Hot Hatches Past and Present

[Raza]

2000 STi wagon, thanks.

That's not a hatch, it's a wagon.

[the Teuton]

That's not a hatch, it's a wagon.

It really depends on your definition and subjectivity.  My mom calls my car a hatch; I call it a wagon.

But the new STI is a hatch, right?

[Cobra93]

Nice beard!  Is that you?

25 years ago.

[Raza]

25 years ago.

Cool.  Nice GTI too.

[Raza]

It really depends on your definition and subjectivity.  My mom calls my car a hatch; I call it a wagon.

But the new STI is a hatch, right?

I'm usually the type to get into really heated semantic arguments, but I'm not too sure about it this time.  I know that when I look at a wagon, I know what it is, and when I look at a hatch, I know what it is.  I think it comes down to a D pillar, right? 



You have the A, B, and C pillars, and then the upright edge of the glass is considered the D pillar, isn't it?  So that makes it a wago.



Since this car's C pillar is basically the end of the profile, it's a hatch.



Now this car blurs the lines, since many consider it a hatch, but it seems to have four pillars and a traditional wagon shape. 

[SVT666]

Now this car blurs the lines, since many consider it a hatch, but it seems to have four pillars and a traditional wagon shape. 

What about the 5 door SVT Focus?  It's got a D-pillar.

[Raza]

What about the 5 door SVT Focus?  It's got a D-pillar.

Interesting.  See what I'm saying?  I look at the Focus and think automatically "hatch", even though it does have a D pillar.  So the D pillar can't be the only qualifier.  I'm not an authority on this, so anyone around can feel free to enlighten me.  I'm not trying to sound condescending (it's probably pretty bad when I think I sound condescending when I'm just trying to be honest), even though it might come off that way.

Let's try comparing the ZX5 to the ZXW and see what conclusions can be drawn from that.





Actually, in that profile shot, the ZX5 does look a little wagon-like.  I guess the biggest difference is that the glass aft the C pillar is far larger and rectangular, and the D pillar is much more upright than on the ZX5.  The D pillar is nearly a 90 degree angle to the shoulder. 

The ZX5's rearmost window is triangular and small, and the D pillar is cut at a much steeper angle. 

I think what we're seeing most is a single car design being stretched to four different bodystyles, resulting in some odd angles.

[SVT666]

The wagon's rear overhang is quite a bit larger.

[Raza]

The wagon's rear overhang is quite a bit larger.

Yeah, and the bottom plane of the wagon's bumper appears more parallel with the ground, as opposed to the ZX5's, which appears to curve upwards.

[SVT666]

Yeah, and the bottom plane of the wagon's bumper appears more parallel with the ground, as opposed to the ZX5's, which appears to curve upwards.

Since I look at it every day, the ZX5 rear overhang is a lot smaller then it looks in your picture.

[the Teuton]

See, I think my car and any Impreza with a liftgate made before the 2008 model year is a wagon.  But the mom calls it a hatchback.

So now I have created a semantics clusterfuck.

[Raza]

Since I look at it every day, the ZX5 rear overhang is a lot smaller then it looks in your picture.

The angle of the picture seems to blend the end of the profile with the edge of the rear fascia, that's true.

[SVT666]

The angle of the picture seems to blend the end of the profile with the edge of the rear fascia, that's true.

See, if you look at the picture of my car, the rear end looks tighter and shorter then the ZX5 you posted, even though it isn't.  My picture is much more representative of how it really is.

[omicron]

In much the same way as the difference between liftbacks and hatchbacks can be a few degrees of rake, so too can the difference between hatchbacks and station wagons. Generally speaking, a station wagon will have a deep, upright rear door to allow for a full-height roofline right to the back of the car and side windows to the cargo area, often in conjunction with an extended rear overhang or wheelbase to allow for these side windows. A hatchback has a sharper angle to its rear door, has shorter rear overhang, and doesn't always have side windows to the cargo area.

Of course, there are times when the distinction is probably more a relative judgement than an absolute one - the wagon of a given range will probably be longer, taller, and have a more upright rear door extending lower down than the hatchback, but not by any standardised percentage increase beyond which the definition officially changes.

And of course, there are little curve-balls like the Impreza.



I'd err towards station wagon in this instance because of the clearer distinction between C and D pillars brought on by a full-height roofline right to the back of the car, a deeper and more upright rear door, and proper side windows to the cargo area.



And here, a hatchback; a roofline that more obviously tapers off at the rear of the car, a more sharply-angled and shallower rear door, a less-clear distinction between the C and D pillars, and limited side windows to the cargo area.

If measured carefully, mind you, the differences would probably be quite small on paper, hence:

I'm not too sure about it this time.  I know that when I look at a wagon, I know what it is, and when I look at a hatch, I know what it is. 

[ChrisV]

And, of course, it's going to necessarily be harder to tell on small cars where the total size and proportion difference will be necessarily small to begin with. Much easier to tell on a larger car.

[omicron]

And, of course, it's going to necessarily be harder to tell on small cars where the total size and proportion difference will be necessarily small to begin with. Much easier to tell on a larger car.

I knew there was a a good reason to bring back full-size station wagons! Thank you.

[the Teuton]

Let's look at the Lancer:



^^^Most definitely a wagon.



Most definitely a hatchback.

Why does Subaru have to be so difficult?

I'll just take a Cosworth Sierra.  I didn't know it was going to be this difficult.

[Cobra93]

Cool.  Nice GTI too.

That was the first GTI in the Memphis area. I originally wanted black but decided I really liked the white. When I read that VW was going to start selling the GTI here, I called the local dealer and bought it before it came in. It was my first new car. That thing was an absolute blast to drive. Wish I had it back. 

[CALL_911]

Damn, Cobra, that GTI's sick.

[Cobra93]

Damn, Cobra, that GTI's sick.

After my last post, I got on eBay and started looking. I may end up with another one. 

[CALL_911]

After my last post, I got on eBay and started looking. I may end up with another one. 

[r0tor]

[2o6]

Marketed as a coupe, so no.

[r0tor]

its clearly a damn hatchback.... don't be hatin' cause it doesn't look like a retarded wagon

[CALL_911]

[2o6]

Marketed as a coupe. Even if it has a liftback, it's technically not a hatch.

[r0tor]

[2o6]

Once again, a coupe.

[CALL_911]

[Eye of the Tiger]

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