Didn't see this one coming... (GM wants more)

[SVT666]

I don't know, I still think GM has the best products of the Big 3.

I don't know about that.

[TBR]

I don't know about that.

I think it is a relatively mixed bag. With the new Lacrosse Buick trumps Lincoln (and Cadillac has for years), but I think Ford's mainstream line-up is better.

[the Teuton]

I'm a little surprised Mitt Romney wasn't even considered for the task force Obama assembled, even though it's clear he might have the best idea how the American auto industry works this side of Lee Iacocca.

[cozmik]

And that demonstrates the importance of upper management and is why it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that Mullally should be making $0.

Why's that? Was he not in charge when they had to do that? (I honestly don't know)

[TBR]

Why's that? Was he not in charge when they had to do that? (I honestly don't know)

That was within the first few months of his reign.

What I am saying is he recognized there was a problem and took action to correct it while GM just twiddled their thumbs.

[cozmik]

That was within the first few months of his reign.

What I am saying is he recognized there was a problem and took action to correct it while GM just twiddled their thumbs.

They were literally running out of cash, GM was not at the time. If Ford had not done they, they would have been bankrupt then. GM was doing alright at the moment. Not great, but not borderline like Ford was.

[ChrisV]

That's 'cause GM was still selling trucks and Escalades like there was no tomorrow. Unfortunately, there WAS a tomorrow. Ford fixed it without going bankrupt BEFORE the shit hit the fan, and GM is now paying for twiddling their thumbs thinking everything was a-ok.

And sorry, but bailing them out just to have them still go bankrupt is just stupid. Let them go bankrupt, restructure, and see if they can figure it out on their own with no government (taxpayer) money.

[cozmik]

That's 'cause GM was still selling trucks and Escalades like there was no tomorrow. Unfortunately, there WAS a tomorrow. Ford fixed it without going bankrupt BEFORE the shit hit the fan, and GM is now paying for twiddling their thumbs thinking everything was a-ok.

And sorry, but bailing them out just to have them still go bankrupt is just stupid. Let them go bankrupt, restructure, and see if they can figure it out on their own with no government (taxpayer) money.

Ford was selling all the 'Navigators and F150s they could too. And they were still running out of money. Ford didn't have any great foresight, they had an immediate need of money to continue. And Ford still hasn't fixed it, they aren't profitable, they're still drawing on the lines of credit they got. They just got them when banks were still lending.

[ChrisV]

Ford was selling all the 'Navigators and F150s they could too. And they were still running out of money. Ford didn't have any great foresight, they had an immediate need of money to continue. And Ford still hasn't fixed it, they aren't profitable, they're still drawing on the lines of credit they got. They just got them when banks were still lending.

The point was, Ford (well, Mullaly) saw that writing and moved to change it while they still could. GM didn't. Ford is on the turnround, and GM is on the ropes.

[cozmik]

The point was, Ford (well, Mullaly) saw that writing and moved to change it while they still could. GM didn't. Ford is on the turnround, and GM is on the ropes.

The writing that they had insufficient liquidity to continue and had no choice but to get extra financing or face bankruptcy? Yeah, that's exactly what GM is doing now, except GM couldn't get the financing Ford did because it happened to GM after the financial market crashed.

[Vinsanity]

I think it is a relatively mixed bag. With the new Lacrosse Buick trumps Lincoln (and Cadillac has for years), but I think Ford's mainstream line-up is better.

Agree 100%. Ford's mainstream cars are great, but they don't make good Lincolns; Caddy's Sigma architecture is far superior. GM's mainstreamers are okay; they're making slow progress with each iterarion of the Epsilon platform.

[ChrisV]

The writing that they had insufficient liquidity to continue and had no choice but to get extra financing or face bankruptcy? Yeah, that's exactly what GM is doing now, except GM couldn't get the financing Ford did because it happened to GM after the financial market crashed.

The writing was on the wall for both of them at the same time. GM waited until now to heed the warnings. Simply put, Ford fixed the problem on their own when the fix was available, and GM waited until it was too late. Just because Ford was just as bad off doesn't change that fact. Which one is asking for a taxpayer handout, and which is taking care of their own shit?

[cozmik]

The writing was on the wall for both of them at the same time. GM waited until now to heed the warnings. Simply put, Ford fixed the problem on their own when the fix was available, and GM waited until it was too late. Just because Ford was just as bad off doesn't change that fact. Which one is asking for a taxpayer handout, and which is taking care of their own shit?

There was no writing on the wall the economy was going to get shot to Hell like it has. GM at the time didn't need a bail out or massive loan, and had the economy not crashed, they probably would not have. Ford is taking care of their shit out of freak luck and nothing more. The only reason they took out the loans and put the Ford name up as collateral is because they had to, right then and there, to remain solvent. They were forced to do so, they waited until the last minute just like GM did. It just happens banks were giving credit at the time. Did you miss that whole thing and the reasoning why Ford did what it did? Ford was where GM is now, from a financial standpoint, just a year or two sooner. And even then, most analysts seems to agree that unless something changes, Ford too, will need money this year. Ford still has a problem.