old platform (Cavalier, and others) with little mechnical changes, and sales were actually quite good (for instance, the Cavalier was 3rd in sales) where did the money go? It shouldn't cost that much to sell an old car. Where did the money go?

Uh, to those uneducated assembly line workers making 30+ grand their first year out of high school?

[2o6]

Uh, to those uneducated assembly line workers making 30+ grand their first year out of high school?

37K in Nine months is outrageous.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

GM wasn't that bad. Their Truck and niche vehicles are superb. Their bread and butter is where they fail. (Compact, Midsizers, Full Sizers, other "regular" cars) Mismanagement and bean counters also didn't help. I have a question: If they were selling a 20 year old platform (Cavalier, and others) with little mechnical changes, and sales were actually quite good (for instance, the Cavalier was 3rd in sales) where did the money go? It shouldn't cost that much to sell an old car. Where did the money go?

It is amazing isn't it.

Operating ineffiency, high wages, even higher benefits, UAW "hostage" demands and in general just poor use of capital(How's that northstar replacement coming? 90% done you say. Whats that, lets cancel it).

Once again gm sets out to blow people away.  I'm blown away they still are in business, though technically they are bunkrupt but the feds are going to take them over.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

It's worker abuse, plain and simple. It also seems to be what happens to the government when it comes to purchasing contracts. Items all of a sudden seemed to be marked up several thousands of a percent because they can't catch it. The UAW doesn't hide it and GM knows it, but at the time it was make no money(strike) or give us what we want.

[Soup DeVille]

37K in Nine months is outrageous.

Not really, not when you consider that a lot of that is overtime and that number is pretax (I think). its actually one of the more reasonable wages I've heard.

[MX793]

Not really, not when you consider that a lot of that is overtime and that number is pretax (I think). its actually one of the more reasonable wages I've heard.

Reasonable for the UAW, maybe.  Keep in mind this guy is fresh out of high school with zero experience (well, 9 months of experience now).  If he averaged 45 hours a week, that puts his base wage at $21 and hour and his base annual pay at roughly $43,700 (and then toss in the killer benefits package on top of that).  That's more than what an entry level engineer fresh out of school would make at NASA in their first year, and potentially in their second.

[Soup DeVille]

Reasonable for the UAW, maybe.  Keep in mind this guy is fresh out of high school with zero experience (well, 9 months of experience now).  If he averaged 45 hours a week, that puts his base wage at $21 and hour and his base annual pay at roughly $43,700 (and then toss in the killer benefits package on top of that).  That's more than what an entry level engineer fresh out of school would make at NASA in their first year, and potentially in their second.

He probably averaged more like 50-60 hours/week. Granted, its a well-above-average wage for what he was likely required to do, I won't argue that: but it is a lot better than some of the other wages people have made for the same work.

[Nethead]

'Sad tale...

The factory where my late father worked 51 years full-time and about 6 or more years seasonally after retirement has been shut down for about a decade now--opening and closing off and on but never anything as close to operating as successfully as it had operated in its heyday in the late 'Fifties.  Except for action in the Pacific--Guadalcanal to The Occupation of Japan--Dad never really considered working anywhere else.  He didn't have a lot of options--he left school in the seventh grade to become a lumberjack to help feed himself and his brothers and sisters.  The street in front of the family home used to be busy from a little after 6 AM until after the 11 PM shift change M-F (and sometimes Saturdays).  Today, you could lie down in that street for twenty minutes and hardly be endangering yourself--maybe a stray might hike his leg and hose you down, but that's about it...The homes in the neighborhood are either occupied by elderly widows, empty, or housing non-English-speaking itinerant laborers who move on without fanfare once word comes of jobs in some distant town. 

It saddens me to return to the old hometown, which was a great place to live once upon a time.  I hope my children and first grandchild never have to live in a town that's dying.  It hurts too much to see...